Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I cant believe they allowed cameras inside the Maui courtroom. If they broadcast the entire thing I would watch it. Anybody know if the entire trial is being aired anywhere? da kine C-span?

[GregLee]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I don't condone the intimidation of the ferry passengers, but if he and other individual citizens want to wave signs at HSF when it enters Nawiliwili Harbor again, I say it's his right, so long as he obeys the laws.

You are clearly not paying attention. See my post #516, where Dennis Chun of KCC clearly said that not only did he approve of breaking laws, he was encouraging everyone to continue doing it.

Advocating breaking the law is not the same as breaking the law. You just need to read all the words and concentrate.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Advocating breaking the law is not the same as breaking the law. You just need to read all the words and concentrate.

No, YOU need to "read all the words and concentrate" yourself. Nowhere did I say that Dennis Chun was "breaking the law" but what I did say was that he, a publicly identified teacher at KCC, was encouraging his students to break the law and that he therefore should be immediately removed from his position.
Any other misinterpretations you need help with this morning?

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Never mind, I read some later posts.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

There is now a Hilo attorney requesting that the Coast Guard repeal its latest security zone ruling in Nawiliwili Harbor. Here is the official docket along with statements from concerned citizens.

Miulang

[acousticlady]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I agree that Dennis Chun and all of the protesters stepped over the line. But particularly Dennis Chun. As a faculty member of a college (public or private) he is held responsible for his actions inside and outside school. We have a whole section in the faculty handbook on this. When you are hired by a college or university, you are representing them at all times. They call it social integrity. Schools are very picky about reputation. I'll bet he does get fired. I believe this is grounds for dismissal even if he had tenure (which as an instructor, he doesn't).

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The KITV story says nothing about his being a teacher at KCC. Therefore, I believe he was exercising his rights as an American citizen to protest against something that he believes is not right. He isn't representing KCC. It would have been another story if that KITV story identified him as a teacher at KCC, representing KCC. And if he wasn't doing it as an individual citizen, then he was either part of Hui-R, 1000 Friends of Kauai, the Sierra Club, or the Kingdom of Atooi, all of whom had people representing those organizations at the protests in Nawiliwili.

I don't condone the intimidation of the ferry passengers, but if he and other individual citizens want to wave signs at HSF when it enters Nawiliwili Harbor again, I say it's his right, so long as he obeys the laws. It was also pointed out by numerous bloggers that the people who snatched up those $5 fares that HSF was offering due to the misinterpretation of the laws were also displaying a form of protest (they, in effect, were kinda breaking the law, too, when HSF decided to start service early).

Miulang

Surely, you jest. 1) This teacher was exercising his right to protest on our nickels. Who do you think pays his salary? Every single taxpayer in Hawaii, that's who. If he was protesting as a private citizen, why did he identify himself as an instructor at KCC (and not a very bright one, at that, or he would not have revealed that information, or he would have exercised better judgement and now shown up for the protest). He had choices. 2) I don't know if the teacher is a member of any of the groups you mentioned; do you? Tell me how that changes him being an instructor, encouraging others to harass fellow citizens of this state? 3) Those 500+ passengers didn't "snatch" anything. They took advantage of an incredible deal and an incredible opportunity, and 80% of them turned right around and returned to Honolulu. You say they "kinda broke the law?" Is that like being kinda pregnant? Since when does purchasing something at a sale price qualify as breaking the law? What law did they break, and what punishment do you think would be fair? 4) HSF started their service early. Do you think for one minute they started service early without checking the legal ramifications of doing so? I don't believe any of the recent legal mumbo-jumbo relates at all to the date they started service; it just pissed-off some Maui and Kauai folks who don't want Oahu residents near their naupaka!

After LikaNui called my attention to KITV's newscast (NOT the article you and I read on their website), I got really steamed; then I got more and more steamed, and now I'm shaking my head and wondering what it is you don't get? Why are you so against HSF providing an alternate means of travel for the people of Hawaii and our visitors? Your posts are anti-HSF...clearly, and it makes no sense to me. Do you want to see HSF fail? If so, why? If not, why are you so negative about it?

I hope the teacher gets fired because he deserves to be. I've been debating all day about making some phone calls to try to get the arrogant toad nailed to the wall...complete with dunce cap properly in place.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I think we've hashed out the issues of teachers personal views on hot topics and their position as educators regarding drug testing teachers in our public schools...Scriv care to elaborate?

[glossyp]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I think we've hashed out the issues of teachers personal views on hot topics and their position as educators regarding drug testing teachers in our public schools...Scriv care to elaborate?

Now there's a real stretch. What exactly does that have to do with the HSF? I don't recall any teachers advocating civil disobedience and law breaking.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

nothing to do with HSF. But because this person was an educator and a protester it was suggested that this person be fired? Because he'd be setting a bad example as Acousticlady suggested.

We covered this personal views vs role as an educator in another thread regarding drug testing. I took the high road and was chastised for suggesting that teachers should set the example for those they are educating as role models.

Okay Dennis Chun is an educator and his position and civil disobedience suggested that he violated the "social integrity" of his obligation as an educator thus tying both his personal views/actions to his job thus he should be fired.

That backs up my original position regarding drug testing of our teachers in our public schools (morality wise). Apparantly my position was in the extreme minority and subsequently backed down.

In the end it seems that the lines of an educator's personal and private life should not be blurred with their professional life as an educator. The two are distinct and separate entities...so it was determined. I felt otherwise but relented.

Maybe I'm wrong but I see no difference here if you advocate civil disobedience to the level Dennis Chun suggests to the point of illegal activity or consuming illicit drugs all the while embracing "social integrity"

Personally I agree with Acousticlady...but it seems his acts of civil disobedience should remain a separate entity when considering his role as an educator and role model. It really comes down to a Freedom of Speech issue and for that I back down again.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The question I have is what exactly did this guy advocate? If it was civil disobedience in the style of Martin Luther King, I wouldn't be bothered.

But some of the actions by protesters can not be called "civil". Pounding on cars? No, that's a riot. Forming a human chain and blocking the road - that would be civil disobedience. Remove the element of violence.

[glossyp]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The question I have is what exactly did this guy advocate? If it was civil disobedience in the style of Martin Luther King, I wouldn't be bothered.

But some of the actions by protesters can not be called "civil". Pounding on cars? No, that's a riot. Forming a human chain and blocking the road - that would be civil disobedience. Remove the element of violence.

You're quite right. I shouldn't have used the words "civil disobedience". There is a clear difference between peaceful resistance and bullying or intimidation.

[MatildaRose]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5+

According to today's PBN update, Kauai Superferry will resume service between Honolulu and Kauai on September 26. Quote from Linda Lingle:

"We respect everyone's right to voice their opinion, but we will not allow a small group of protestors to act out in a lawless manner to obstruct the operations of a legitimate business, intimidate the people who wish to use its services or put people's lives at risk," Lingle said.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5+

According to today's PBN update, Kauai Superferry will resume service between Honolulu and Kauai on September 26. Quote from Linda Lingle:

"We respect everyone's right to voice their opinion, but we will not allow a small group of protestors to act out in a lawless manner to obstruct the operations of a legitimate business, intimidate the people who wish to use its services or put people's lives at risk," Lingle said.

Maybe they discovered all the Hui-R members were flying to Maui to see Aerosmith. Sneaky!

[Nords]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

"Dumb newbie" question for the moderators or whoever else has the answer:

Why are the longer threads broken up into chapters? "Chapter 5" here, and similar breaks in the "What's for Lunch", "What's for Dinner", & "Bush Watch" threads... does a humongous multi-month thread cause SQL or board admin problems?