Star-Bulletin on the Web

[IslandBeef]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

As sad as I feel for the Star-Bulletin that people are going around their ads (and trust me, it is the web... there are many ways to get data like using Google cache to read Honolulu Advertiser archived stories).

You are, in essence, voting with your clicks.

The data from their back end will still show volume, but their click-through rates and impressions will fall. This will force them to sell their ads at a lower rate to get the numbers they need to sell... Pushing more pop-ups on those not going through the side door. Either chasing readers away or making them also go through the side door.

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Speaking of the emerging online newspaper business model;

"The New York Times now earns about $200 million in annual revenue from Internet ads....not that far from the cost of its global newsgathering expenses. Without a print edition, the Times would be a much smaller business, but quite possibly a better one."

www.tvspy.com/shoptalk.cfm?page=1 - 129k

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

The Rocky Mountain News printed it's last paper. The San Francisco Chronicle is on the rocks. The mighty are falling.

There is one big difference regarding the papers that are closing or will shortly....none of them have their own press. They are all the smaller "partner" in a JOA....kinda makes you appreciate the SB a little more. They are the only paper that I know of EVER that has left a JOA, bought their own press, set up their own distribution and sales staff and 8 years later still making a go of it. The Chronicle however is a mess...bloated union wages and staff levels and a market that has no real definition....

[Media Guy]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

True, the Star Bulletin has fought a great fight.
It's amazing what David Black pulled off in a matter of months to keep the paper going and competitive.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

There is one big difference regarding the papers that are closing or will shortly....none of them have their own press. They are all the smaller "partner" in a JOA....

Same situation as the Hearst-owned Seattle Post-Intelligencer. which is likely to dwindle to an internet-only portal within a couple more weeks.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

There is one big difference regarding the papers that are closing or will shortly....none of them have their own press.

Hmm, ok, I could use a little help understanding the significance of that. Are you saying the JOA is what's killing the papers? Or is it that the additional control is helping those that own their own press to simply be the last to die?

kinda makes you appreciate the SB a little more. They are the only paper that I know of EVER that has left a JOA, bought their own press, set up their own distribution and sales staff and 8 years later still making a go of it.

Who left whom? HA built a nice new press that works wonders. The SB/Midweek color registration sucks big time. It not infrequently renders columnists with 4 eyes or cartoons that are unreadable.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Hmm, ok, I could use a little help understanding the significance of that. Are you saying the JOA is what's killing the papers?

I suspect (though it was not my post) that it means in our current economic environment, the "weaker" (meaning - the one that does not have its own investment in presses) paper is even less likely to survive. The weaker paper is usually dependent upon the stronger, for printing, distribution, marketing, advertising, circulation, etc., and gets a smaller percentage of revenue in the JOA. It's not what's killing them, but it can be a factor.

[TuNnL]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

it means in our current economic environment, the "weaker" (meaning - the one that does not have its own investment in presses) paper is even less likely to survive.

Bingo! It is surprising to me how few people have kept up with how close SB came to shutting down, and what has subsequently kept it afloat. One of the first things David Black did when he acquired SB was to purchase the MidWeek press.

Were the Sun Press community papers a valuable and beloved part of the communities they circulated in? Absolutely. One of my first jobs was a paperboy for Sun Press, and when you collect for a “voluntary subscription fee” you really find out how people feel about the publication. All that evaporated almost instantaneously, when the MidWeek press had to make room for SB. Logistics wise, shutting down Sun Press was a must. The theory was, the ad revenue from a half dozen community papers would augment SB’s bottom line (despite nary a thought to how this community interest would now be served, content-wise), saving hundreds of print runs annually in the process.

Fast forward to 2009. MidWeek is shuttering its weekend edition, SB is going to a tabloid format, and the Advertiser is king of Community101. All of these changes center around “press economics.” MidWeek, for all intents and purposes, is a tabloid press, and an overworked one at that. The warm bodies, despite their crucial role in the content sense, are unfortunately just collateral damage.

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Hmm, ok, I could use a little help understanding the significance of that. Are you saying the JOA is what's killing the papers? Or is it that the additional control is helping those that own their own press to simply be the last to die?

In a JOA the smaller partner gets only a portion of the profits that would be used to offset their only expense that they bear the brunt of entirely...the newsroom payroll. When profits plunge as they have been doing, the profit now doesn't cover the expense of the news gathering. I cant recall a single paper of any reasonable size that has closed and has their own press...so having a piece of equipment that cost somewhere between 20 to 50 million "might" be an advantage....



Who left whom? HA built a nice new press that works wonders. The SB/Midweek color registration sucks big time. It not infrequently renders columnists with 4 eyes or cartoons that are unreadable.

Who left whom??? Really?? Seriously?? The history of the Honolulu JOA split would take more time then most would care.....but anyway, if you would have seen the SB staffers carrying their belongings and pushing chairs down the street from the HNA building to their current workplace I think you would have your answer...they certainly didnt look like they were telling Gannett see ya later we are happy to leave the cozy confines of a highly proitable JOA. Just a guess Mr. Gecko but I think Gannett might have gotten a little anxious to monopolize the marketplace and wanted to end things early, which was entirely their call. Obviously, in retrospect for them, a COLOSSAL mistake. There are many others on this board who can fill you in better then me if you weren't around then....

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Bingo! It is surprising to me how few people have kept up with how close SB came to shutting down, and what has subsequently kept it afloat. One of the first things David Black did when he acquired SB was to purchase the MidWeek press.

Were the Sun Press community papers a valuable and beloved part of the communities they circulated in? Absolutely. One of my first jobs was a paperboy for Sun Press, and when you collect for a “voluntary subscription fee” you really find out how people feel about the publication. All that evaporated almost instantaneously, when the MidWeek press had to make room for SB. Logistics wise, shutting down Sun Press was a must. The theory was, the ad revenue from a half dozen community papers would augment SB’s bottom line (despite nary a thought to how this community interest would now be served, content-wise), saving hundreds of print runs annually in the process.

Fast forward to 2009. MidWeek is shuttering its weekend edition, SB is going to a tabloid format, and the Advertiser is king of Community101. All of these changes center around “press economics.” MidWeek, for all intents and purposes, is a tabloid press, and an overworked one at that. The warm bodies, despite their crucial role in the content sense, are unfortunately just collateral damage.

I'm not absolutely certain (I'm sure it can be easily checked) but I believe the Sun Press papers were discontinued well before Black bought MW.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

There are many others on this board who can fill you in better then me if you weren't around then....

I was around, but wasn't paying attention. That's why I asked.

I stand by my comments as to the quality of the product today.

[TuNnL]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I'm not absolutely certain (I'm sure it can be easily checked) but I believe the Sun Press papers were discontinued well before Black bought MW.

You’re right, I goofed. RFD Publications did shut down those papers for the same reasons I gave above, however (I don't know if one year qualifies as “well before” as the short time frame was enough to confuse my memory). And at least they had plan for content, with the announcement of a Midweek Windward edition.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

Hmm, ok, I could use a little help understanding the significance of that. Are you saying the JOA is what's killing the papers? Or is it that the additional control is helping those that own their own press to simply be the last to die?

The JOA is what prevented the Advertiser from going out of business in the 1960s. The Hawaii Newspaper Agency was created to sell the advertising for both papers, and 60% of the revenue went to the more successful Star-Bulletin. By the 1980s that started to change when readership began to favor morning deliveries.

By the 1990s Gannett sold the Star-Bulletin to Liberty Newsapapers and re-negotiated the JOA split to have the Advertiser take 60% of the revenue generated by HNA.

Who left whom? HA built a nice new press that works wonders. The SB/Midweek color registration sucks big time. It not infrequently renders columnists with 4 eyes or cartoons that are unreadable.

Midweek's Urbanite offset press has the potential to get very high reproduction quality, on-par with Gannet's press in Kapolei. Just not as fast. HNA's Urbanite press had a reputation for producing some of the best-looking tabloids that ever came out of the old news building.

MidWeek hired a veteran printing consultant away from the Advertiser to improve print quality. The consultant made several recommendations to solve some very fundamental problems but those recommendations were never taken seriously. Another prepress expert also offered to help but he wasn't taken seriously either.

One of the biggest problems MidWeek faces is not having enough down time available to conduct routine maintenance. It also has to interrupt the longer run to print the Star-Bulletin in order to make time for other print contracts and to produce the various editions of MidWeek (some of which were since dropped). That means a run has to be set up all over again, and that takes time which may not be available.

When David Black bought the Bulletin and MidWeek, he faced a huge uphill battle. He had to find a press. He even had to scrounge for paper. But among his mistakes was failing to make full use of the available talent within his own company. Had the made the most of the people at hand, he could have gained a slight edge. When you're fighting for survival, every little bit counts.

[808golfer]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

I was around, but wasn't paying attention. That's why I asked.

I stand by my comments as to the quality of the product today.

Guess you wern't around for the 40 years of the old Goss press that the HNA (or your beloved Advertiser as it is today) printed on either. Does ANYBODY remember how bad it was??? AMAZINGLY....Gannett decided to finally replace the press that had VERY limited color positions and just god awful reproduction in general (made MW look like USAT on its worst day) a few weeks after Black bought an offset press...ya'all have really really really short and convienent memories.....go ahead...keep rooting for Goliath. You will get what you deserve. Already you are getting a much smaller percentage of news (but lots of color) and coming soon they will give you a much smaller broadsheet paper that will save them millions in newsprint costs...oh and they raised the price...

Not trying to be an ass but the SB and MW folks are working their ass off to survive and provide the community a choice but many of you just persist in taking shots at their imperfections like they are in the driver seat...maybe its front runner syndrome. Sorta like all of the discussion about the SB reducing its workforce by 17 and THA reducing by approximately 150 and no one really noticing....oh, and no raises for 3 years and now on top of that a 10% wage cut....but they don't have POPS....sigh

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Star-Bulletin on the Web

One of the biggest problems MidWeek faces is not having enough down time available to conduct routine maintenance. It also has to interrupt the longer run to print the Star-Bulletin in order to make time for other print contracts and to produce the various editions of MidWeek (some of which were since dropped). That means a run has to be set up all over again, and that takes time which may not be available.

I kinda wondered if that was the case. I couldn't understand how some of what I saw could be so bad unless it was some kind of time or economic pressure (can't throw out the "rejects". Cost too much to replace.)

Guess you weren't around for the 40 years of the old Goss press that the HNA (or your beloved Advertiser as it is today) printed on either. Does ANYBODY remember how bad it was???

Hmmm, most of my memory is b&w. No registration problems there! Yeah, the color was bad. But I didn't have much to compare it with for daily papers. But some of the stuff I've seen now is worse.

Not trying to be an ass but the SB and MW folks are working their ass off to survive and provide the community a choice but many of you just persist in taking shots at their imperfections like they are in the driver seat...

The results are what they are. How many people subscribe to both papers? I personally don't know of any. If they pick one, it's going to be based on what they perceive to be the better paper (whatever their criteria may be) - not by how hard the staff works. Bad color doesn't help. They may be better off sticking to black and white. But no doubt some consultant will tell them that color is more important even if a few readers can make anything out.