Chinky Mahoe

[LikaNui]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

I clearly agree with Amati and Leo, and I think it's pretty clear that most people do. There is simply nothing more important than looking out for the welfare of children. Nothing.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

The Star-Advertiser reviewed a new book featuring interviews with several contemporary kumu hula, including Mahoe.

It includes the first-person oral histories of seven contemporary kumu hula: Hattie Laea Nuhi Au, Olana Clark A‘i, Alan Barcarse, Aloha Dalire, Frank Kawaikapuokalani Hewett, Howell "Chinky" Mahoe and Pua Kamealoha Gomes.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

Should a convicted child molester be "Forgiven" ... perhaps a possiblity. Should a convicted child molester be "Trusted" with children ... NEVER AGAIN!

Craig, I am truly relieved that you are not the person in charge of the criminal system, that you are not the gatekeeper who stands between a child molester and children! I want someone in charge who puts a child's welfare above the molester's welfare.

Amati, the laws of justice cannot be prejudiced. Right or wrong, it must be objective. Once we put emotion into our criminal justice system, the foundations of it crumble and every sentence becomes subjective and unbalanced to all those who are tried in a court of law. This form of governance can be found in countries that base their convictions on bias.

I agree a convicted child molester cannot be trusted. However if they are deemed "rehabilitated" by the same authority that convicted them, then we need to trust that authority that this person has been rehabilitated and can be trusted again. If not then they should be locked up indefinately BECAUSE they cannot be trusted, EVER again. But that's subjective and not what our laws of justice are based on.

I would think anyone would want to have someone who thinks objectively and not with a bias towards any gender, race or age, in charge of our criminal justice system and quite honestly Amati, I do believe the reason why Chinky Mahoe is out amongst our Keiki is because we have an objective criminal justice system. Does it work for you, apparently not, but one day it could be you or me being judged by our peers, and wouldn't it be reassuring that despite overwhelming evidence, if we know we are innocent, the object thinking of our penal system will prove that out.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

Being trusted to teach other people's children is a privilege, not a right.

If someone is stupid enough to put themselves in a situation where that trust is compromised, then that's it. No more one-to-one interaction with children any more. That person will have to find endeavors that don't involve kids.

There's tons of jobs out there that don't involve working with minors in an isolated setting. Released offenders are not being deprived of their civil rights and liberties when faced with that situation.

If anyone values a position that involves teaching and mentoring young minds, then an impeccable reputation is something that needs to be carefully safeguarded at all times. Since the wellbeing of children is so valuable, one does not get a "do over" if you do anything to screw up that trust.

I know of a former major league pitcher who can no longer coach any kind of youth baseball (little league, high school, American Legion, etc.) because he's now a registered sex offender in this state. Even though his transgression involved an adult, this mess-up spilled over into other aspects of his life, including coaching. The whole thing is regrettable because the guy was a heckuva instructor. But he's at fault for his own predicament. Society and the justice system do not owe him any apologies whatsoever.

Anyone wants to feel sorry for adults who made bad choices,... that's up to you. My concern is for the welfare of children. They come first. ALWAYS.

[LikaNui]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

Once we put emotion into our criminal justice system, the foundations of it crumble

I don't understand what you're saying. The point is that Chinky pled No Contest and was convicted as guilty of multiple child molestation charges. "Emotion" didn't enter into his No Contest plea nor into his obvious conviction.

I agree a convicted child molester cannot be trusted. However if they are deemed "rehabilitated" by the same authority that convicted them, then we need to trust that authority that this person has been rehabilitated and can be trusted again.

Again, I don't understand you. Who ever said that Chinky was put into rehabilitation and/or that he was deemed rehabilitated?

I do believe the reason why Chinky Mahoe is out amongst our Keiki is because we have an objective criminal justice system.

If that's the case, then the system needs an immediate overhaul.

[matapule]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

A drunk is rehabilitated when he admits he is a drunk, attends therapy, and vows never to put himself in temptation by never drinking again.

"Rehabilitation" is admitting you have an addiction and avoiding that addiction in the future.

(I wish this were an original thought, but really comes from my PsychD daughter)

[Amati]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

Amati, the laws of justice cannot be prejudiced. Right or wrong, it must be objective. Once we put emotion into our criminal justice system, the foundations of it crumble and every sentence becomes subjective and unbalanced to all those who are tried in a court of law.

The "laws of justice" in the case of child molesters require that they register as a sex offender of children. Perhaps the law should also prohibit a sex offender of children from mentoring and teaching children as a kumu hula.

Does it work for you, apparently not, but one day it could be you or me being judged by our peers, and wouldn't it be reassuring that despite overwhelming evidence, if we know we are innocent, the object thinking of our penal system will prove that out.

What? I did not say that our penal system was broken. I said a molester of children should never be trusted with children again.

So Craig, pointedly, do you think that a child molester should trusted with children again, especially in the role as a mentor or teacher or instructor?

[Kaonohi]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

So Craig, pointedly, do you think that a child molester should trusted with children again, especially in the role as a mentor or teacher or instructor?

I'm not Craig, but I feel that a convicted child molester (or even a suspected child molester) should be somehow restricted from teaching children.

Proven innocent.,or not proven guilty, they get another chance.

"Our children are our future." SpirituG: 1947

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

The "laws of justice" in the case of child molesters require that they register as a sex offender of children. Perhaps the law should also prohibit a sex offender of children from mentoring and teaching children as a kumu hula.



What? I did not say that our penal system was broken. I said a molester of children should never be trusted with children again.

So Craig, pointedly, do you think that a child molester should trusted with children again, especially in the role as a mentor or teacher or instructor?

Emotion comes from this discussion about how we choose to debate trust. If we interjected emotion as we do here, into the criminal justice system, there would be no objectivity in court rulings.

Being incarcerated with the possibility of parole does imply a level of rehab. Otherwise parole wouldn't be an option. Obviously he's out of prison meaning he's either served enough time or rehabilitated enough for the judicial system to deem him safe to enter back into society.

That same system which reviewed all evidence that convicted him determined his exit out of jail.

If we as a society don't believe Chinky Mahoe should be out of jail then we don't believe in our criminal justice system. If we don't believe in it then it needs to be overhauled.

Please take all of what I just said in total context. I am simply saying that our system of justice has determined punishment, incarceration and fair return of one of our own citizens back into society.

WE have to trust our system of justice that they are doing the right thing, otherwise YES an overhaul is needed. If we don't trust our system of justice, but don't do anything to affect an overhaul, then we are simply being either helpless or lazy in being proactive.

If we don't like what we're seeing, change it! If you don't want to raise the effort, then accept it the way it is. And yes one person can make the difference.

What makes changing this system regarding Chinky Mahoe difficult is that Chinky served his time! He completed his punishment. He deserves to be a free man...based on his punishment. If our system determined he's a free man, then let him be.

If society determines he can never be trusted again, then is he really a free man? No he has restrictions. That is not freedom by anyone's standards even our own. If we as a society feel he cannot be afforded the same freedoms all Americans are offered despite rehabilitation, then he should not be released from prison...ever. And we as a society must demand that change be made to satisfy our subjective and emotional disposition regarding child molesters.

Regarding whether Chinky Mahoe should be allowed to teach to children, obviously there are those parents who do trust him enough to do so, and obviously the penal system isn't questioning that either. So honestly, your question has already been answered by those who trust him and by those who released him.

I'm sorry if I accused you of saying the penal system is broken. But if you feel Chinky's role back in society is wrong, then you don't agree with those parents who do trust him and the penal system that isn't questioning it.

We cannot armchair quarterback the reasonings or judgements of those parents or officials that allowed Chinky to continue to teach to children, we can however rely on the objective thinking of our criminal justice system that allows for a fair and balanced system.

I do not take one position or the other, I do believe a child molester should be locked up until deemed safe enough to be returned to society...if ever. But I also argue, to be fair and just, that once deemed safe enough to be returned to society, that person should be granted the same freedoms we all have. Live by the sword, die by the sword. We either have to trust our criminal justice system or not. This is what it comes down to.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

If ... then we don't believe in our criminal justice system. If we don't believe in it then it needs to be overhauled.

BINGO! And that's why so many of us work to elect politicians who will put teeth into the laws of our cities, states and nation - and not allow to go unpunished (and even rewarded!) so many criminals whose business actions have caused harm to us and our fellow citizens. As you said: "Live by the sword, die by the sword."

... Chinky served his time! He completed his punishment. He deserves to be a free man...based on his punishment. If our system determined he's a free man, then let him be.

Again, you over-simplify the matter. In our criminal justice system, not all rights are restored to all individuals upon release, regardless of the crime. Many criminals who commit crimes involving guns are not permitted to be around firearms ever again, no matter how much time was served. It can easily be argued that similar restrictions should apply in this case, as regards children.

[matapule]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

Obviously he's out of prison meaning he's either served enough time or rehabilitated enough for the judicial system to deem him safe to enter back into society.

That same system which reviewed all evidence that convicted him determined his exit out of jail.

If we as a society don't believe Chinky Mahoe should be out of jail then we don't believe in our criminal justice system. If we don't believe in it then it needs to be overhauled. .

I do not know the history of this case. I presume he was found guilty of child molestation......which is an addiction.

To repeat myself from an earlier post, rehabilitation of an addiction is:
1. admit to yourself and others that you have an addiction
2. receive counseling and therapy specific to that addiction
3. remove yourself from future temptation to that addiction (children) permanently

An addiction can never be cured, it can only be controlled. For example, an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic even though they haven't had a drink in years.

Yes, if the Hawaii criminal justice system released this individual and allows him specific conntact with children, Then the Hawaii criminal justice system is broken and needs to be overhauled.

[anapuni808]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

Craig - I think the question to you is this:

would you be willing to send your boy(s) to study in his Halau? where he will be in close contact with them, often "hands on" to demonstrate the moves? and thats using the assumption that your boy(s) want to study hula.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

I do not know the history of this case. I presume he was found guilty of child molestation......which is an addiction.

He plead "no contest." Not the same as admitting guilt (which many have noted is a key step in conquering addiction), but he was able to avoid a trial.

[matapule]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

He plead "no contest." Not the same as admitting guilt (which many have noted is a key step in conquering addiction), but he was able to avoid a trial.

A "no contest" plea is the same as a guilty plea and is acknowledged as such by the defendent. It just avoids the expense of a trial for the defendent. If he is now saying he was innocent, this is one sick MF. Pardon the expletive, but this makes my blood boil.

[anapuni808]

Re: Chinky Mahoe

its a plea called "nolo contendre" and its not exactly the same as a guilty plea - the defendant doesn't say that they are guilty or not guilty. they are basically telling the judge that they will allow the court to decide the degree of guilt and punishment. the defendant basically throws himself on the mercy of the court and agrees to adhere to whatever punishment the judge might decree. It avoids a jury trial.