How bad is the surfing localism

[Stephen]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

I make this post as a Haole surfer in reference to the scene on the new show Smith . . . . . . .

I have to admit that I'm working on that whistle. I surf the south shore 4-7 days a week. I am still a malihini and have only been on O'ahu for a year. But as I mentioned earlier, I surf at least 4 if not 7 days a week on the south shore. I have many local/kama'aina/Hawaiian friends. I am, for the most part, a very friendly and outgoing sort. As well, I surf most of my days solo - a lone Haole in the water. Often times, I'm the only one in the water, which is best. Until a shark shows up! Back to the Haole b/s . . I don't mind the Haole tag, but I'd be curious to see someone throw around the G work for Asians or the N word for blacks/African Americans or S word for Hispanics. And if you missed it the last time, I don't mind being a Haole - it's not a sin. However, I have encountered several anti-Haole sentiments in the water - but I am usually able to diffuse them with my surf-ability. Sure, there have been occasions where a group of "local" thugs have pushed me to another break - I move on because I am not a fan of fighting and I'd rather catch 5 smaller waves than 1 bigger one. But then, I'm in the water waiting for a wave/my turn and I have to laugh . . . . a cute (and not much English speaking) Asian girl will paddle out and is "accepted" because they are not Haole. In any case, it makes me laugh. I apologize (sarcasm) for having white skin. But to get back on point, the scene in Smith made me laugh. I would never shoot anyone, but I hope territorial idiots think twice about flexing their muscles. I look forward to the return comments. I don't check the site often, so give me lots to face off to when I return.

Ragin Cajun.

[admin]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

There is a discussion of the show "Smith" here. There is a neverending debate over the meaining of the word haole here. I've split some of the tangents here into those threads.

[TuNnL]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

I was wondering where my post went. You and the other mods have your work cut out for you. Just with this one thread. I can see it returning to a vicious circle. Again. and again. and again.

[HaoleMoley]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

aloha,

i'm an ex-new jerseyan who moved to norcal and got hooked on surfing. i've only been surfing for a year. i'm visiting oahu (north shore) for the first time next month and i'd like to do a little bit of surfing. i don't expect much, just a wave or 2. i understand the sentiment behind "localism" and while i don't agree with beating anyone down i also understand some people just don't listen to anything else. i'll definitely only be spectating at the famous breaks but i'd like to know if anyone could recommend some more touristy breaks where i can paddle out with a big log and just take it easy -- i don't have a problem waiting in line all day in sunny weather with 80 degree water it seems waikiki is my best bet but i'll be staying on the north shore so i'm wondering if there's anything more mellow up there, mellow also meaning not double overhead on a shallow reef. mahalo a nui for any info!

-andy

p.s. in general, do islanders appreciate it when you try to use their words or does it just irritate them when some cracker says mahalo? late.

[Mahi Waina]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

-andy

p.s. in general, do islanders appreciate it when you try to use their words or does it just irritate them when some cracker says mahalo? late.

Don't apologize for being who you are - it only encourages the few racists.

If you can surf the big breaks, surf them!

[HaoleMoley]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Don't apologize for being who you are - it only encourages the few racists.

i'd never do that. we can't help being what we are. but i could see locals getting really tired of tourists trying to speak hawaiian (or pidgin) and seeing it as another culture co-opting their language and culture. i could also see locals appreciating someone trying to cater to the way they're used to hearing things out of respect. i'm guessing it all depends on how you use it...

If you can surf the big breaks, surf them!

not yet

[Lei Liko]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

i'd never do that. we can't help being what we are. but i could see locals getting really tired of tourists trying to speak hawaiian (or pidgin) and seeing it as another culture co-opting their language and culture. i could also see locals appreciating someone trying to cater to the way they're used to hearing things out of respect. i'm guessing it all depends on how you use it...

THANK YOU!

I have no problem with visitors trying to acclimate themselves to the culture, but I take issue with the co-opting like you mentioned above.

It also irks me when it seem like they're trying to hard. It's not meant to be "forced".

[pzarquon]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Bumping this thread may be reopening a can of worms, but it is relevant to the story I'm bringing up...

Kauai-born surfer Emery Kauanui was killed last year after tussling with and ultimately getting attacked by a group of five men who called themselves the "Bird Rock Bandits." Many see his death as the ultimate and inevitably tragic end of the territoriality and hostility observed at surf spots.

The case is back in the news as the murder trial approaches. There's a good write-up at The Independent (UK) with the background. But what really prompted me to post was the way this story was portrayed in an NPR interview this morning.

I've blogged my concerns in detail, but in short, I think the San Diego Union Tribune reporter that NPR interviewed was strongly implying that Kauanui's "Hawaiian machismo" was key to his involvement in the fight and, I guess, his own death. As if West Coast surfers and these La Jolla suspects didn't have any thuggish tendencies more generally ascribed to cocky men. Am I imagining things?

[Menehune Man]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Many see his death as the ultimate and inevitably tragic end of the territoriality and hostility observed at surf spots.

..., but in short, I think the San Diego Union Tribune reporter that NPR interviewed was strongly implying that Kauanui's "Hawaiian machismo" was key to his involvement in the fight and, I guess, his own death. As if West Coast surfers and these La Jolla suspects didn't have any thuggish tendencies more generally ascribed to cocky men. Am I imagining things?

It seems that they (this group of men) were ALL thuggish.
It happens... and not only "over there".
We've got it here in hawaii too.

I'm not even a surfer and know of two different surfer groups (gangs?) that can be quite, to put it lightly, INTIMIDATING.

[Nords]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Here's a different way to look at it: How many waves did all those guys miss while they were strutting around, huffing & puffing on each other? How did their testosterone poisoning help to improve their skills, honor the sport, or make others feel good about it?

Expecting to surf the most crowded breaks on the North Shore at the height of the season is like trying to get into the hottest club on the busiest night, or a table at the most popular restaurant without a reservation, or into Times Square for New Year's Eve. Even if you get in, you'll be so busy bumping elbows that you'll never have fun. It's not worth the effort.

Another issue is the opportunity. If you're retired or taking a morning off work, or taking your kids out on the weekend, chances are that a crowded day won't set you back. You can always go another time. Compare your laid-back attitude to a visitor who's flown in ($$), is sharing a crowded house ($$$), and has to be back at work next Monday ($$$$). Now send a wave their way and see who's more aggressive at catching it.

I wonder how many aggro surfers have spouses & kids who'd like to see what they're doing at "their" break. I wonder if they're proud to see themselves on YouTube imitating Hell's Angels at Altamonte. I wonder how Duke Kahanamoku would feel about localism.

Surf clubs are a great way to take care of a break and to make sure that it's not bulldozed by developers. But if you're in a surf club to fight then you're probably gonna find a better use for your time in a martial-arts studio. The guys throwing their fists have lost focus on the reason they're at the break in the first place. If you find yourself on a beach with this situation, just leave and find a better place. There's always another wave.

To answer the original question, I've never had a problem at White Plains. In fact the "Fence Line Crew" has gone out of their way to be welcoming and to share the stoke of a good day. And if you're gonna surf a crowded day without a leash then you're expected to be skilled enough (and considerate enough) to control your board and your moves. There's a reason that some hotdog's unleashed boards aren't retrieved by other surfers.

I think the pugilists have lost sight of the reason for bringing a board to the beach in the first place. I enjoy a few hours by myself as much as I enjoy meeting friends, especially if there are more waves than I have paddling muscles. But the most fun time of all is when I can teach someone to surf, and they catch all the waves... not me.

[TATTRAT]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

I think it all boils down to ignorance. and if you are a thug in the water, I'd say chances are, you are a thug on dry land.

It is a shame that there are people that actually think they "own" a break. Waves will crash and break long after they are dead and gone, and long before they ever existed, who the hell are they to claim nature as there own.

I think it is also a youth thing, I never experienced anyone over 18ish who was THAT much of an a-hole about things, but i could be way off base.

Life is too short to make others shorter...especially over something of which you have no ultimate control.


just my $.02

[acousticlady]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Bumping this thread may be reopening a can of worms, but it is relevant to the story I'm bringing up...

Kauai-born surfer Emery Kauanui was killed last year after tussling with and ultimately getting attacked by a group of five men who called themselves the "Bird Rock Bandits." Many see his death as the ultimate and inevitably tragic end of the territoriality and hostility observed at surf spots.

The case is back in the news as the murder trial approaches. There's a good write-up at The Independent (UK) with the background. But what really prompted me to post was the way this story was portrayed in an NPR interview this morning.

I've blogged my concerns in detail, but in short, I think the San Diego Union Tribune reporter that NPR interviewed was strongly implying that Kauanui's "Hawaiian machismo" was key to his involvement in the fight and, I guess, his own death. As if West Coast surfers and these La Jolla suspects didn't have any thuggish tendencies more generally ascribed to cocky men. Am I imagining things?

We saw the report on the news (NBC?) and didn't get that feel at all. In fact, when I heard the name, I kept wondering if he was from Hawaii. They just said CA. They also said (while they were all also surfers) that the fight originated from a spilled drink.

[MasterTang]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Haoli boy here who hung out on the north and west shores for years without incident.

Gotta respect, and appreciate the way it works, and you can't ever expect to paddle out and own a place. I saw many beatdowns that were worse than the one on the video, and it usually involved some idiot that paddled out acting like he was god's gift to the place.

The Emery story however is not so much related to surfing territorialism as it is to just running into a bunch of thugs. That's really sad to have followed over the past year, and it was really a needless act.

As far as territorialism, there are places in Oregon that should you elect to paddle out, you literally take your life in your hands, and by the time you make it back out of the water, your car is a broken shell of its former self. At least in Hawa'ii if you show respect, and lots of it, you'll stand a chance of staying in one piece.

If I was going to a new spot, I would hang on the beach for a while, not like an hour, but like days. I'd play in the manini stuff no one wanted, and stay out of the way, and eventually, work my way out. By that time I saw the pecking order, and never had an issue.

Still only one Hawa'ii, and I miss the beach....

[Kalalau]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Such an interesting thread...
I grew up in La Jolla so I knew the kids mentioned in Tom Wolfe's "The Pump House Gang" which is really, really hated by the locals...for obvious reasons! Some of them were a. holes, some were just regular surfers, but Windansea has always had a reputation as a strongly local beach.

The Bird Rock Bandits are being prosecuted as a gang so a sentence enhancement would follow if they get convicted. From local press reports, the victim, Kauanui, was pretty much a saint, widely beloved, and the Bandits, thugs.

Mr. Pipeline Butch Van Artsdalen was a classic Windansea local, he trained at Big Rock...Lobster Lounge...just down the beach from Windansea, for Pipeline. Was he the first guy to surf the Pipe? There's video of him there on what might have been the first wave. He beat me up in high school once. At age 35 he died of chirossis of the liver, in a hospital bed, supposedly with a beer in his hand, smuggled into his room by a bud.

I surfed with a bunch of lawyers for a while, their conversations could clear out a crowd in no time. So BORING. Like a pal who used to play basketball in a lawyers league once, he said every shot, practically every dribble, started a long argument so there was hardly any actual playing.

There was a connection from San Diego county coastal communities to the Islands in the '60's and '70's with health food stores, the rents in both locations were not bad and employees would migrate freely from store to store, island to island, and to San Diego county towns like Encinitas, Del Mar...Ocean Beach, etc. With the real estate boom here rents price out people living on health food store wages and last time I looked ... I can't even remember the name of it now, a nice health food store in so. Kona, was long gone. So is Windansea Natural Foods, for at least a decade. So the wheel turns.

[Kalalau]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

Big Rock breaks somewhat like Pipeline, it is a fast left. Its speed makes it challenging. It tubes. I saw Kalani Robb paddle out there once and take the place apart on a large swell. He was amazing. Bird Rock is an entirely different break miles down the coast, I have seen huge waves ridden there.