Racial divide and schools?

[Keanu]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I disagree, but I have no problem accepting it especially if I see that most people think this way as well. I might even change my mind about the subject

For the record, I don't really care whether or not you change your mind about the subject. Caring would be adding validity into your misconceptions and "Contus Logic". You claim to be "less than a Hawaiian wanna be" but your persistence in defending your point of view proves otherwise.

[Kahalu'u Kid]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

For the record, I don't really care whether or not you change your mind about the subject. Caring would be adding validity into your misconceptions and "Contus Logic". You claim to be "less than a Hawaiian wanna be" but your persistence in defending your point of view proves otherwise.

+1. I don't care what ANY dictionary or book says about it. They DON'T KNOW about Hawai'i. And I'll just come out and say it straight: Another example of a typical, ignorant haole point of view. Haoles just don't understand. ...

[sinjin]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

+1. I don't care what ANY dictionary or book says about it. They DON'T KNOW about Hawai'i. And I'll just come out and say it straight: Another example of a typical, ignorant haole point of view. Haoles just don't understand. ...

Too bad you had to take it this far. Some haoles understand very well.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Too bad you had to take it this far. Some haoles understand very well.

ok ok..the majority don't understand.

I would say Haoles don't understand too. But "some" do respect the Native Hawaiians and those "some" I would never call haole.

Those are just my views. I'm not Native Hawaiian.

[sinjin]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

ok ok..the majority don't understand.

I would say Haoles don't understand too. But "some" do respect the Hawaiians. And those "some" I would never call haole.

But i'm not Hawaiian.

No matter how sensitive or educated on the issues one becomes, a haole remains a haole. That's okay by me as long as you smile when you say it. To license children to express a general contempt for haoles seems bigoted to me. This is not all that rare even if some would suggest otherwise.

[TuNnL]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

...I'll just come out and say it straight: Another example of a typical, ignorant haole point of view. Haoles just don't understand.

How did I know it would degenerate to this point? The topic was racial issues in Hawai‘i schools if I’m not mistaken. Why you gotta let a mainland haole derail this thread by repeatedly responding to him? I’m asking Ryan to refile the irrelevant posts here into the appropriate topic.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

No matter how sensitive or educated on the issues one becomes, a haole remains a haole. That's okay by me as long as you smile when you say it.

You are correct. Its just my personal(non-Hawaiian) choice not to call them haole.....
Let me explain...
"I myself" would never "call" a Caucasian who is out there supporting Hawaiian sovereignty a haole. If that person has enough love and respect for the Native Hawaiian people to fight with them, than they have earned my love and respect...and "I myself" would not "call" them haole. That's my personal non-Native Hawaiian choice. I am not implying that they are not haole..... "i myself" just would not call them Haole.

but yes, Haole is Haole and always will be Haole.

My non-Kanaka Maoli muli better shut up now. Sorry about that Sinjin

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Firstly, that's as gay as hell.

Okay - you lost me here - what the hell does that comment have to do with anything we are (or were) discussing here?

Your credibility, hovering close to the zero mark prior to this, has now plummeted into negative digits.

[OahuGirl]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Whoa! I am so sorry to have started a topic that turned into what it has. Like I initially said, I have never had a negative experience there.

[Kahalu'u Kid]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Too bad you had to take it this far. Some haoles understand very well.

Yup, you're right. And I have many good haole friends to prove it ... but my personal opinion is still that most don't.

No matter how sensitive or educated on the issues one becomes, a haole remains a haole. That's okay by me as long as you smile when you say it. To license children to express a general contempt for haoles seems bigoted to me. This is not all that rare even if some would suggest otherwise.

You're right again. A haole is a haole. (I disagree w/Poi Boy who says that a haole who respects and understands Hawaiian culture shouldn't be called haole. He/she is still haole based on my definition of the word, which BTW doesn't come from any book, but from being born and raised on Oahu.)

And why do I have to smile when I say it? (Am I required to smile if I call someone a Kepanee or a Kanaka?) You act like it's automatically some racial, derogatory term. All the locals here use it as part of their everyday language (it is a real Hawaiian word, in case you didn't know) without any racial bias or negative connotations. Of course it can also be used with negative connotations based on how it is said, and depending on the adjective used before it. To me, though, the word itself doesn't carry any inherent negative or racial meaning. Aloha.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

You're right again. A haole is a haole. (I disagree w/Poi Boy who says that a haole who respects and understands Hawaiian culture shouldn't be called haole. He/she is still haole based on my definition of the word, which BTW doesn't come from any book, but from being born and raised on Oahu.)

.

I never said "shouldn't be called haole". I said "I myself" would not call them haole.

Look, a haole will always be a haole. I thought I cleared that up in my previous post.

I also never said "a haole that understands Hawaiian culture shouldn't be called haole". In my opinion, a haole can never understand true Hawaiian culture. Just as a so called "local" can never understand true Hawaiian culture.

A haole is a haole and always will be a haole.

[sinjin]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

And why do I have to smile when I say it?

I didn't say you had to, it's a turn of phrase meaning it's not what you say but how you say it. I think you'd agree.

You act like it's automatically some racial, derogatory term.

In present usage it is a racial term, not necessarily derogatory. To me it's a term of objectification and therefore loaded. Such terms strip a person of their individuality IMO and may be neutral but are rarely meant to be flattering.

All the locals here use it as part of their everyday language (it is a real Hawaiian word, in case you didn't know) without any racial bias or negative connotations.

A pettiness that does no one any credit IMO, sometimes with and sometimes without negative connotation.

Of course it can also be used with negative connotations based on how it is said, and depending on the adjective used before it. To me, though, the word itself doesn't carry any inherent negative or racial meaning. Aloha.

If you say to me , "eh, brah", I'm not waiting to see where you're going with this. If you say, "eh, haole", I am. No adjective necessary. I can't imagine myself saying to some guy on the street, "hey Mexican", if you get my drift. Mexican need not be a derogatory term.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I am not sure what to say at this point but I do feel I need to say a word or two. I dared to suggest a dictionary definition of a term. I would have left it at that but I got caught in the discussion. I did not appreciate the way my arguments were dismissed. Only one person suggested a different definition, and that was interesting to read. I defended myself a little too fervently perhaps, I will admit to having a bit of a short fuse, I speak my mind openly and don’t like to be silenced without good cause. I am also not 100 percent politically correct and I consider the extreme form of it a kind of fascism of thought. My persistence in defending my point of view only proves all of the above and nothing else. I could have handled it better.

I think the topic of violence in schools did not get derailed –too much - as an asinine counterargument to my point of view was that “bruddahs” would bust my head.

I have realized this is a serious subject – one that I will definitely avoid in the future. I have also come to learn that this board is a hangout of the kind of people who prefer to revel in being “misunderstood” by the wider world, and who actively seek confrontation instead of discussion. It would have sufficed to say that this was something a lot of people hold very dear, and that although I was trying to prove a point, I was more likely to hurt than anything else. I do apologize to any of the readers, but certainly not to any of the active participants of this thread.

[sinjin]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I am not sure what to say at this point but I do feel I need to say a word or two. I dared to suggest a dictionary definition of a term. I would have left it at that but I got caught in the discussion. I did not appreciate the way my arguments were dismissed. Only one person suggested a different definition, and that was interesting to read. I defended myself a little too fervently perhaps, I will admit to having a bit of a short fuse, I speak my mind openly and don’t like to be silenced without good cause. I am also not 100 percent politically correct and I consider the extreme form of it a kind of fascism of thought. My persistence in defending my point of view only proves all of the above and nothing else. I could have handled it better.

I think the topic of violence in schools did not get derailed –too much - as an asinine counterargument to my point of view was that “bruddahs” would bust my head.

I have realized this is a serious subject – one that I will definitely avoid in the future. I have also come to learn that this board is a hangout of the kind of people who prefer to revel in being “misunderstood” by the wider world, and who actively seek confrontation instead of discussion. It would have sufficed to say that this was something a lot of people hold very dear, and that although I was trying to prove a point, I was more likely to hurt than anything else. I do apologize to any of the readers, but certainly not to any of the active participants of this thread.

You asserted that the dictionary was the final authority in this matter. Dictionaries only define words as they are commonly used or misused as they case may be. I'm caucasian. If I was born in Japan would that make me Japanese as in ancestry? No. Can you appreciate that it's not a matter of birthplace or residency but ethnicity? No one is revelling in being misunderstood. It's just that your ignorance of the issue is predictable and pedestrian. Typical of most residents of the other 49 states. And yet you feel the need to be right even though you have no horse in the race and were admittedly unaware of this issue a short time ago. Also typical for someone of your background. You imagine you have something to offer by way of discussion but you don't. But you're not shy about judging people whose struggle you were oblivious to until lately. This is why they're "misunderstood". They think they know who they are better than you. Imagine that.

p.s. They don't care what I think either. I admire that.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

As I have already stated I am an outsider but that does not make me deaf to issues of ethnicity, belonging etc. I asserted that the two dictionaries might have a point and shouldn't be dismissed so easily. I did not suggest they're a definite answer or unchangeable. You are too personal and judgemental and so were the posters you defend. Beyond the first few posts my main issue was with the form and the content (or lack thereof) and that is certainly where a few people might learn a thing or two. I did not suggest a thing about Native Hawaiians, I only mentioned an additional definition that was separate from the main one. Unlike you I never made any sweeping generalizations. I also think I know better who I am than you. Imagine that.