Looking for a landfill site

[Glen Miyashiro]

Rod Tam is at it again. When he was in the State Legislature, he suggested that state workers should be entitled to state-funded snacks (http://starbulletin.com/2000/01/27/news/story7.html) and naps (http://starbulletin.com/2000/01/25/news/story4.html) while on duty. Now, as a Honolulu City Councilman, he goes and proposes to site a new landfill inside Koko Crater (http://starbulletin.com/2004/11/24/news/story1.html). What else is this buffoon going to do?

I am getting disgusted with the Council's unwillingness to actually make a decision on a new landfill site. It's obvious that they are running scared because they fear that voting for a site in their district will be political suicide. What chickens. :mad:

[Vanguard]

Perhaps he wants to get fired so he can live off his pension and watch Deep Space Nine reruns on SpikeTV?

:Shrug:

[pzarquon]

I couldn't believe the curveball the City Council panel threw with their "none of the above (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Nov/23/ln/ln03p.html)" answer to the landfill question. It's exactly the kind of hard decision we need elected leaders to make (each of the studied options would have made someone mad), and they all sidestepped in lockstep.

It would be funny if it wasn't such a serious issue. It's like the ending to a bad Disney TV movie. "We had all these awful choices, but then a little fairy flew in and gave us an answer no one had thought of before!"

Except, of course, instead of "Happily Ever After," we get, "What The F***?"

[Miulang]

Well, I think Washington State would still be interested in having your garbage shipped up here...for a price! :p

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

Yeah, but your governor would have to approve first. Who would that be? Oh wait, you still don't know. :p

[Miulang]

Yeah, but your governor would have to approve first. Who would that be? Oh wait, you still don't know. :p
Actually, we do know. Kinda. Sorta. As of 5 p.m. today, Dino Rossi (R) won the recount by 42 votes statewide out of 2 million ballots cast. Christine Gregoire and the Dems want a manual recount of key counties (e.g., King, which is the Gregoire stronghold). I think Gregoire should just concede and give Rossi the "mandate" the Republicans think they got from the voters.
Heh. Even within this state, we got blue counties and red counties! :rolleyes:

It's not like having a Republican governor here is gonna do much in the next 4 years anyway. The state Senate and House are pretty much still controlled by the Dems.

Miulang

[adrian]

Yeah, why we don't ship off our trash?

Where else are we going to dump our trash? Niihau? Kahoolawe?

[craigwatanabe]

How about Rod Tam's backyard. Seems fitting for a guy who only talks trash.

[Linkmeister]

No, no, no. Rod and Ann K. have now introduced a bill saying there shouldn't be any landfills on Oahu.Tam and Councilwoman Ann Kobayashi also introduced a new possibility: they sponsored a bill that would ban all city landfills from the island, and scheduled it for a preliminary vote Wednesday.

From yesterday's paper (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Nov/25/ln/ln05p.html).

Mush for brains, or what?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Aha, I've got it. Ann Kobayashi is trying to have the Council act so crazy that the public will give up on hoping that the Council will make a decision, and instead force Mayor Jeremy Harris to make the decision right now, before he leaves office, thus taking the pressure off of her good friend Mufi Hannemann to do so once he's sworn in. Now it all makes sense. :p

[Linkmeister]

Glen, you may think you're joking, but given her past performance that's not out of the question at all. Furthermore, Jeremy said yesterday he was quite prepared to make the decision if they couldn't behave like grownup elected officials.

[craigwatanabe]

well it's not as if making those "hard" decisions will affect his chances for the Mayor's seat again.

[Miulang]

What's wrong with this picture? It would cost Honolulu $76/ton to ship your garbage to Washington State and $82/ton to truck it to the HPOWER plant or to the current landfill in Waimanalo? :eek: The City and County actually makes $70/ton from the private garbage haulers now because it only costs $12 to run your landfill. Lose money or lose land for development: that appears to be the tradeoff your City Council has to make.

Miulang

http://starbulletin.com/2004/11/29/news/index1.html

[kimo55]

no shame, no shame...

Typical fraudulent inept Hawaii state government at work:
Kokohead crater was given to the state as a preserve.
for the preservation and cultivation of rare and endangered plants
This was the stipulation in the giving.

and now, they openly discuss turning it into a garbage dump.

Nothing is sacred anymore here in Hawaii. All land and priviledges taken away from kanaka maoli and we turn these islands into an over-run, overbuilt overpopulated polluted mess.

[Glen Miyashiro]

The Honolulu City Council is having a hearing today -- actually, right now! -- and the proposed landfill is Item #38 on the agenda. If you're a true masochist for political stuff, you can view a live webcam of the proceedings here (http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/cameras/council/council.htm).

[Miulang]

So the decision yesterday by the City Council was to expand the current landfill site? And yet Mufi says when he's inaugurated and in power that he still wants to shut it down by 2008? Eh, either my math kapakahi or something, but if Mufi shuts down da landfill in 2008, den dat's oni 3 more years foa you guys in Honolulu to find someplace else to put your opala!

If da City and County don't force the citizens of Oahu to recycle or curb their conspicuous consumption, you guys going be in one world of hurt. We still can take your opala up here, you know, if da price is right. Either you guys going feel da pain through increased taxes to pay for your opala being shipped away, or you not going have any more places to develop! Den da people living in Ko'Olina not da oni ones who going be huhu then.

Miulang

[Linkmeister]

Miulang, I'm gonna start thinking you work for the company that wants to take our trash if you keep pushing the idea. :D

I've driven through a lot of Washington State, and I'd hate to see it filled up with Hawai'i's garbage (there's an Alice's Restaurant joke in here somewhere). If we can't take care of our own mess...

[Miulang]

Miulang, I'm gonna start thinking you work for the company that wants to take our trash if you keep pushing the idea. :D

I've driven through a lot of Washington State, and I'd hate to see it filled up with Hawai'i's garbage (there's an Alice's Restaurant joke in here somewhere). If we can't take care of our own mess...
Heehee! Nah, I don't work for any waste management company. But the State of WA is about $1.6 billion in the hole right now, so if you guys like kokua and send some cash to help us balance our budget, it's OK with us. Where they would dump your trash is in the middle of nowhere, anyway, and not anyplace that anyone would want to live nearby. If you're really interested, go find a map and look for Roosevelt, WA. That's about where da opala would go.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

I have a suggestion that sounds fair to everybody...create landfills and recycle centers within each district that creates it's own trash. That way the size of the landfill in your own backyard will be determined by how much your district recycles.

It seems that everybody is taking this NIMBY attitude about landfill sites yet has no problem putting their own trash in somebody elses district. Well if you keep the trash you create in your own backyard that's fair instead of heaping it in somebody elses backyard. If you want to keep your backyard's trash heap to a minimum then you'd be more inclined to recycle your trash.

Your backyard would be a designated location within your own district. For example, Waialae-Kahala would have their own recycle center as would Palolo or Kaimuki. You recycle as much as you can to reduce the amount of landfill material. The excess would then go to Campbell Industrial Park to be incinerated at H-Power.

By putting a recycle center or a refuse center within each district, nobody can say that their district is a dumping ground for the rest of the island.

I think it's time people should become responsible for the waste they create and be proactive about what they do with their trash. Nobody wants a landfill in their neighborhood, yet it seems nobody seems to care where the garbage they create goes, so long as it's Not In My Back Yard. Yeah right it's your trash, keep it in your Back Yard.

It's time we all take a serious look at recycling and reducing the amount of trash we put out every week. When I was in Honolulu I could fill an entire automated refuse container to the brim twice a week and then some. When I moved to the Big Island and we had to haul our trash ourselves, you start to understand just how much trash one can generate and you devise ways to minimize the quantity of trash you have to put in the trunk of your car every week by recycling.

Maybe we should end garbage pick up as a service and let each and every one of us take our own garbage to the dump or the recycle center. Then we'd all realize how much we waste everyday.

[Miulang]

Nah, Craig. Not everybody is as responsible as you are. What would happen if you did away with city garbage pickups is all the lazy buggahs in town would let da opala pile up in the streets (say like Calcutta), then Oahu would look like a Third World country. Then how many tourists would want to visit? :D

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

You know I'd thought the same about the Big ISland however the streets are a lot cleaner and the home lots are a lot less of an eye sore than what I've seen in Honolulu.

Eh so what running out of Kona Beans?

[Miulang]

You know I'd thought the same about the Big ISland however the streets are a lot cleaner and the home lots are a lot less of an eye sore than what I've seen in Honolulu.

Eh so what running out of Kona Beans?
Since you guys kinda "pioneers" out there, no wonder you take pride in your land. However, many city dwellers who don't own property don't have the same attitude. If they can blame the opala on somebody else (it's easier to be anonymous when you live in a congested area), I bet you'd find "anonymous" bags of trash at the curbside, too.

In our condo complex, the renters (as opposed to the owners who live here) take less responsibility for their actions than the owners do; probably because they have no vested interest in keeping the place looking good.

Yeah, we wen run out of da Kona, but we going concentrate on SBUX burned coffee for little while. However, get one retail store ova dere dat sells Hawaiian Vintage Chocolate? I like try some of dat stuff in my baking. I bet would taste onolicious in a chocolate lava cake, yeah? I know I can order by mail, but I like know if get one store in Hilo that go sell dakine. BTW: I understand that Hawaiian Vintage Chocolate has a farm in Kea'au someplace? Is that true? I wonder if they give tours? Next year I think we going holoholo to the Big Island and if get tour, that would be someplace I'd like to visit.



Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

I still think each district should take care of its own refuse. It's not fair that one district should be able to pollute another for the sake of NIMBY! At least for Honolulu, each council member should be responsible to find a site within their districts to handle their opala.

I'm not sure about Hawaiian Vintage Chocolates but I do know that somewhere on the Big Island is where the world's best chocolate is made.

I'll look for the sales on Kona Coffee beans. KTA just sponsored a big Kona Coffee Bean festival a few weeks ago and had this fantastic sale on coffee. Figures just after I sent you the coffee and just before it was announced about the hike in the stuff!

[Miulang]

I still think each district should take care of its own refuse. It's not fair that one district should be able to pollute another for the sake of NIMBY! At least for Honolulu, each council member should be responsible to find a site within their districts to handle their opala.

I'm not sure about Hawaiian Vintage Chocolates but I do know that somewhere on the Big Island is where the world's best chocolate is made.

I'll look for the sales on Kona Coffee beans. KTA just sponsored a big Kona Coffee Bean festival a few weeks ago and had this fantastic sale on coffee. Figures just after I sent you the coffee and just before it was announced about the hike in the stuff!

Even though Hawaiian Vintage Chocolate's corporate address is in Honolulu, I do believe that they have contracted with some farmers in Kea'au to grow cocoa beans. I think some other people are also raising vanilla beans over there, too. Apparently your volanic soil and weather are perfect for growing cocoa and vanilla beans. Maybe that's what I'll do if I buy a lot in Kea'au. I'll be a cocoa and vanilla bean farmer! :) Thanks for looking for some more Kona for me too. Just let me know how much it is and I'll pay you back, unless there's something from up here that you want like smoked salmon or different kinds of coffee beans (NOT SBUX because you don't like the taste).



Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

I think chocolate comes from the cacau (spelling?) plant and is a pod.

Anyway don't worry about sending anything back, it's not a problem. I'll check the papers for the sales. One thing about Kea'au, I think the weather is too dry and hot for growing coffee. It's great for orchids though, there's tons of Bamboo Orchids growing wild all around my place!

[Miulang]

An update on development at Ko'Olina. Since the opala heap will be right next door at least through 2008 (and then even after they berm it the stuff under the ground will still be there), how many visitors would want to stay at the Grand Ko'Olina if they knew what was in the ground next door? Seems like a waste of money to me.

Miulang

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Jan/23/bz/bz01p.html

[Miulang]

Oahu's opala (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/4797551/detail.html) and the lack of space to grow is making the news again. Sounds like the City Council has two options: ship the ever growing loads of garbage up to the Mainland, or eventually run out of space and have it piled up on the sides of the street, like on Maui.

If they vote to ship the opala to the Mainland (I don't know if the offer to ship trash to Washington is still open or not), then taxpayers are going to have to pay the cost for getting the garbage up to the Mainland. If they choose not to ship the garbage, which neighborhood wants to share its land with a new landfill? Are they going to truck stuff up to Kahuku side? The people who occupy Ko'Olina are going to be thrilled to pieces when they close down that landfill. Unfortunately, they can't build on it for years and years (if ever) because of all the bad stuff that might be buried there. I bet Mufi is getting bigtime pressure from the rich folk at Ko'Olina to shut that landfill down.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Oahu is just getting way too crowded. Pretty soon going get one new mountain range between Waianae and the Koolau's called Mauna O' Opala.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Nah... still no mo nuff rubbish for one Mauna. Maybe we could have one Pu'u o Opala.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Here's a Google Maps view (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=21.344865,-158.117981&spn=0.073212,0.107795&t=k&hl=en) of the area near the Waimānalo Gulch Landfill. The landfill is in the upper left, just north of the Ko Olina artificial lagoons. See how close Ko Olina is? And also see how close Makakilo is? Who would put a resort next to a landfill anyway? :confused:

[Miulang]

Here's a Google Maps view (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=21.344865,-158.117981&spn=0.073212,0.107795&t=k&hl=en) of the area near the Waimānalo Gulch Landfill. The landfill is in the upper left, just north of the Ko Olina artificial lagoons. See how close Ko Olina is? And also see how close Makakilo is? Who would put a resort next to a landfill anyway? :confused:
Which came first? the landfill or Ko Olina? My guess is the landfill was there first. If it was, the County should condemn Ko Olina under the eminent domain rules just published by the US Supreme Court and turn that into the Waimanalo Gulch Landfill Annex! ;)

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

actually I believe Ko'olina was always scrub land filled with thorny Keawe. Previously to that it was sugarcane lands so I don't think it was ever a landfill.

Oops I had to read the previous posts to fully understand your chicken/egg question. Okay the resort came first.

The Waimanalo Gulch landfill was created out of the naiveness of those living in the area. When the City and County said they were going to build a landfill in the Waimanalo Gulch they had the meeting in the Waianae area. People living there thought the gulch was in...well Waimanalo on the extreme other side of the island...you know...Bumpy's land (Bumpy Kanahele the Hawaiian activist). The braddahs and sistahs of Waimanalo just laughed their okole's off because they new better and simply didn't attend.

When the bulldozers began clearing the land for this landfill, neighbors was appalled :eek: "What da heck stay going on ova dea?" they was asking themselves.

Yes you fools...the C&C said to those families, "Waimanalo Gulch is in your neighborhood...never mind the fact that we quietly renamed the gulch just before announcing the new landfill site". Ho I tell you dem buggahs in the C&C was a sneaky bunch...Hey Miulang...I tink dem buggahs was dems too! Hala in da Opala! :eek:

Oh and Point Of Interest: the lagoons of Ko'olina were originally restricted to the Ali'i...you know way back when before the white man came in and made all the wahine cover up their breasts. :(

[Miulang]

actually I believe Ko'olina was always scrub land filled with thorny Keawe. Previously to that it was sugarcane lands so I don't think it was ever a landfill.
Yeah, but which came first? The first buildings at Ko Olina or the landfill?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Here, read this (http://opala.org/history.html). It's a little essay entitled "Garbage In Paradise: A History of Honolulu's Refuse Division", the official history of waste disposal in the City & County of Honolulu. It's actually interesting!

[craigwatanabe]

The planning came for Ko'olina came first, then the landfill then the resort development. So to answer your question literally the landfill came before the buildings, BUT the planning for the resort came way back before the landfill.

[MadAzza]

Oh and Point Of Interest: the lagoons of Ko'olina were originally restricted to the Ali'i...you know way back when before the white man came in and made all the wahine cover up their breasts. :(

Really? I thought the lagoons were manmade. I'm relieved to learn they weren't dynamited into existence, after all.

Hey, and if you go there at night, you don't have to cover up *anything.*

[Miulang]

Hindsight will always be 20:20, but why in the heck would the city planners ever agree to put a landfill right next to a planned community? I know it was easy to just dump the leftover building materials from Ko Olina next door, but now the filled land in that dump site will be unusable for generations to come. And who knows what contaminants might leach into the water supply and lagoon of Ko Olina or Makakilo from that landfill?

Another example of poor, myopic city planning. Now the residents are going to be paying big time. Is there an opala god in Hawaiian mythology? If there is, I think he's going to have the last laugh on the people of Ko Olina.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

I wouldn't go there at night unless you want to be victimized. The pools can be a dangerous place to go at night unless you're on resort property.

[D'Alani]

The planning came for Ko'olina came first, then the landfill then the resort development. So to answer your question literally the landfill came before the buildings, BUT the planning for the resort came way back before the landfill.

Are you sure because the landfill got it's permit back in 1987.Read the bottom of this (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2004/11/15/daily38.html)

But yeah, something needs to be done about where we are going to put all our waste.

I enjoy reading through all the interesting threads.

[Miulang]

Hey! I got a great idea for limiting growth on Oahu. Put all the malihini into a series of Survivor competitions. Maybe have 1,000 "winners" who get to buy houses or find jobs. The rest get to go back to whereever they came from, with a lovely parting gift.

Lessee...there's been Survivor:Palau, Survivor: Amazon, Survivor: Vanuatu, the next series I think is in Guatemala...they could have Survivor: Waimanalo. Set in the lush Hawaiian tropical paradise of Waimanalo, 16 hearty and intrepid malihini get to brave dengue fever, foreign tasting food, a language that sounds like gibberish and disgruntled natives for the right to live on a tropical island...yeah, that's the ticket! :rolleyes:

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Are you sure because the landfill got it's permit back in 1987.Read the bottom of this (http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2004/11/15/daily38.html)

But yeah, something needs to be done about where we are going to put all our waste.

I enjoy reading through all the interesting threads.


I got a master plan pamphlet for the development of Ko'olina dating back to 1984.

[MadAzza]

I wouldn't go there at night unless you want to be victimized. The pools can be a dangerous place to go at night unless you're on resort property.

I thought we were talking about the lagoons at Ko Olina, which I often go to at night with no fear.

[craigwatanabe]

Don't go to the far ones (Koko head side) where the open coral parking lot is. That parking lot isn't part of the resort.

[D'Alani]

I got a master plan pamphlet for the development of Ko'olina dating back to 1984.

Wow I nevah no wen dat fa back...tanks fo da info and I stand corrected. I must say you do put out a lot of good info, mahalo.

[Miulang]

This is really funny. The City and County of Honolulu is running out of space in its landfill (scheduled to close by 2008) and the NIMBYs are saying put the replacement landfill (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060121/NEWS04/601210335/1001) in somebody else's back yard.

There's a private recycling firm up here in Washington that would be willing to take about 20% of your 'opala, but the City Council doesn't want to do it because they don't want to lose control of your 'opala and it would cost money (as opposed to generating money right now).

"...Hannemann said, "Everything is on the table." However, he said that shipping waste out of state is likely to be expensive and would cut city revenues because tipping fees would not be collected if the rubbish went elsewhere.

The state agency that oversees the Waimanalo Gulch landfill warned that the city faces a long and complicated process if it intends to extend the life of the landfill.

"Any application involving that facility will probably take a lot of time to process," said Laurence Lau, the Health Department's deputy director. "It's a big job."..."

So either the residents of the City and County of Honolulu start getting serious about recycling, or your taxes will go up some more because there's no room for your 'opala. Hmmm...which is more valuable? Space for the 'opala or space to develop housing?

Miulang

P.S. Don't feel bad. Maui has the same problem. The 'opala pile in Lahaina is visible from the highway, and it's not a very pretty sight! The dump in Pu'unene just had to open up another area because it, too, was running out of space.

[calway65]

Greetings. I have a solution to Hawaiian trash dilemma. First have it compacted into large square bales making sure 60% of the trash will float. The bales should be a min. of 20’x20’x40’. Then wrap them in florescent weather proof, waterproof sealant. Now take reflective paint and identify the bales as: “Hawaiian scientific ocean current mapping project, do not tamper with or disturb.” Now come the essential part of the plan if it is to work. Launch a world news campaign letting the international communities know that from each of the Hawaiian Islands, 10 scientific ‘floats’ will be launched with the out going tides every day for a year. State the purpose of this experiment is to see how long it takes the ‘floats’ to return to the Island shores. Invite the international communities to, if they happen to come across one of the science bales, to mark it with a waterproof marker with data of how, what, where, and when they encountered it. Then send it along its way back on the world’s ocean currents. Supplemental income can also be generated from the project by running a world wide web betting poll on where and when the ‘scientific bales’ will show up. Just a thought and trying to help.
-Cal Wayne

[Glen Miyashiro]

And now the City has been fined for $2.7 million (http://www.hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/pressdate.html) for environmental violations at Waimānalo Gulch Landfill. How does this help them find a new site? :rolleyes:

[Miulang]

The Honolulu City Council approved a bill yesterday that would force the Waimanalo Gulch landfill (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/NEWS01/602160329/1001) to close by 2008 as originally planned. This creates a sticky situation for Mufi's administration because a new site has not been identified yet, and neither has any other alternative (like shipping some of it off island). Residents themselves are probably going to have to start being more rigorous about recycling. And the cost of waste disposal (i.e. your taxes) will have to go up, no matter what. I would hate to have Honolulu turn into one big 'opala pile.

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

The City Council's forced deadline might be the only way to get the City Administration off their okole to seriously consider an alternative to Waimānalo Gulch. Nothing else seems to have worked. :rolleyes:

[timkona]

The solution will never be implemented due to the "politics of NO".

Of course, the solution is a full blown waste-to-energy plant that produces electricity, ethanol, methanol, compost, and billets of dirty aluminum, glass blocks, bales of plastic, etc etc

The technology is all over Japan and many parts of Europe.

Alas, HECO will say NO to the electricity, Oil Companies will say NO to the fuel production, environmentalists will say NO to the smelting, Hawaiians will say NO because of bones, residents will say NO for location, and nothing will be done.

The Politics of NO is destroying Hawaii.

Most of Gen X and Gen Y see the Baby Boom generation as the problem. Boomers were trained in the 60's to protest anything. Vietnam, Environment, etc etc. Today, these Boomers represent the majority of the voting public. And by practicing the politics of NO vigorously, they are wrecking society.

I know that as I get older, Boomers, and the politics of NO, will start to die off. And a crumbling infrastructure will be rebuilt, better than it was, by visionary futurists of the X and Y generations.

[warriorfan808]

After reading this thread, I actually sorted through my garbage and pulled out some bottles. We needed a new landfill spots years ago and I'm hoping the state doesn't do a stall job to keep this from happening. Like many of you, I hope we send our trash to the mainland. Other than Washington, I heard that Idaho is also looking to take our trash off our hands.

This is a little off the subject, but I was wondering about Nanakuli. I lived in Nanakuli with my aunt and uncle when I was fresh out of High School for a short time. I asked my cousin about the smell at night and he said that it came from the farms up north. I figured it would be a combination of the smell from the farms and the ocean.

Just recently, I was hanging out with one of our Mechanical Engineers from work at his place in Nanakuli. I told him, "Damn man, I could never get use to that." He later told me it was because of some LandFill close to Nanakuli? I'm not sure if this is true, but it was what he said.

Anyone know the truth behind the funny smell in Nanakuli? No offense to Nanakuli residents.

[warriorfan808]

The solution will never be implemented due to the "politics of NO".

Of course, the solution is a full blown waste-to-energy plant that produces electricity, ethanol, methanol, compost, and billets of dirty aluminum, glass blocks, bales of plastic, etc etc

The technology is all over Japan and many parts of Europe.

Alas, HECO will say NO to the electricity, Oil Companies will say NO to the fuel production, environmentalists will say NO to the smelting, Hawaiians will say NO because of bones, residents will say NO for location, and nothing will be done.

The Politics of NO is destroying Hawaii.

Most of Gen X and Gen Y see the Baby Boom generation as the problem. Boomers were trained in the 60's to protest anything. Vietnam, Environment, etc etc. Today, these Boomers represent the majority of the voting public. And by practicing the politics of NO vigorously, they are wrecking society.

I know that as I get older, Boomers, and the politics of NO, will start to die off. And a crumbling infrastructure will be rebuilt, better than it was, by visionary futurists of the X and Y generations.

Nicely said Timkoa. Haven't we already been working on recycling garbage with H Power? I believe we also have a dual layer water recycling plant that recycles water to be used for fertilization. We do need to do a lot more. Has curb side recycling gone anywhere? Not sure if it's economically feasable, but given the fact that we're looking into paying a company to take our garbage, maybe curb side recycling might be something that could get done.

[mel]

Years ago we used to have a big incinerator that burned all of Honolulu's garbage. Years ago residents on the neighbor islands could openly burn their rubbish in pits, barrells or other containers, and easily dispose of the ash. Environmentalists hated it. They wanted us to have landfills. They got em. And now look what it has created. No space for any more.

Maybe we ought to go back to open burning.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Years ago we used to have a big incinerator that burned all of Honolulu's garbage. Years ago residents on the neighbor islands could openly burn their rubbish in pits, barrells or other containers, and easily dispose of the ash. Environmentalists hated it. They wanted us to have landfills. They got em. And now look what it has created. No space for any more.

Maybe we ought to go back to open burning.Mel, I know you don't like "environmentalists", but don't let that dislike make you get your facts wrong.

There still is an incinerator that burns Honolulu's garbage. It's called H-Power (http://www.honoluluhpower.com/). Everything burnable gets burned, and the residual ash and the non-burnable stuff is landfilled.

Before H-POWER, the city used several earlier incinerators and dumped the ash and non-burnable stuff into other landfills. This has been going on for a long time.

See Garbage In Paradise: A History of Honolulu's Refuse Division (http://opala.org/history.html) for the details. In fact, that whole web site is pretty interesting. Their Data and Resources (http://opala.org/additional_resources.html) page is pretty good reading.

[mel]

Thanks for setting the record straight Glen. At least no one is throwing anonymous red bricks at my opposite opinion. I still maintain that we should go back to private open burning too. We did it all the time on the Big Island when I was a kid.

[alohabear]

As long as Oahu doesn't start shipping thier garbage to ANY neighbor island, it won't be a problem.

[mel]

It will never happen, but Kahoolawe would make a great dump site.

[Miulang]

It will never happen, but Kahoolawe would make a great dump site.
Don't push Oahu's problem off on Maui County. We got enough 'opala as it is. But hey, I hear Hawaii County has lotsa open space out there on the lava fields! :D

Miulang

[timkona]

But hey, I hear Hawaii County has lotsa open space out there on the lava fields!

We also have a volcano burning at 2000 degrees. Pele chose to solve our rubbish problem for us. We just ignore the solution. But that solution would be way too practical. Practicality takes a back seat to "belief" in today's modern society. After all, it's much easier to "believe" what feels good than to do what is pracitical.

[Miulang]

We also have a volcano burning at 2000 degrees. Pele chose to solve our rubbish problem for us. We just ignore the solution. But that solution would be way too practical. Practicality takes a back seat to "belief" in today's modern society. After all, it's much easier to "believe" what feels good than to do what is pracitical.
Fewer people=less rubbish

[tutusue]

Thanks for setting the record straight Glen. At least no one is throwing anonymous red bricks at my opposite opinion. I still maintain that we should go back to private open burning too. We did it all the time on the Big Island when I was a kid.
Opposite opinions don't automatically cause red bricks. How those opinions are stated can and do cause red bricks! Of course, now that the chiclets are gone so is anonymity! You stated your opinion factually (whether or not the facts were accurate) and forthrightly. Nuthin' wrong with that! ;)

[timkona]

Fewer people=less rubbish

It's funny when baby boomers talk of fewer people. Now that's irony.

[Miulang]

Fewer people=less rubbish

It's funny when baby boomers talk of fewer people. Now that's irony.
Remember, I'm the one WITHOUT kids and you have how many?... :p And when I see how spoiled and self-indulgent my nephews are, I'm glad I didn't add to the gene pool!

Miulang

[Glen Miyashiro]

We also have a volcano burning at 2000 degrees. Pele chose to solve our rubbish problem for us. We just ignore the solution. But that solution would be way too practical. Practicality takes a back seat to "belief" in today's modern society. After all, it's much easier to "believe" what feels good than to do what is pracitical.Just for the sake of argument, 'cuz I certainly don't support the idea, here are some numbers on using Madam Pele's current home as Honolulu's lua. Waimānalo Gulch Landfill was originally designed with a planned capacity of 6,650,000 cubic yards (reference (http://luc.state.hi.us/dockets/sp87-362oahu/sp87-362waimanalo.pdf)). I am guessing it's maybe double that by now. By contrast, the volume of Halemaʻumaʻu Crater is about 345,000,000 cubic yards (reference (http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/HawaiiQuest/gen_hawaii_volcs/question4.html), calculation (http://www.google.com/search?q=%28+pi+*+%28+%28+3000+%2F+2+%29+%5E+2+%29 +*+1320+%29+cubic+feet+in+cubic+yards)), about 50 times as much. So there's plenty of space. Right? :D

[timkona]

I'm not thinking of the crater so much as Puu O'o, where the lava comes from right now. Oh well. Pointless to even discuss due to the reality of the situation.

[Paul]

Just for the sake of argument, 'cuz I certainly don't support the idea, here are some numbers on using Madam Pele's current home as Honolulu's lua. Waimānalo Gulch Landfill was originally designed with a planned capacity of 6,650,000 cubic yards (reference (http://luc.state.hi.us/dockets/sp87-362oahu/sp87-362waimanalo.pdf)). I am guessing it's maybe double that by now. By contrast, the volume of Halemaʻumaʻu Crater is about 345,000,000 cubic yards (reference (http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/HawaiiQuest/gen_hawaii_volcs/question4.html), calculation (http://www.google.com/search?q=%28+pi+*+%28+%28+3000+%2F+2+%29+%5E+2+%29 +*+1320+%29+cubic+feet+in+cubic+yards)), about 50 times as much. So there's plenty of space. Right? :D

Unless I'm mistaken which I am actually hoping I am, I think Timkona is suggesting we throw the garbage into an active vent and let the lava burn it up.

[timkona]

you got it Paul....but it will never happen....way too practical....the politics of NO would blow a gasket at the mere suggestion.

[Miulang]

For the sake of discussing this alternative, how do you propose getting garbage close enough to the active vent to toss it into the vent? What would that cost? I thought the only way to get to Pu'u O'o was by foot because of the rugged terrain?

Miulang

[timkona]

Terrain might be rugged....but likely no bones in the way, so a road would be easy to build.

I'm sure an engineer could dream up a way to get the rubbish into the puka.

But for the cultural issues, it's not really that far-fetched. I bet Pele would approve.

[mel]

Don't push Oahu's problem off on Maui County. We got enough 'opala as it is. But hey, I hear Hawaii County has lotsa open space out there on the lava fields! :D

With the current sensitivity engrained into the Hawaiian community, you know darn well something like this would never happen on Kahoolawe (putting a landfill there).

Putting trash in the path of an active volcano lava flow may be something to consider. Someone earlier mentioned dumping it into the active volcano. I'm for that, if it were cost efficient and doable... perhaps with a big helicopter or something. I don't know.

[Creative-1]

The Big island could be generating all it's own electricty from geothermal.

Not only that, but it could be saving millions of gallons of oil (and save at least 1/3rd on electricity) and carbon dioxide dumped into the atmosphere.

Why isn't it? The nay-sayers said it offended Madam Pele!

[mel]

Yep, the politics of Hawaiian fanatacism, overules common economic sense in the State of Hawaii.