Why to vote Republican this time.......

[Linkmeister]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

calling the president "Dubya" and all that

Mel, one branch of the Republican campaign aimed at women is called "W is for Women." Don't be silly.

[Konaguy]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

Mel,
Your spin on it is similar to my grandfather who is die die hard conservative
and is 85 years old. For that reason I never talk to him because he drives me
up the wall. As does die hard liberals drive me up the way. Neither extreme
is right in my opinion. Thus I am in between or have a moderate opinion in most things.Thus I find it offensive you label each opposing view to yours as liberal. Which I am not by any stretch of the imagination.


You probably do not care one cent how the federal deficit has exploded
under Bush's watch. Neither does most baby boomers in my opinion. But I do
care as I will be paying off that debt when you are long gone.

In my opinion if the president wants to reduce taxes regardless for
the wealthy or whoever they should reduce government services equally.
It is not right to be running a large deficit. If you were in business if you
were losing money every month eventually if that was not stopped you
have to shut down. Not with the government they simply raise the debt
ceiling.

[Miulang]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

Having nothing to do the last four days but lie in bed with the remote and watch hours and hours of analysis on all the cable networks (yes, even FOX), I have come to some conclusions about the state of this country and the world at this stage of history:

1. The country is deeply divided.
2. There aren't many apathetic people around; everybody's got an opinion.
3. Things are happening outside of this country which will force the US to rethink some of the things it's doing today in order to remain a good international citizen.
4. The chasms of opinions are so wide apart that it may take years for the country to heal.
5. The war in Iraq will continue after the elections and no matter who wins, Congress will be asked for another $70 billion to fund the war machine.

The country is in the midst of a civil war; only it's not one being fought North v. South or with guns. It's being fought with ideology and invectives, neconservatives v. moderate conservatives and everyone else to the left. How did we get there? Was it through laziness? It certainly can't have been through limited intelligence. Was it because we all thought things were going along fine and there was no need to make sure things would continue to go that way?

That everyone has an opinion now is a good thing. That apathy is being mowed down by strong opinions is good. What is not good is when opinions are not carefully thought out, when people voice opinions carefully crafted by professional psychological operatives who know how to play mind games and to use those games to effectively manipulate masses of people into one mindset. When people use their own minds and intelligence and research issues and then can come to an educated opinion, then that voice is a good thing. When someone can only parrot a party line and a "I always have been and always will be a Republican/Democrat" betrays that fact that bothparties have had their shares of pearls and swines.

The US refusal to ratify the Kyoto Protocol, even as industrialized countries like Russia and France and Germany and Japan have signed it, means that we refuse to acknowledge that as one of the largest consumers of all natural resources and therefore one of the largest contributors to the Greenhouse Effect, we should join in international efforts to help save this Earth for generations after us.

Yasser Arafat of Palestine is today in a hospital in Paris getting medical attention for some sort of low platelet count condition. There are conflicting reports about his health status. But the fact that there may be an opportunity once again to bring about the peaceful resolution of conflict in the Sinai without having him as an obstacle means maybe the Middle East can start to return to the stability that will be required in order for the world to survive. It was interesting to note that Osama bin Laden made reference to the Lebanon war as the thing that made him join the terrorists.

And how different can our definition of "freedom" be from someone say, in Cuba? I think it all boils down to this: "Freedom" is the ability to be able to have a home, food, a job, to be healthy and safe from military oppression. It has nothing to do with any governmental ideology, no "Communism v. Capitalism" no "Socialism v. Democracy". People who insist that it's "our way or no way" don't understand the thousands of years of cultural and historical influences that shape any country but ours also respect their past; that's why they can't understand when Aztecs mount a protest against Walmart opening a store in an archeologically-sensitive area.

And the war. I was absolutely amazed when I heard that the Defense Department was going back to Congress in January to ask for another $70 billion to support the armed forces in Iraq. I was also appalled to learn that at least 6,000 troops were being ordered to stay in Iraq beyond when they were originally told so that they could provide support for the upcoming Iraqi elections in January. I was even more surprised to hear Bill Clinton, in a rally the other day, tell people that we were going to have to have at least 20,000 more troops in Iraq.

What will each one of us do when all the confetti and the lawsuits have been cleared away and a "winner" of the Presidential election (and all other elections) is declared? Gloat? Tuck our tails between our legs and whimper? Vow never to get involved in the political process again?

America really is at a crossroads this year. Too many "interesting" things have happened, too many "revelations" told for it not to be. My only hope is that each and every one of us takes a moment to pray for us all.

Because I am a firm believer in the cyclical nature of history, I also believe that the pendulum of this country has now swung as far right as we will ever let it. It's now time to let the pendulum fall back to the middle.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

Miulang, of all the stuff you have written what you wrote above makes complete
sense to me and I wholeheartedly agree with all your assessments. In my opinion the nation has swung too much to the right. Thus I strongly feel it is time itswung back to the middle so it is fair to everyone not just for people who
are wealthy or powerful.

[mel]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

Mel, one branch of the Republican campaign aimed at women is called "W is for Women." Don't be silly.

Never heard of that one.

[mel]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

You probably do not care one cent how the federal deficit has exploded under Bush's watch. Neither does most baby boomers in my opinion. But I do care as I will be paying off that debt when you are long gone.

In my opinion if the president wants to reduce taxes regardless for
the wealthy or whoever they should reduce government services equally.
It is not right to be running a large deficit. If you were in business if you
were losing money every month eventually if that was not stopped you
have to shut down.

You know what, I am all for reducing government services to help sustain tax reductions. We can start with the National Foundation for Culture and the Arts, and on the local level, the State Foundation of Culture and Arts.

Arts is not an essential service and I am sure the private sector does fine supporting the arts on their own.

So on the point of reducing government services I am for it. The Bush administration probably has not come around to doing it but I am sure with some urging from congress I am willing to bet in time that he will do so. I'd rather risk having him in there vs. that of Sen. Kerry as President, because as pointed out in this thread or probably elsewhere on this board, Kerry is not the person we should have in the White House to deal with terrorism and homeland security. The nation cannot trust someone who may want to hand over command of U.S. forces to outside nations or the U.N.

Also one of the main reasons to vote Republican this year, especially on the national level is to insure that when Supreme Court Justices are appointed that those justices be people who have respect for American tradition and conservative values.

Otherwise we are headed to a moral hell of gay marriages and all of that.

[mel]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

I have come to some conclusions about the state of this country and the world at this stage of history:

1. The country is deeply divided.
2. There aren't many apathetic people around; everybody's got an opinion.
3. Things are happening outside of this country which will force the US to rethink some of the things it's doing today in order to remain a good international citizen.
4. The chasms of opinions are so wide apart that it may take years for the country to heal.
5. The war in Iraq will continue after the elections and no matter who wins, Congress will be asked for another $70 billion to fund the war machine.

Because I am a firm believer in the cyclical nature of history, I also believe that the pendulum of this country has now swung as far right as we will ever let it. It's now time to let the pendulum fall back to the middle.

I more or less can agree with you on the 5 main items you brought out in your last post. As for a swing to the middle, where is that? It seems no one wants to be there... it is either left or right as far as I see it. I am not ready to sacrifice my values or principles just to be in the theoretical middle.

[Konaguy]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

You know what, I am all for reducing government services to help sustain tax reductions.

Amazingly we are on the same page on this one Mel.

The Bush administration probably has not come around to doing it but I am sure with some urging from congress I am willing to bet in time that he will do so. I'd rather risk having him in there vs. that of Sen. Kerry as President

This is where we do not agree. To sacrifice the long term financial future
for short term security issues is extremely shortsided.Essentially what is occuring is the government is morgaging the future to pay for the present.
Which I do not think is fair as your generation won't have to pay it off.
But my generation will.

They are raiding the Social security funds to pay the deficit too. What that means is probably when I retire in 40 years there won't be anything left
as the baby boomer generation will have sucked it all up.

Since Congress is controlled by the Republicans I highly doubt there is any
incentive to to clean up the fiscal mess that Bush has created.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

he President's request would raise the Arts Endowment's budget by $18 million from $121 million in FY 2004 to $139.4 million

NEA Press release January 29, 2004.

Let's see. $139.4 Million. Overall Budget for 2005: $2.4 Trillion.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...05_020304.html

Um. Talk about some real cuts, Mel. NEA is what... .00001% or something?

Check out this whole section to find cuts that are meaningful.

NEA is manini, but it's been a favorite whipping boy for Republicans since Jesse Helms and Newt Gingrich. What they never said was how small a piece of the overall pie it was. Get real.

[Miulang]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

I more or less can agree with you on the 5 main items you brought out in your last post. As for a swing to the middle, where is that? It seems no one wants to be there... it is either left or right as far as I see it. I am not ready to sacrifice my values or principles just to be in the theoretical middle.

Mel, win or lose, you live in the same house as the ones you're throwing stones at. It's important to disagree, but it's also important not to be dogmatic or expect to win all the time. If the debate is heated, so be it. But let the debate be one filled with to-the-point factual information and not half-truths and name calling. No one can censure you if you speak your honest beliefs.

What would be more neoconservative than the current leadership of the Republican Party? Nazi Germany? Do we have to go to that extreme before the pendulum swings back toward the center? I truly believe we're only about 3 or 4 ticks short of that extreme end today. We don't have the concentration camps, but we have the beginnings already of a society in decline for the advantage of a few (the Business Elite). We have advisors to the President who feed him only what the ideologues want him to hear, and the policies, we know, cannot be coming from Bush because he was a failed Businessman (more than once), a failed politician, a half-hearted student, a rich daddy's boy who didn't fulfill his military obligation. This man, and most of the people who surround him, are vindictive, hold grudges and totally incapable of admitting to making mistakes.

There is some speculation (I saw this on a documentary on A&E I believe), that the reason Dick Cheney was selected to be GWB's running mate was because the Republican party was afraid that Dubya didn't have the smarts or the experience to handle the national office. So Dick was brought in to "toughen" up George to the ways of Washington, DC. So in some ways, Dubya has grown into a version of Dick Cheney, especially in the area of international relations. If Bush is re-elected, who will succeed him? Cheney might be in jail because of his Halliburton ties, and he himself when asked has always said that he never aspired to Presidential office.

In a lot of ways, I can't really blame Prez Bush for being who he is :malleable, only open to opinions that agree with him, totally vindictive and above reproach for anything. In the very beginning of his tenure, he actually did try to heal the country's wounds by offering key positions within his administration to Democrats; but they all soon left when they were forced into the psychological warfare that is waged on anyone who doesn't agree with the inner cadre of policy makers.

If Kerry is elected, I can guarantee that his administration will be filled with people who will constantly challenge his opinion and engage in honest debate. He will air those opinions openly rather than hide them, only to have them appear in reports in the press later (unlike the current administration). I also believe he will be the first one to admit when a mistake has been made and will do whatever it takes to correct it; that's what someone who cares about others does, whether the wrong was committed against an individual or an entire nation. It's the being able to realize that in every situation, not everything is cast in black and white/ right or wrong and to talk about the varying shades of gray that help bring the pendulum back to equilibrium.

The unfortunate endgame is that the world can no longer support a "winner take all" mentality.

Miulang

[mel]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

The liberal majority here on this board don't want to give in to conservative values and continue with the name calling... just like in your post and your reference to the president as "Dubya". Liberals will never be satisfied until gay marriage is the law of the land, the U.S. kisses ass with the United Nations and other third world countries, our military is handed over to the control of outside powers and liberal justices are interpreting the laws from the supreme court.

The nation will go to hell in a handbasket if Kerry is to become our president. I am sure the raving liberals here think just the opposite otherwise none of these long winded posts in various areas on this board would exist.

But that is a given at this sometimes crazy virtual meeting place.

There is no middle groud.

As Aaron S. proudly displays in his signature line: "The game is tonight, We have to play, We might as well win."

There is no option if either side loses. One side will be pushed down like hopeless matchsticks and the other side's agenda will carry the day into our future. I just hope conservatives don't end up being matchsticks.

We cannot afford it.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

The liberal majority here on this board don't want to give in to conservative values

Why should I? I don't expect you to give in to mine. Honest discussion is a good thing, don't you think? It doesn't have to be either/or, or "my way or the highway." Politics is the art of compromise, remember?

[Miulang]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

Mel, Mel, Mel. I asked this question a few weeks ago: what is the "losing" side of this election gonna do? Tuck their tails between their legs and run away? Whichever side wins had better be watching its back because the "losers" will be keeping such a close eye out for anything looking suspiciously like shenanigans that the lawyers and the media are already salivating.

What's gonna cause the correction back to moderation, if Kerry doesn't win this time, is the horrible backlash that will occur in this country from the voters in the 2008 election, because we all know that if Bush wins, the policies will remain the same. And the backlash in 2008 will have the Republican Party suffering all kinds of defeat in Congress so they are only a shadow of their current force. The pendulum will swing, Mel, it's just a matter of time.

Will you at least agree with me that there can be varying degrees of
conservatives, just as there are varying degrees of liberals? Most of those inbetweens are the undecideds in any election and they also have the longest memories. And just because a "conservative" doesn't agree with your views he isn't necessarily a "liberal"?

My guess is if you took the "Whole Brain" inventory test, you would probably be very left limbic (bottom left quadrant). Maybe even off the scale left limbic. You know nothing about gray. You only know right v. wrong, black v. white, good v. evil. I started out in that quadrant when I was in Hawaii. When I came up here to the mainland, I went the total opposite direction: right cerebral--total space cadet. The object of Whole Brain is to identify your strengths (and weaknesses) so 1) you can work on becoming more moderate (well-balanced) and 2) so you can recognize these things in people and organizations so you can put together a balanced team. A "balanced" team is one with representatives of all quadrants: from the red necks to the space cadets, the bean counters and law enforcers. That way no one group will overpower another with its opinions. We do not have a "whole brained" Administration at this point. It is populated with left limbic ideologues who cannot hear different voices and punish those who dare to speak out.

Left limbics make excellent law enforcement people; right cerebrals are good writers, artists and like dealing with concepts rather than concrete things.

The funny thing is as I've gotten older, I'm seeing myself move back towards being "whole brained" again: I can appreciate dogmatic people (makes me glad I'm not one anymore) and see hope and possibility where others can only see doom. Maybe in some cultures they call this the "wisdom that comes with age". I dunno. I protested the VietNam War in Washington, DC. I marched to keep us out of el Salvador. I was even a member for a short period of time in the Students for a Democratic Society. I think certain things within a government don't change, regardless of who's in power, but the ways that the power is distributed and used (and abused) can mean the difference between our continuing to be considered the "Bright Light in the West" or the "Beacon of Doom".

Miulang

[j3rr3y]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

mcnabbmcnow, I feel the same way.
Our security should come before all the other issues, because without security, no one will be able to even consider issues like abortion and gay marriage.

Bush has my vote this time.

edit: and mel, I couldn't have put it better myself.
I have never really been loyal to either party, but the democrats really seem to just be doing everything they can to get what they want... not what the people want. I think they need to do some major changes in the party, or they would have lost at least one vote for the forseeable future.

[Miulang]

Re: Why to vote Republican this time.......

I have never really been loyal to either party, but the democrats really seem to just be doing everything they can to get what they want... not what the people want. I think they need to do some major changes in the party, or they would have lost at least one vote for the forseeable future.

Congratulations for being an undecided who made up his mind (and for being honest about it)! I think the Democrats need to talk to you about where you think they have failed to meet your expectations. That's what any company that wanted your business would do.

Miulang