Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

Oh, man. I was all prepared (from a discussion yesterday) to get a little testy with kimo55 about how he attacks everyone who talks about coming to Hawai`i. I thought I had a bunch of pithy comments and witticisms to fling...and then I see this discussion.

dlkbc's reaction made me realize EXACTLY what it is that kimo55 is trying to protect.

Trying to fit in and be less obtrusive as a visitor to someone else's home and culture is admirable. Trying to pass yourself off as "a local" is insulting.

Those who know me (from this board and from my life) know that I have a lot of links to Hawai`i; no need to list them here. For family reasons, I expect to move to Hawai`i someday and to finish my life there, so I spend a lot of time and energy learning how to avoid being just another ignorant mainland haole.

But, to some degree, I always will be exactly that - no matter what. I will NEVER be "local," no matter what I do, no matter how long I am there, no matter how well I fit in. And I accept that; no use getting all huffy and hurt about it - can't change the reality of my birth, my background, my upbringing.

I have a sense of pride about who I am, where I'm from, what I've done; I don't want to trade that for some image I may hold of somebody or someplace else. I may want to get to know what that somebody else can teach me, but if I want to pretend to be someone I'm not, I'll try to rejuvenate my old acting "career."

Oh - and I ain't gonna waste breath telling folks in Hawai`i that "we did this or that better somewhere else."

Okay. Here's a goofy tip I actually use, even though I'm already local. Because when I visit Hilo, my wife and I might be mistaken for tourists. I have to rent a rental car, and locals can spot those a mile away. So I go to Longs, and buy a distinctly local bumper sticker. Say, "Got Poi?"

Nothing wrong with pretending my rental car isn't, however. We always keep the latest Longs ad flung in the back seat. No need to remove 'em when returning the car, either.

[LikaNui]

Re: Visitor wants to FAKE going 'local' right away

well don't that take the cake. for over the top mainland pushy arrogance.

Yep, it does take the cake.
Buggah comes in here and asks us how to fake being a local and expects happy-happy answers.
Sheesh.

[tikiyaki]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

Even tho' I butt heads with Kimo on stuff , I have to side with him on this one, like Leo Lakio said, pretending to be local is pretty bad.
It makes me think of a guy I used to work with who was obsessed with the whole NY/Italian thing.He was from Cleveland or somewhere and just was always trying to do DiNiro circa Goodfellas impersonations, and just trying to be one of those classic NY Italian types. Being of 100% Sicilian descent and from NY, I found it all a bit strange, and kinda thought it was silly, but I humored the guy.
The attempt at a NY accent is always good for a laugh, because I can spot it a mile away. So, I can see how trying to act local and speak Pidgin would be insulting to a real Local. I would think that this is numero uno on the list of DON'TS with regard to moving to Hawai'i.
In other words, respect that which is not yours, and don't attempt to take it for yourself.Probably a good rule to live by.

[sinjin]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

I will NEVER be "local," no matter what I do, no matter how long I am there, no matter how well I fit in. And I accept that; no use getting all huffy and hurt about it - can't change the reality of my birth, my background, my upbringing.

I agree with LL. If I myself am ever lucky enough to live in Hawaii I"ll let Hawaii make me over if she so chooses. When I start using pidgin accidentally I'll feel comfortable using it but not before.

Kimo's right but still a butt.

[Bard]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

If I myself am ever lucky enough to live in Hawaii I"ll let Hawaii make me over if she so chooses.

I can sure get behind that.

The thing is, darned if you do, darned if you don't: you "keep your mainland ways" and people get angry at you for not fitting in. You try to fit in, and they get angry at you for trying to be something you're not in their culture.

This brings to mind an analogy from my own .. uhh "heritage" .. I can just imagine some guy from NY going to Texas and wanting to become a cowboy. "Come on you guys, why don't you teach me how to be a cowboy Texan so I can fit in?" I can tell you pretty quickly what the response to that would be. "Why don'choo come over here pertty boy so I can tea'choo a lesson?" Heck I can even hear them on a forum telling people not to bother trying, because if you didn't grow up there you can't be a "real Texan".

I dunno what my point is except that this is another one of those things that seems to be true anywhere.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

This brings to mind an analogy from my own .. uhh "heritage" .. I can just imagine some guy from NY going to Texas and wanting to become a cowboy. "Come on you guys, why don't you teach me how to be a cowboy Texan so I can fit in?" I can tell you pretty quickly what the response to that would be. "Why don'choo come over here pertty boy so I can tea'choo a lesson?" Heck I can even hear them on a forum telling people not to bother trying, because if you didn't grow up there you can't be a "real Texan".

Hence the long history of successful "dude ranches." You can ALWAYS make a buck from selling the "real experience" somewhere. (So, who's first to sign up for my "be just like a real Iowan" tour? Anyone?? Hell-ooo??? Aw, crap.)

[lavagal]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

I had been meaning to ask this but never got around to posting, and this seems related...

I've got a book from the library written by two UofH guys about Pidgin. Been trying to learn from that, the internet, and of course on here. I can understand a lot alright now but would probably make a doofus of myself trying to speak with it at the moment. Is this something I should keep pursuing if I want to go there? I'm no stranger to languages (took Latin in college and studied Japanese on my own) and it's been fun learning so far.

DO NOT DO THIS.

[kimo55]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

The thing is, darned if you do, darned if you don't: you "keep your mainland ways" and people get angry at you for not fitting in. You try to fit in, and they get angry at you for trying to be something you're not in their culture.

sound like ya wanna have conflict no matter what. presupposition is not an admirable thing in this case. Nor is obstinacy and going against the advise offered here when ya ask:
"well, my inner scholar is gonna make me try to learn pidgin online anyway!"


"people get angry at you for not fitting in"
uh, no. ainokea if you do or not. But i know MANY who would get pist if ya faked it and it is transparently obvious you were one of the growing legions who tried to learn to act local as soon as possible.
I don't recall seeing too often, locals going:
"Looka that tourist. Acting like a tourist! Why don't he fit in and talk fake pidgin and do the haole shaka more!?"

[kimo55]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

I dunno what my point is except that this is another one of those things that seems to be true anywhere.

you may do well to curtail the "well it all sounds like the same problems everywhere. It's just like we have it on the mainland. SOooo... I must be able to tackle it... "as soon as possible."
Nope. Just cus ya took an arthur murray dance class and can do the hustle ok, dun mean you can do the hula immediately too.
Just cuz ya picked up japanese language fleetingly, don't mean fer a sec you can toss the cape of pidgin over yer shoulders and be mistaken for a local.

again.
Pidgin ain't a language to be learned
"Well, this is exactly how you spell "da kine", THIS is what it means. and THIS is HOW you pronounce it, haole.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

serious question:

If I were to move to Alabama tomorrow and tried my best to mimic a southern accent and speak with the colloquialisms that they use, could someone tell right away, and would I be risking a chance that s/he finds it offensive? What about if I were to move the New York and try to sound like Rocky Balboa, would people even notice or care?

I think the bigger picture here is about the elements of acclimation and acculturation. It takes time. So to whomever: be patient and aware. Stay long enough in one place and the place overtakes you. It will happen.

[tikiyaki]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

serious question:

If I were to move to Alabama tomorrow and tried my best to mimic a southern accent and speak with the colloquialisms that they use, could someone tell right away, and would I be risking a chance that s/he finds it offensive? What about if I were to move the New York and try to sound like Rocky Balboa, would people even notice or care?
.

Hey Now !!! Rocky Balboa is from Philly, not NY. It's a different accent. :-)
And, yes, it would be noticed, but I don't think it would be grounds for a beating. Can the same be said for Faking Pidgin in Hawaii ? (An honest question, no sarcasm)

[kimo55]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

that would be one of Pua'i's points.

[Vanguard]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

It makes me think of a guy I used to work with who was obsessed with the whole NY/Italian thing

I also have a story!

We used to take in boarders wanting to learn English, one of them was a young Japanese guy, who seemed to be from a well-to-do family. One day, he asked me if I knew any "black families in the ghetto" that he could board with, so he could "learn the ways of the black people" and "learn how to rap".

The last time I saw him was when I was helping him move stuff in his new apartment in a neighborhood that was predominantly African-American.

Wherever he is now, I hope he learned a lot. :P

[Bard]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

Well, I feel properly welcomed now... having been chastised thoroughly by the Prof. :P I've learned some interesting things from this thread for sure.

Thanks.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Visitor wants to go 'local' right away

Well, I feel properly welcomed now... having been chastised thoroughly by the Prof. :P I've learned some interesting things from this thread for sure.

Thanks.

Trial by fire - survive kimo55, you just might do ok.