Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Welcome to the club...

The only way around it, until HT admin. extends the time limit and tells us it's been done, is to post quicky and then flesh it out with the edit freature. Lame, but that's about all we got until the situation is easily fixed.

If you think you're going to have a lengthy post, compose it offline, then post it. S.O.P.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Attack Pedestrians

Try this for long posts or if it takes a long time to get it down (distractions and all that) and in the posting box before it times out:

http://www.editpadpro.com/editpadlite.html

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Attack Pedestrians

If you think you're going to have a lengthy post, compose it offline, then post it. S.O.P.

In most cases, if you don't panic upon submitting and enter your login credentials when prompted, your "lost" post will carry through. However, it's good practice to reflexively select-all and copy your post text to your clipboard before submitting just in case.

I'm puter stupid, and probably can't even accomplish any of that on the computers at my disposal. So for those in similar circumstances, the quicky/edit is the basic/easy way around the problem.

[TuNnL]

Re: Attack Pedestrians

I'm puter stupid, and probably can't even accomplish any of that on the computers at my disposal. So for those in similar circumstances, the quicky/edit is the basic/easy way around the problem.

I’d just like to reiterate helen’s point that using this method can potentially result in misunderstanding among your fellow HT members. I fellow named “salmoned” comes to mind. I believe it was Leo Lakio who first noticed that salmoned’s (alleged) method is to post first, see what his so-called “adversaries” post in response, then (allegedly) change his original post to negate their argument. I’m not saying you have done this or are planning to, now that I have planted that seed. It is what it is. Read helen’s post for the point about the post-edit 45-minute window, which is also a good point.

Using the copy and paste method is a lot simpler then you make it out to be, Ron. You don’t need to open any other software programs. Just select all text with your mouse, and press Ctrl + C [on a PC] or Apple () + C [on a Mac]. Then, to paste, simply press Ctrl + V [PC] or Apple () + S [Mac].

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

I gotta say that HT's software is some of the most aggravating forum software that I've used. In addition to the problems that can cause you to loose your posts, there's the issue that it can't remember what threads I've read and which ones I have not.

Also, HT seems to have a problem properly flagging a sub-section as read once I've read all the threads in there. I have to exit the last thread to go to the subsection, then back to the main section to see the dimmed flower. If I jump from the thread back to the main, the flower stays bright red.

These types of aggravations is one of the reasons I don't frequent here as much.

So imagine my surprise when I discover that HT is running the exact same software and version as another board I frequent - and it behaves beautifully! At least with respect to the new threads.

So somewhere HT has a setting (to conserve hard drive space?) or a missing patch.

Oh, and that board used to have problems with spammers. They solved it. They dumped Captcha and replaced it with some simple questions. Ones that would be easy for a human to answer, but one that broke the spammer's automation scripts. (The spammers were targeting vBulletin forum software.)

[Nords]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

I gotta say that HT's software is some of the most aggravating forum software that I've used.

Dude, you're getting what you pay for. Or are you volunteering to help out?

At the risk of preaching to the converted, and while most users fondly remember phpBB, vBulletin has many many more advantages for the webmaster & admins-- not so many for the user. vB also has a tremendous number of buttons, knobs, & switches to configure the features. Not only that but some vB "upgrades" will apparently randomly reset an admin's carefully-crafted features to defaults or other settings that can take days to track down & correct.

I read this forum's posts through the "New/Latest" link and then the "Quick Links | Mark Forums Read" link. It seems to be the minimum number of clicks for the daily routine. Another vBulletin board (Early-retirement.org) has added little "->" icons to its threads to show users which threads they've previously posted to. Even if it's running well, these features can glitch across midnight/time zones or various server issues. So it's not necessarily under the control of the admin.

E-R.org is under constant spammer attack, and the problem is never "solved"-- only in the sense that an arms race is "won". The only surefire way to avoid spammers is to be too small/obscure to be worth their time. Every other anti-spam measure either requires constant admin/moderator labor or is just another iteration in the arms race.

There are probably other user-convenience features which can either be configured or even programmed (by vBulletin for future updates). Ryan may appreciate learning what other boards/features improve our user experiences, but it may be more work than he's willing to donate his time to. The reason I've learned about them is because E-R.org is now run for profit by an owner who ceaselessly spams his own ads and uses search-engine optimization to drive crowds of newbs to the site, where the predictable spam/usability problems ensue. The owner is reasonably attentive to keeping some customers happy (or at least the newbs who click on the ads) while the only people who suffer the labor burdens are the mods/admins.

If there's a better board than this one for local news/issues then I'm willing to go look at it. But I find that I keep coming back here.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

I gotta say that HT's software is some of the most aggravating forum software that I've used. In addition to the problems that can cause you to loose your posts, there's the issue that it can't remember what threads I've read and which ones I have not.

Also, HT seems to have a problem properly flagging a sub-section as read once I've read all the threads in there.

If the problem does not affect all users, is the problem with the software HT is running? I've not experienced the issues you describe, yet I've had other problems come and go that didn't seem to occur for other posters.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

Dude, you're getting what you pay for.

I pay exactly the same for the other board.

Or are you volunteering to help out?

Depends. What are the needs?

I brought up the spam just to peak Ryan's interest as I believe in the past he's mentioned getting inundated with new user emails as he stands between the spamers and the board.

If the problem does not affect all users, is the problem with the software HT is running? I've not experienced the issues you describe

I've looked all though my options, but I can't find any setting in CP that looks like it might control this behavior.

Are you saying that if you visit the board, that you can come back later, even days later, and it remembers the threads you haven't read on the first visit? I visit forums as "time permits". The ability to only read important (to me) threads and then catch the rest later is important to me. The problem I'm complaining about has existed from the time I joined. The other board has worked perfectly since I joined it. That's why it was such a surprise to me to find they were both running the same software! As it stands now, I can only visit HT when I have a block of spare (ha!) time.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

Are you saying that if you visit the board, that you can come back later, even days later, and it remembers the threads you haven't read on the first visit?

Not days later, no, as it only shows me un-viewed threads from one past day. But if I log on to HT and check the "Latest" threads, view some but not others, I can go away and come back later and it will recall which threads I did and which I did not view earlier. Possibly a cookie setting? Don't know if that scrap of info helps you or not.

[tutusue]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

Not days later, no, as it only shows me un-viewed threads from one past day. But if I log on to HT and check the "Latest" threads, view some but not others, I can go away and come back later and it will recall which threads I did and which I did not view earlier. [...]

That was my experience 'til a few months ago. Now, and within the same day, sometimes it marks the appropriate threads read and other times it marks all threads as read! I know I miss a lot of posts I'd like to read but I'm not willing to take the time to go thru all the marked threads looking for what I've missed!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

Interesting. I wish I could offer more help for GG's concerns, but it's clear to me (from many, many posts here) that he is far more tech-savvy than I. Perhaps after the holidays, Ryan will be available to participate and offer some insights.

[helen]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

It could be that during the time you are reading a thread other users have added more responses to the thread. That could explain why you return to the index listing the flower (or the thread listing) is still highlighted.

It's also an issue when the responses start to cross over a page boundary.

For the comment about having threads being marked as read while you haven't read it yet, that is because your web session on HawaiiThreads has expired (and I don't know off hand what that expiration time is set at). You need to constantly do something once in a while. You could open multiple browser windows. Have one window as the main reader and the second (or more) windows always keeping the index refreshed.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

It could be that during the time you are reading a thread other users have added more responses to the thread. That could explain why you return to the index listing the flower (or the thread listing) is still highlighted.

It's happened too many times. In fact it happens to me every time.

It's also an issue when the responses start to cross over a page boundary.

I seem to remember something about that too. Edit: I think it causes a thread to show "unread" if my post starts a new page. I'm talking about how an entire section is shown as "unread" unless I first position myself to view all the threads in that section in the unread state.

For the comment about having threads being marked as read while you haven't read it yet, that is because your web session on HawaiiThreads has expired

Exactly. HT remember "new" based on what threads have new posts since my expired session. The other site remembers "new" for over a week, even if I use different computers. It's somehow tracking my usage by thread.

And one bug about the expired session. If someone makes a new post before my session times out, it's flagged as "old" when I come back. Even if it was added after I closed the browser.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Lost Messages - Post & Edit Timeouts

Got some details:


The option setting is "Thread/Forum Read Marking Type"

This option controls how threads and forums are marked as read.

1. Inactivity/Cookie Based - once a user has been inactive for a certain amount of time (the value of the session timeout option) all threads and forums are considered read. Individual threads are marked as read within a session via cookies.

This option is how all versions of vBulletin before 3.5 functioned.

2. Database (no automatic forum marking) - this option uses the database to store thread and forum read times. This allows accurate read markers to be kept indefinitely. However, in order for a forum to be marked read when all threads are read, the user must view the list of threads for that forum.

This option is more space and processor intensive than inactivity-based marking.

3. Database (automatic forum marking) - this option is the same as a previous option, but forums are automatically marked as read when the last new thread is read.

This is the most usable option for end users, but most processor intensive.

So it *is* an option. Admittedly it comes with some overhead. I don't know how significant that is for an operation like HT.

I'd like to see it looked into and see it it can be set to #3 as it does increase usability and encourages more frequent visits to the forum.