Private school tuition

[damontucker]

Re: Private school tuition

Private schools are important for the kids that don't fit in, either because they are too smart or socially challenged or superior athletically, bound to be discriminated against for some reason etc etc.

For the other 80%, it makes no difference. In fact, in Hawaii, I think the best way to kill the fighting spirit of your average kid is to send them to private school. I've known many Punahou, Iolani and Kamehameha grads who "peaked" on graduation day because they felt entitled to success not simply given the opportunity to start the fight.

When I look around at the people I know in Hawaii (1000s), I can't look at the "products" (the adults) and tell if they were public or private school trained. That's my double blind test. If there seem to be equal numbers of successful or happy or productive individuals from Hawaii private schools as public, then where is the benefit?

Private schools are important for the kids that don't fit in, either because they are too smart or socially challenged or superior athletically, bound to be discriminated against for some reason etc etc.

From my recollection... the superior athletes at my school were never discriminated against...If anything, given privileges such as time out from school to travel, tutors, more access to the weight rooms, etc.

For the other 80%, it makes no difference. In fact, in Hawaii, I think the best way to kill the fighting spirit of your average kid is to send them to private school. I've known many Punahou, Iolani and Kamehameha grads who "peaked" on graduation day because they felt entitled to success not simply given the opportunity to start the fight.

So where does Kamu get this 80% number?... if Kamu is going to follow that by saying, "in fact..."

When I look around at the people I know in Hawaii (1000s), I can't look at the "products" (the adults) and tell if they were public or private school trained. That's my double blind test. If there seem to be equal numbers of successful or happy or productive individuals from Hawaii private schools as public, then where is the benefit?

You are only looking at the people that you know in Hawaii. The benefit will be seen in the future... it's a simple concept of the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

Hugs though Kamu if i'm reading this wrong.

Manoa

[kamuelakea]

Re: Private school tuition

From my recollection... the superior athletes at my school were never discriminated against...If anything, given privileges such as time out from school to travel, tutors, more access to the weight rooms, etc.

Wassup Manoa, I help you. Wot, you went private school owah wot? Sheesh, alwayz gotta draw pickcha foah da private skool buggahz.

My point with the athletes and the rest was to suggest that the people who NEED to go to private school are the people who NEED to go to private school for whatever the reason. Many of Hawaiis best football players, for example, will go to Saint Louis. Not because of the great academics but because a standout athlete will probably be even better when pushed by other standouts. Competition breeds success. Same thing with the supah smat nerds. They will do better around other supah smat nerds.

The discrimination word chrew you off. That would apply to the poor Haole who's UH Professor parents just arrived and they live in the Kaimuki High School District. You know the one where all the Palolo Housing Soles go? Dat one. No way. The kid would be permanently damaged so they HAVE TO GO Punahou or Iolani. See? Different case.

So where does Kamu get this 80% number?... if Kamu is going to follow that by saying, "in fact..."

I just picked it out of my public school brain. It just means "most of us". Like you and me. The average masses. Nothing too special about us. So so at everything. That's what I mean by the 80%.

Hugs though Kamu if i'm reading this wrong.

Manoa

Hugs to you manoa.

[damontucker]

Re: Private school tuition

Nope never went to a private school... but went to a good public school that competed against many private school... and we consistently beat them in athletics.
In fact our gymnastics team was the state champion something like 27 of 30 years straight...and most of the competition was private schools.

My point with the athletes and the rest was to suggest that the people who NEED to go to private school are the people who NEED to go to private school for whatever the reason.

I work for the public schools and I see the advantages first hand of sending your child to a private school here in Hawai...

I just don't see your reasons for it!

I honestly feel that the people that most need to go to private schools can't... because they can't afford it.

[scrivener]

Re: Private school tuition

I honestly feel that the people that most need to go to private schools can't... because they can't afford it.

Now this is quite true, although it's more of a blanket statement than I would make about it. Students who need individualized, specialized, research-based instruction (and they cut across all demographics, economically, politically, ethnically, and geographically) often can't afford it. My school costs $16,500 because that's what it costs to teach these students, but who can afford that? Not your average family.

The DOE pays the tuitions for many of my students; most (and I do mean considerably more than half) of the rest receive financial aid from the school, to the tune of a collective quarter million dollars per year. The tuition is steep, and I have taught the children of professors, governors, bank CEOs, and TV news anchors because these are people who have the means to pay the tuition and because these are people who recognized their children's learning differences at young ages.

It breaks my heart to think that estimates put the frequency rate of dyslexia at 10 to 15 percent of the population, while my school, the only one of its kind in the state, is able to serve just over three hundred of them from K through 12. If NCLB is going to do one positive thing, it is that it will force public schools to deal in some way those kids who just learn differently. You shouldn't have to go to a private school for that, not when we're talking about 10 to 15 percent.

[damontucker]

Re: Private school tuition

The DOE pays the tuitions for many of my students;

Scrivener... I sent you a message... If DOE is involved with paying tuition for some of your students... then I believe your school would be eligible for some of the stuff I mentioned to you in the pm...no questions asked.

we have to comply with NCLB stuff...and if you have students that are funded by DOE...then your school is also eligible for our services.

[John Maple]

Re: Private school tuition

My wife and I have four children. Our eldest went to boarding school on the East Coast; this was before we moved back to the Islands. Our second opted for public school, the third went to Punahou, and our youngest just started the fourth grade at 'Iolani (we've homeschooled until then). The three all have tight-knit friendships from school and went on to great colleges. The choice between public vs. private depends a lot on the child in question. Our second has always been very street-wise; she also dislikes pampering of any sort and tended to get bored easily in the "prepped" environment (although she was great at finding and creating her own opportunities when left alone). Her younger brother, on the other hand, liked the options and resources available to him at Punahou, especially in extracurriculars. What's most important is communication with your child. Not simply asking them public vs. private (most kids, given that kind of choice, will usually pick wherever their friends are going), but discussing with them the importance of education and the goals they'd like to accomplish. I've been constantly surprised by the thoughtful responses my children have given to this question, when given the opportunity.

[jessicat]

Re: Private school tuition

If you have good kids, it shouldn't matter where you send them to school.

It might even be better to send them to public school, because when they succeed, you know it's because they deserve it and worked for it, not because their teachers held their hands along the way. School is what the student makes of it.

Now if you've got some kids who's attention drift the moment they see a butterfly, you may want to pay the $20,000 for the extra push.

But God, that's more than COLLEGE! That's perfectly good money that can be saved for their college.

[scrivener]

Re: Private school tuition

Since elementary and high schools are developmental, while college is more of a rounding-out, I'd say it's more worth the bucks you spend on private school in the early years. Automobile kiddy seats are much more expensive than aluminum folding chairs, but you don't spare your kids the expense when it's something that important, yes?

As for the whole sink-or-swim mentality, and I'm not just talking about attention-related issues, that's not a bad way to go, but do you really feel that way? Let's say your kid is one of the estimated ten-to-fifteen percent of students in this country who have dyslexia. He's a bright kid -- he can understand anything asked of him orally, and he can perform just about any task when the instructions are not verbal, but when asked to read a passage and then do tasks related to it, he just can't do it.

Chances are very good that your child is going to feel an incredible amount of frustration, which he can express in any number of ways (kids are like that), most of them not conducive to learning everything he is totally capable of learning in the right environment.

Public schools have an unbelievable mandate: to teach everyone. When you have a classroom with twenty-five to thirty-five students, how DO you teach everyone, when we all know that we don't all learn the same way? Let's say your kid does manage to keep his head above sea-level. Is that really all you want? Or do you think you might pay a little more to help your kid really thrive in an environment that works best for your kid?

I am working on my M.Ed. at a small, private university that costs twice what the same degree would cost at UH-Manoa. I like UH-Manoa, but it's just much too big a school for me. I do not do well in that environment, as evidenced by my repeated failure in undergraduate school there. I'm no dimwit; my needs are simply best met in a small-school setting: It's where I finally got my undergraduate degree and where I've spent my career teaching.

A sink-or-swim mentality is okay, but there's no need to settle for the neighborhood pool when there's another pool more suited to your child's needs elsewhere. The parents of my students think it's worth the price, and you should be grateful: that's more dollars the schools can spend on your kid.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Private school tuition

A sink-or-swim mentality is okay, but there's no need to settle for the neighborhood pool when there's another pool more suited to your child's needs elsewhere. The parents of my students think it's worth the price, and you should be grateful: that's more dollars the schools can spend on your kid.

I don't think you've thought this through. You're saying that if a family spends its money on private school tuition, then there will be more money to spend on public school students? I don't think so.

If you take that argument to its logical extreme, we should pull even more kids out of the public schools -- then we'd have even more money to spend on the remainder, right? Hell, if you pulled out all but one student, then we'd be able to spend all $2 billion a year of the DOE budget on that one kid! NOT.

The amount of funding per school is on a sliding scale based on, among many things, the size of the student body. The fewer kids, the smaller the budget. In addition, as more families pull their kids out of public school, the amount of support for the public school system, both among the general public and among politicians, diminishes, and public school funding erodes accordingly.

[jessicat]

Re: Private school tuition

That's why I said that if you need to, go ahead and pay the extra 20,000 dollars.

But a lot of the times, public schools offer the same services that private schools do, it's just a matter of taking advantage of them. Of course, we don't get the one-on-one training all the time, but you won't get that in college either-- you learn how to work harder.

But teachers in public schools are very willing to put in extra time for the students. They stay after school, come in early, give up their lunches to tutor students, or stay in their classes to let students hold a club meeting in their room.

I'm just saying that you learn to be self sufficient in a public school-- the same quality you're going to need in college.

Although, I wish all the politicians put their kids in public schools-- I bet they'd pay a little more attention to them.

[scrivener]

Re: Private school tuition

Is it a set dollar amount per student, or is there some budget that gets split up based on enrollment?

A very good education can be had in public schools -- I am a firm believer in and advocate for Hawaii's public schools. However, as I said, no school can be right for everyone, or even passable.

As for lawmakers sending their kids to private schools, I just don't think that's being fair to anyone. Are you saying that the former highly-placed state lawmaker whose son I taught should have been forced to endure a school that couldn't meet his needs just because his father was a politician? On the one hand, it might force schools to attend more to students with learning differences, but you're talking about the kinds of changes that take years; meanwhile, this lawmaker's kid is struggling NOW.

Do you suggest that the legislator who wants a strong, religion-based education for his children should just forget about that very important (and inappropriate for public schools) facet of education and do without it, when it's totally available in more places in this state than anywhere else in the country? I don't think that's fair.

A lawmaker can believe in both private and public education and represent them and support them both equally. It's unfair for the public to make any demands at all on the choices another parent--whatever his or her job--makes for his or her child's education.

To imply that a lawmaker doesn't care about public schools because his or her children are in private schools is a weak argument. Most lawmakers are educated, and I think most of them realize that we all benefit from strong public schools.

[damontucker]

Re: Private school tuition

Scriv - WSF Weighted Student Formula:

The amount of money given to a school will be based on individual student need, not enrollment. This means that students with more needs will receive more resources. For the first time, funding will follow students to whichever schools they attend, equalizing opportunities at the student level.

How weighted student formula works:

* Each public school will receive a set amount of funds for basic needs.
* A specific dollar amount will be allocated to educate each student enrolled.
* Additional money will be given to educate students with special needs that impact their learning and achievement.

The Committee on Weights, representing educators and community members, will annually recommend the formula for allocating money to public schools based on the educational needs of each student.

http://reach.k12.hi.us/empowerment/wsf/

I don't necessarily see it working the way it is intended and it's only in it's initial implementation stages now.

As far as lawmakers/legislators sending their kids to private school... Come on now people... I think we would all send our kids to private schools if we had the money. They simply make more money then the average joe blow does... It seems like most of them were attorneys and/or lawyers at some time in there career and we all know they make good dinero.

Heck for that matter..... The majority of Public School teachers that I work with send there own kids to private schools!

[jessicat]

Re: Private school tuition

I wasn't being serious.

I just used a blanket statement to imply that if they actually did send their children to public school, they'd probably put in a little more time and effort in public schools for daddy's dearest.

[timkona]

Re: Private school tuition

The problem with WSF is that it fails to acknowledge the economy of scale that exists in larger schools. Small schools serve up smaller classroom sizes, which supposedly leads to better educated children. But WSF, by its very design takes teachers and resources away from small schools.

My daughter's grammar school does not even have a computer teacher this year. WSF was dreamed up by some utopian moron with no economics education.

[SouthKona]

Re: Private school tuition

I think we would all send our kids to private schools if we had the money.

Not always. I've had kids in Hawaii public and private schools. It all depends on what the choices are, and what fits the child's needs. Money has not been the deciding issue for our family. Although, "value for the dollar" certainly has come into the discussion.

Also, our choices of schools on the Big Island are limited - and private schools do not always mean a superior school. A superior school has to achieve superiority by performance, not just by charging tuition.