Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

[Bobinator]

Re: What's inside

The ifs and maybes and possiblys of the sources of these bodies are, IMHO, extrapolated into huge mountains of ethical anguish that are wholly out of proportion relative to the other kinds of corporeal horrors (human and otherwise)

My wife's from mainland Communist China, and her family is still there. The conceived horrors are not tales. It's much worse than you think.

[pzarquon]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

I don't doubt that. The problem was that this particular exhibition could not authenticate that the bodies acquired were not tainted by such practices. That's a far cry from saying that the bodies on display in a given city were those of victims.

So I'm not diminishing the horrors that afflicted victims in China. But I am taking a more practical view of folks who think choosing not to go to a museum exhibit is somehow doing something noble, simply because there is some chance they'd be looking at a body of unknown provenance. (Where first-world medical companies get their bodies for testing is, I'd say, a matter of more immediate and relevant concern to Americans.) Contribute cash to a Chinese civil rights group, instead, then go and enjoy the plasticized anatomy.

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him.

[Amati]

Re: What's inside

But at least I get to choose that fate for my corpse; it's strongly suspected that was not the case for those in the cases on display.

It is worse than just if there was a "choice to be put on display". Part of the controversy is not just if it was a choice to be on display, but whether or not Chinese prisioners were/are actually executed in order to be sold as a corpse.

Online research has a lot of information on the topic.

[68-eldo]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

I keep waiting for someone from the medical community to chime in.

I remember reading in the Star Bulletin (I think) that the bodies were unclaimed in China. While that leaves open the possibility that they are bodies of prisoners it does not exclude non prisoners. It does open the question about what happens to unclaimed bodies of any kind in China, or in the USA and even here in Hawaii.

When someone donates their body to “science” what happens to that body? Does it go to a major medical lab researching high profile diseases? Or does it go to the local med school for students to practice various procedures? I think the latter is more likely. But are there enough donated bodies to provide the needed experience for all the med students?

Not being in the medical profession I can not say for sure but I am guessing the med schools buy their cadavers from a number of sources. I can visualize China as a supplier providing cadavers all over the world. It’s my guess the bodies in this display are from such a source.

Kind of a long way around to the final question. Is this use of cadavers to help educate the general public on a par with their use to educate a few or not?

Again maybe someone from the medical community can shed some light on the subject.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

But I am taking a more practical view of folks who think choosing not to go to a museum exhibit is somehow doing something noble, simply because there is some chance they'd be looking at a body of unknown provenance.

Or rather, making the choice not to put money in the pockets of a company that may be profiting from human-rights violations. Something many of us do on a regular basis.

[pzarquon]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

As usual, Leo, you clarify things greatly. That is, indeed, what I should've said. Basically, if you follow chains far enough and imagine hard enough, and you're screwed, karmically, no matter what. Or, at least, if you're well-off enough to be, say, reading this message board.

Drink a Coke, wear a diamond, shop at Wal-Mart, watch the Olympics, buy a souvenir T-shirt... heck, or turn on a lamp, or walk down a paved road, or enjoy a song on the radio. At the end of the line, somewhere, somehow, an injustice is happening.

So we all make our choices to minimize our impact. Someone might shun diamonds but enjoy a Coke. Or shun meat but drive a car. I fully understand that the possibility that the bodies on display were acquired by nefarious means is enough to prompt one to choose to avoid the exhibit. To me, that's more hoops to jump through, probability wise, than lots of other choices one could make to do less evil.

This all being hypothetical, anyway, because I'm too cheap to choose either way.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

Basically, if you follow chains far enough and imagine hard enough, and you're screwed, karmically, no matter what.

Amen, brother!
(DISCLAIMER: Response designed to be from one secular individual to another, with no intent to promote or proselytize any specific religion or set of spiritual beliefs whatsoever, or even a lack of said beliefs.)

[Bobinator]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

I don't doubt that. The problem was that this particular exhibition could not authenticate that the bodies acquired were not tainted by such practices. That's a far cry from saying that the bodies on display in a given city were those of victims.

So I'm not diminishing the horrors that afflicted victims in China. But I am taking a more practical view of folks who think choosing not to go to a museum exhibit is somehow doing something noble, simply because there is some chance they'd be looking at a body of unknown provenance. (Where first-world medical companies get their bodies for testing is, I'd say, a matter of more immediate and relevant concern to Americans.) Contribute cash to a Chinese civil rights group, instead, then go and enjoy the plasticized anatomy.

You have a point here. I guess it's very difficult to believe anything good from a country that falsely imprisons and even executes people for worshipping God in their own homes.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

I've always said it, XXXX China. I don't believe a word out of their political mouths, and they are the enemy of the US.
Just this morning, we're hearing that internet censorship is going to happen during the Olympics, even tho they and the IOC said it wouldn't.
What's worse, is the IOC say's there's nothing they can do about it!
Oh, really...? I can think of some obvious things they can do, like call off the games.
China sux, and so does the IOC.

[Adri]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

It does open the question about what happens to unclaimed bodies of any kind in China, or in the USA and even here in Hawaii.

When someone donates their body to “science” what happens to that body? Does it go to a major medical lab researching high profile diseases? Or does it go to the local med school for students to practice various procedures? I think the latter is more likely. But are there enough donated bodies to provide the needed experience for all the med students?

Not being in the medical profession I can not say for sure but I am guessing the med schools buy their cadavers from a number of sources.

If there is an unclaimed body in Hawaii, it can be donated to the Medical School or be used for research. If it's not accepted by the Medical School or an appropriate institution, then the body will most likely be cremated by the State.

If you donate your body to the Medical School, you generally have to fill out their forms (or a medical provider has to verify that you intended to donate your body to the School) and it's illegal in Hawaii to sell or receive money for a body.

http://jabsom.hawaii.edu/JABSOM/departments/WBP.pdf

Something similar to The Bodies Exhibition in Hawaii could raise the interesting issue of "abuse of a corpse". §711-1108 Abuse of a corpse. (1) A person commits the offense of abuse of a corpse if, except as authorized by law, the person treats a human corpse in a way that the person knows would outrage ordinary family sensibilities. (the except as authorized by law, I think, was meant to address things like autopsies and actions legally taken by undertakers).

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

When someone donates their body to “science” what happens to that body? Does it go to a major medical lab researching high profile diseases? Or does it go to the local med school for students to practice various procedures? I think the latter is more likely.

Not part of the medical profession, but I can tell you what I did, back in my early twenties. I registered with the University of Iowa, filing assorted bits o' paperwork.

As noted above, first, any usable organs are donated to those in need (eyes, liver, heart, whatever) - many states allow you to register to do this through your state's Driver's License bureau, and your license is marked as such (presumably, if they find you deceased somewhere, this tells the authorities that they have your permission to take what is needed while it's still "fresh").

Second, the corpse is donated to the university's medical school. Since I no longer live in Iowa, the school has reciprocal arrangements all over the country, so presumably, were I to die here in Seattle, it would go to the University of Washington's medical school.

Last, when the school is done with it, they cremate the remains and give them to any family I have. Barring any family to take it, they would dispose of the cremated remains into a common-grave location. All at no cost to me or my estate.

I've also made sure my family is aware that these are my wishes, so there's no confusion over that at the time. It's also noted in my will.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

Basically, if you follow chains far enough and imagine hard enough, and you're screwed, karmically, no matter what.

Well said, Pzarquon


Even the computers we use to write our HT posts are tainted with the blood of 5.4 million Africans.

The electronics industry has long enjoyed an implied image of being green. Their products don't directly burn icky fossil fuels. They don't slaughter animals, bringing them to the brink of extinction. Sure electronic junk chokes our landfills, but it's not as visible as plastic bags in the park or rusting cars abandoned along the road.

This industry, with its spiffy image, does have a dirty little secret: tantalum. It's an important metal which is used to create very small, yet still powerful, capacitors. These small capacitors are critical to the shrinking of electronic circuitry, which allows us to have cute little gadgets like the iPod Nano.

It's a good thing a lot of tantalum can be mined in poor countries. Not having to worry about annoying things like pollution control keeps prices down and profit margins up. The chemical separation process is a bit...messy, but it helps that the local population isn't educated enough to know that hydrofluoric acid, sulfuric acid, and potassium fluorotantalate are Bad Things (tm).

Aw heck. They're smarter than we give them credit for, but they need the money and having a gun in their face will stifle objections. The United Nations reported that the exportation and smuggling of coltan (a tantalum bearing ore) helped fund the war in the Congo.

So yeah, you're a sinner for just living in America. Best admit to yourself that you're not a saint. Trade in your high horse for a cute pony.


Belated thanks to Cynsaligia for giving us a nice review of the exhibition and staying on topic. Sorry. We boys will be boys.

[buzz1941]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

Oh great. When I called up Hawaii Threads, "Bodies The Exhibition: What's Inside" is right above "Meat Bargains!"

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Bodies The Exhibition: What's inside

Oh great. When I called up Hawaii Threads, "Bodies The Exhibition: What's Inside" is right above "Meat Bargains!"

Haha. You should screenshot (screenshoot?) it.