Racial divide and schools?

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Is this your own creation, Reineke, or from another source? (One that may soon be hearing from, oh, I dunno ... a buncha people from HT, perhaps?)

Get ready to write to Webster.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Hawaiian

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hawaiian

I would rather take issue with sites like these where Hawaiian is only a resident of Hawaii or "a native"

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=251191

http://www.elook.org/dictionary/hawaiian.html


I believe this can be traced to old editions of Webster that are in public domain. This one is from 1913.

http://dict.die.net/hawaiian/

The revised edition states:

1 : a native or resident of Hawaii; especially : one of Polynesian ancestry
2 : the Polynesian language of the Hawaiians

[Miulang]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

The revised edition states:

1 : a native or resident of Hawaii; especially : one of Polynesian ancestry
2 : the Polynesian language of the Hawaiians

Even the revised Webster is wrong, IMO: it's the "especially" part that grates at the sensibilities. It would be more correct to say: "a person of Polynesian (Hawaiian) ancestry". Period. There are also Hawaiians living outside of Hawai'i. Just because they don't live in Hawai'i, doesn't mean that they aren't Hawaiian too, because they do have that birthright and heritage.

Miulang

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Even the revised Webster is wrong, IMO: it's the "especially" part that grates at the sensibilities. It would be more correct to say: "a person of Polynesian (Hawaiian) ancestry". Period. There are also Hawaiians living outside of Hawai'i. Just because they don't live in Hawai'i, doesn't mean that they aren't Hawaiian too, because they do have that birthright and heritage.


Miulang

I prefer this definition and the dictionary itself. It does not exclude the fact that you can be a Native Hawaiian born, bred and living elsewhere. I do believe that the definition 1b (for a good reason b and not a) should not and cannot be contested.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition 2000

Hawaiian

1.

a. A Native Hawaiian.

b. A native or inhabitant of the Hawaiian Islands, the state of Hawaii, or Hawaii Island.

2. The Polynesian language of Hawaii.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hawaiian

[Lei Liko]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Just because it's in some dictionary (regardless of Webster, American Heritage or whatever) doesn't mean it's correct.

Pretty soon people will start looking at Wikipedia like they do the Ten Commandments.

[Keanu]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I prefer this definition and the dictionary itself. It does not exclude the fact that you can be a Native Hawaiian born, bred and living elsewhere. I do believe that the definition 1b (for a good reason b and not a) should not and cannot be contested.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition 2000

Hawaiian

1.

a. A Native Hawaiian.

b. A native or inhabitant of the Hawaiian Islands, the state of Hawaii, or Hawaii Island.

2. The Polynesian language of Hawaii.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hawaiian

It should read...

b. A native or inhabitant of the Hawaiian Islands, the state of Hawaii, or Hawaii Island.


Look up the defintion of Chinese, Japanese, German, Russian etc. in your source of reference and do tell what it says. This logic is flawed.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

It should read...

b. A native or inhabitant of the Hawaiian Islands, the state of Hawaii, or Hawaii Island.


Look up the defintion of Chinese, Japanese, German, Russian etc. in your source of reference and do tell what it says. This logic is flawed.

Your logic is flawed. I suspect you're mixing up "native of Hawaii" vs Native Hawaiian. The first one can mean many things, including of course, what you probably meant while the second one cannot be confused with anything else. Your revised definition would exclude a lot of Native Hawaiians and include all "locals" born there. Maybe that's what you meant, I don't know. As for your other argument:

German

n.

1.
a A native or inhabitant of Germany.
b A person of German ancestry.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Just because it's in some dictionary (regardless of Webster, American Heritage or whatever) doesn't mean it's correct.

Pretty soon people will start looking at Wikipedia like they do the Ten Commandments.

You prove no point, just make disparaging remarks that serve your agenda. It might be "unfair" but that's a different argument and a concept very familiar to Native Hawaiians. These are not "some dictionaries" or "whatever" but two of the most authoritative sources of American usage. With this attitude you can pretty much dispute everything from evolution to the Holocaust.

[Keanu]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Your logic is flawed. I suspect you're mixing up "native of Hawaii" vs Native Hawaiian

The problem is that the definition of both Hawaiian and native Hawaiian are too broad. For example, I am native hawaiian by OHA's definition and not native hawaiian as defined in the Hawaiian Homes Commision Act.

The first one can mean many things, including of course, what you probably meant while the second one cannot be confused with anything else. Your revised definition would exclude a lot of Native Hawaiians and include all "locals" born there. Maybe that's what you meant, I don't know.

On second thought, I'd strike (b) all together and amend (a) to define Hawaiian as
1) a person of Hawaiian ancestry
2) The Polynesian language of Hawaii

[Keanu]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

You prove no point, just make disparaging remarks that serve your agenda. It might be "unfair" but that's a different argument and a concept very familiar to Native Hawaiians. These are not "some dictionaries" or "whatever" but two of the most authoritative sources of American usage.

Haha...you said it. Perhaps that is why it's so easy for us dismiss.

I'm going to go on record and conclude that you are a recent transplant. You have a lot to learn.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

American usage

In these two words lie the flaw that you will not be able to defend with many inhabitants of Hawai`i.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Haha...you said it. Perhaps that is why it's so easy for us dismiss.

I'm going to go on record and conclude that you are a recent transplant. You have a lot to learn.

I see that you edited out the part about animals but I'll answer it anyways. Similarly to Latin, most English words have multiple meanings. Inhabitant can be used metaphorically, for animals etc. but so is the case with alien, population etc. and everyone understands the intended meaning. Nice quip about the American usage. I get it, but until further notice I will consider Hawaii part of the United States and the majority of its residents, inhabitants, population etc. Americans speaking, or being capable of speaking, standard American English. If my Hawaiian experience convinces me of the opposite, I will certainly take note of it.

I do agree that I have a lot to learn - about Hawaii and many other things. So do most people - even those who don't realize it. I am even less than what you assumed - a wannabe Hawaiian transplant. However I am also acutely aware of nationality, ethnicity, half this and half that issues, real this and traitor, fake that rhetoric.

I understand the cold logic of both arguments but I do not see why someone who was born in Hawaii and/or lived there many years, someone who truly loves the island, its people and culture cannot be considered Hawaiian (even if classified only under b). Why strike out definition b? It does not steal from anyone's ancestry but it belittles both the Hawaiian and American spirit of generosity and welcoming. We're striking b so it does not encroach on a. That's wrong.

[Miulang]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I do agree that I have a lot to learn - about Hawaii and many other things. So do most people - even those who don't realize it. I am even less than what you assumed - a wannabe Hawaiian transplant. However I am also acutely aware of nationality, ethnicity, half this and half that issues, real this and traitor, fake that rhetoric.

I understand the cold logic of both arguments but I do not see why someone who was born in Hawaii and/or lived there many years, someone who truly loves the island, its people and culture cannot be considered Hawaiian (even if classified only under b). Why strike out definition b? It does not steal from anyone's ancestry but it belittles both the Hawaiian and American spirit of generosity and welcoming. We're striking b so it does not encroach on a. That's wrong.

You STILL don't get it. If the people to whom you refer want to be addressed in a certain way, then why not respect them and do as they ask? You can NEVER be Hawaiian in the eyes of the kanaka maoli. To insist that definition 1b is valid is to perpetuate the same damned misconception that people on CONUS have about who is/is not Hawaiian.

If you are not born of kanaka maoli blood, you will never be Hawaiian. Period. Even if you were born in Hawai'i and lived there all your life, as long as you don't have any kanaka maoli blood in you, you will never be Hawaiian. You will be a kama'aina, a local, an islander, or a person from Hawaii, but never a Hawaiian. It does not "belittle" the kanaka maoli to give them the respect they deserve. They have always welcomed visitors to their home and what have they gotten for their aloha? For years and years they stood silently and allowed others to take away much of what was rightfully theirs. If they get testy now about "definitions" of who they are, I think they are fully entitled.

Miulang

[Lei Liko]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

You prove no point, just make disparaging remarks that serve your agenda.

[Miulang]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

One other thing you might notice in talking to residents of Hawai'i, Reinke, is people of other ethnicities might refer to themselves as "Japanese American" or "Chinese American" or "Filipino American." There aren't too many kanaka maoli who walk around claiming they are "Hawaiian American". Why is that?

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

One other thing you might notice in talking to residents of Hawai'i, Reinke, is people of other ethnicities might refer to themselves as "Japanese American" or "Chinese American" or "Filipino American."

You don't live here. How do you know what Hawaii residents call themselves? By the vacations you take and ex-residents you talk to on the mainland?

Hawaii people don't use "Japanese-American," "Chinese-American" or "Filipino-American." They use "Japanee," "Chinee" and "Flip."

You're not local anymore. Stop trying to act like you are.