Biofuels & Energy Independence

[timkona]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Is it irrelevant that some autos get 40+ mpg?
Or is it flippant to point out that some folks choose NOT to purchase those vehicles?

The Prius was advertised very little, and yet they sold like hot cakes.

Consumers buy what they like. Big Govt, Big Oil, and Big Auto do not control your purse. But many prefer a scapegoat to a mirror.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Is it irrelevant that some autos get 40+ mpg?
Or is it flippant to point out that some folks choose NOT to purchase those vehicles?

The Prius was advertised very little, and yet they sold like hot cakes.

Consumers buy what they like. Big Govt, Big Oil, and Big Auto do not control your purse. But many prefer a scapegoat to a mirror.

consumers buy what they like of what is available to them. duh! lots of hawaii residents want a host of things we simply cannot get living in a group of islands in the middle of the sea. it's comically sad how you exhort others about looking into a mirror when you're evidently intellectually unobservant.

mr. watanabe--if biofuel made from used veg oil smells like roast pork, would it similarly tempt you if biofuel made from algae smelled like the nori around musubi? of course, i have no idea what algae biofuel actually smells like.

[joshuatree]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

consumers buy what they like of what is available to them. duh! lots of hawaii residents want a host of things we simply cannot get living in a group of islands in the middle of the sea. it's comically sad how you exhort others about looking into a mirror when you're evidently intellectually unobservant.

mr. watanabe--if biofuel made from used veg oil smells like roast pork, would it similarly tempt you if biofuel made from algae smelled like the nori around musubi? of course, i have no idea what algae biofuel actually smells like.

I concur, consumers do dictate what products sell but consumers can only dictate out of the product line offered to them. For years, diesel fuel in Europe is the ultra low sulfur type. Only now has our govt started to mandate this type of diesel fuel which makes emission standards easier to meet for car manufacturers. Expect to see a whole new slew of diesel cars coming to the states soon. And these cars can get 65mpg without any fancy hybrid technology. For instance, I would love to get a Toyota Aygo diesel for my work commute but that's not available here.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Anyone else familiar with the ZENN?
Of course, as you are used to hearing: "not available in Hawai`i."

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

consumers buy what they like of what is available to them. duh! lots of hawaii residents want a host of things we simply cannot get living in a group of islands in the middle of the sea. it's comically sad how you exhort others about looking into a mirror when you're evidently intellectually unobservant.

mr. watanabe--if biofuel made from used veg oil smells like roast pork, would it similarly tempt you if biofuel made from algae smelled like the nori around musubi? of course, i have no idea what algae biofuel actually smells like.

Heck if they made cigarettes smell like a barebecue I'd be inviting smokers to sit outside my house!

And to answer your question, "yes it would". BTW I got nothing against bio fuels, but before we jump on the bandwagon we really have to look at if what we're doing now is energy wise or ignorant. If it takes more energy and if it produces more pollutants than the conventional stuff we use now, is it prudent to switch to something that'll make it worse?

We don't know yet of the viability of biofuels and if it does create energy independence, but if that's the arguement being presented here, and if we want to be less dependent on foreign sources of oil, then we already are because here in the United States, we have the largest deposits of shale oil.

In the past getting and refining this form of crude oil was difficult and expensive, but when you consider the cost of recycling and remanufacturing biofuel on a large enough basis to feed our entire country economically, shale oil may be economically feasible.

But if it's a matter of environmental concerns, what are the emission/refining outputs of biofuel, what are the production costs and energy needs to refine bio fuels? These are the kinds of questions we need to answer in finality to determine which direction we need to go to save the earth and become energy independent. Just because it's an alternative, that doesn't mean it's better or safer, look at aspertame.

[timkona]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

consumers buy what they like of what is available to them

Thats exactly my point. Fuel sipping, eco friendly, subcompact cars, that get well over 35 mpg have been available for nearly 20 years. But SUV's and light trucks continue to sell better. Some folks think big auto/govt/oil is to blame for the choices consumers make. That's plain crazy.

Perhaps we are rooted in the classic argument of liberal vs conservative politics, wherein the liberal platform demands that big forces are in play, while the conservative side sees it as each individual choosing/fending for themselves.

I know one thing. I have saved thousands of dollars in fuel bills with an Echo and Corolla over the last 7 years. That is the CHOICE I have made. Saving money is so cool. Saving money is good for the environment.

Doesn't everybody like to save money?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

[I]Doesn't everybody like to save money?

Save money...now that's a concept!

I have several cars one of which I just sold because it was too old and was a money pit...a 1986 Honda Accord LX! That bugga ran forever on a tank of gas and was my daily driver from Keaau to Hilo logging over 50-miles per day.

But it was old and the monthly repair was taking it's toll on my play money so I sold it and now I drive my 97 AWD Astrovan as the daily driver which gets about 18-MPG and sucks gas like it's the end of the world. I kinda wish I still had my Honda

I would consider buying a Prius but I look at that technology as an interim one and soon another more efficient technology will emerge and probably cheaper too. Everytime I see a Prius I always wonder who other than the dealership can fix one of these babies when the system fails and how much is the hourly rate for repair?

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Fuel sipping, eco friendly, subcompact cars, that get well over 35 mpg have been available for nearly 20 years. But SUV's and light trucks continue to sell better. Some folks think big auto/govt/oil is to blame for the choices consumers make. That's plain crazy.

Ah, but is it? For the last 30 years, we've lived with the gas guzzler tax, which has imposed a surcharge on sportscars/sedans which fall below a certain mpg. Obviously, this tax is designed to discourage consumers from purchasing V8 musclecars and luxo-yachts.

But up until now, trucks and SUVs have been exempt from the gas guzzler tax. When the law was first passed, the marketshare segment for those vehicles were small. Obviously, their sales numbers are up and so the lawmakers in DC may soon be revisiting that law. If the exemption for low mpg trucks/SUVs is eliminated, that will obviously be Washington's way of making consumers think twice before plunking down their money on a Hummer H2 or a Ford Excursion.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Ah, but is it? For the last 30 years, we've lived with the gas guzzler tax, which has imposed a surcharge on sportscars/sedans which fall below a certain mpg. Obviously, this tax is designed to discourage consumers from purchasing V8 musclecars and luxo-yachts.

But up until now, trucks and SUVs have been exempt from the gas guzzler tax. When the law was first passed, the marketshare segment for those vehicles were small. Obviously, their sales numbers are up and so the lawmakers in DC may soon be revisiting that law. If the exemption for low mpg trucks/SUVs is eliminated, that will obviously be Washington's way of making consumers think twice before plunking down their money on a Hummer H2 or a Ford Excursion.

yes, and let's not forget that just a few years ago, the republican controlled congress passed 43's "economic stimulus plan" which included actually giving tax breaks of $100,000 to those who purchased large SUVs. it was initially meant for farmers and small business owners who needed help buying vehicles with towing power, but of course everyone else, including your normal urban self-employed folk, took advantage. in the meanwhile, the tax credit for buying a hybrid was much smaller.

it's only so obvious THAT's a huge contributor to why you see so many people with large SUVs, regardless of whether they really need something that big: many of them basically got em for free, thanks to the tax break. a single, self-employed person who lives in a condo in honolulu has little or no motivation to buy a sentra or an altima when uncle sam is very happy to buy him/her a top of the line titan, fully quipped with heated leather seats and whatever other bells and whistles s/he chooses. the only logical reasons such a person would choose the smaller vehicle is if there isn't big enough parking at home or s/he doesn't make enough to support a half ton truck's voracious appetite for gas.

and that, timkona, is exactly how geedubya personally influenced the american public's vehicle shopping during his presidency. but of course you're completely incapable of understanding even as simple of an illustration of that.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

and that, timkona, is exactly how geedubya personally influenced the american public's vehicle shopping during his presidency.

No one bought SUVs during the Clinton era? j/k

[timkona]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Perhaps many folks have the money to buy gas?

Perhaps many folks who drive the "behemoths" simply don't give a rip about the environment?

Methinks the second is more likely than the first. It's still a choice folks make at the dealership. I choose what I drive. So do you.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

I'm with Timkona on this one. There's more then adequate choices before the consumer to see where their tastes are. And while there's a few that are into econo cars, many are into power and macho.

As for electric cars, the retrofitting places are not exactly booming.

I tried to find why the original VW Beetle was discontinued. It stuck in my mind is that they couldn't meet Federal standards. Maybe crash worthiness. But the articles I could find said it was because sales fell below 30,000/year.

During the last gas price spike, I heard a lot of bitching and moaning, but I didn't see a lot of people dumping the big stuff for little cars. Oh, I'm sure there were a few. But not a movement.

No, cars (and trucks) are all about image. Interesting the most popular hybrid is one that had a body style unique to hybrids - so it screamed "I'm green". Like I said. All about style.

[Random]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

No, cars (and trucks) are all about image. Interesting the most popular hybrid is one that had a body style unique to hybrids - so it screamed "I'm green". Like I said. All about style.

Then why not put both together? Just because it is eco-friendly doesn't mean it has to look more of those fugly hippie tree-huggers who don't shave their armpits (especially if their armpit hair is longer than their scalp hair).

Style and Green can go together. I'm still waiting on a hybrid Hummer, with monster wheels so I can trample those Smart cars and redeem them at Hi-5 recycling centers.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Then why not put both together?

No one has figured out the right combination, if there is one. Kids mod their cars all the time. They'll come up with something even if corporate doesn't.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Biofuels & Energy Independence

Like I said before in the Super Ferry thread, the car is an extension of one's ego. BUT NOOOOOOoooo I was drilled down by the naysayers that they weren't. Hi Mel, still want that G3?