Obama and Race

[matapule]

I do not want to hijack the thread on Hawai'i Independence, so starting this thread.

But I must refute your assertion that Obama has chosen to identify himself as “black.” He has told the story countless times quite proudly of his white Kansan mother and black Kenyan father, and has made it part of his campaign biography.

That is exactly my point. Why does he keep re-telling that story? Why does John McCain keep re-telling the story about his captivity in Viet Nam? I guess it is because these are simplistic rallying points that most Americans can relate. I guess the complex issues of environment, economy, and geopolitics and their interdependence are just too complicated for the average American to understand.

I so wanted Obama to step out of the mold, be bold in his approach and visions for the future. He was a fresh face with so much potential. I wanted Obama to talk about race...not his, but what he was going to do about uniting people of different racial backgrounds, including native Hawaiians, into a common people with common goals for the macro-issues. He certainly has the potential charisma to do that unlike his opponent who looks like a prune and is about as exciting as a wet mop. But it takes more than charisma to bring about a Renaissance. It takes innovative programs with visionary zeal. I saw that potential for Obama in the beginning. Now, he is sounding just like a retread from the past.

I am rapidly losing interest in the November election. Just more of the same "tu'u mama'o" in the same tired old rhetoric. But if that's what the American people want, that's what they deserve.

If you sense a bit of frustration and cynicism on my part, you are correct. What am I missing?

[TuNnL]

Re: Obama and Race

although he is half black and half white, he has chosen to identify himself as "black."

I must refute your assertion that Obama has chosen to identify himself as “black.” He has told the story countless times quite proudly of his white Kansan mother and black Kenyan father, and has made it part of his campaign biography.

That is exactly my point. Why does he keep re-telling that story?

So that people like matapule will not mistakenly believe he is only identifying himself as “black.” The story proves he is also identifying himself as “white.” Duh.

I wanted Obama to talk about race...not his, but what he was going to do about uniting people of different racial backgrounds, including native Hawaiians, into a common people with common goals for the macro-issues.

Obama encourages all races and groups to come together in virtually every speech he gives. It is a major campaign theme for him. There is no one-soundbite solution to “unite people of different racial backgrounds,” which is why none of candidates have articulated such a solution. The issue is a complicated one that would take at least fifty pages to discuss. That’s why he has left that issue to be explored within his two bestselling books. He does however, provide some hints in his 35-minute speech on race.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Obama and Race

I am rapidly losing interest in the November election. Just more of the same "tu'u mama'o" in the same tired old rhetoric. But if that's what the American people want, that's what they deserve.

If you sense a bit of frustration and cynicism on my part, you are correct. What am I missing?

Nothing, my friend. I, too, would like to see politicians "break the mold" - but those politicians do not appear to convince enough of an electorate to support them, beyond the state level.

On a national level, candidates are continually pandering to the center, firmly hugging the middle of the road, while trying to hang onto enough of their supporters slightly to one side or the other. Meanwhile, voters who are farther away from the middle are continually dissatisfied; notice how hard lefties are angry that Sen. Obama has now revealed himself to be more conservative than he was during the primary season, in order to capture more non-Democratic voters? (I give Sen. Clinton credit here for being that way herself all along.) And deeply conservative voters are disgusted with Sen. McCain.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[timkona]

Re: Obama and Race

Obama, Kamehameha Schools, Affirmative Action, Japanese Chamber of Commerce, Ku Klux Klan, Black Congressional Caucus.


I so don't get it.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Obama and Race

I so don't get it.

No, sir, you certainly don't. But it's a pleasure to discuss it with you anyway.

Perhaps the problem with us, Tim, is that we are middle-class white men. We are part of the class/race/gender that has been the dominant force in this nation for most of the past two centuries. We can only attempt to grasp minority issues from an outside perspective.

While I would never try to force you to agree with a different p.o.v. on race-based issues such as those you listed, I hope you are making a serious attempt to understand what they mean to those whose lives are more intimately affected by them, to see why they are important to people whose lives have taken different paths from yours or mine - particularly when those paths have been adjusted due to their class/race/gender.

[timkona]

Re: Obama and Race

I grew up poor, on a farm. Worked 3 jobs, eating bologna, while scratching my way through college. Have tried to start 3 different businesses, all of which were met with medium success. Am finally a homeowner (just barely) and still eating bologna trying to make ends meet.

I think hardship is a way of life for all of us. It's no harder for anybody than it has been for me. In fact, were I a different color I may have qualified for some scholarship, or some great job, or perhaps some exceptional school. Oh and btw, it's very likely that I am not nearly as 'white' as you think I am. Neither by birth nor culture.

More like olive spotted, with cream undertones, and red highlights.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Obama and Race

Oh and btw, it's very likely that I am not nearly as 'white' as you think I am. Neither by birth nor culture. More like olive spotted, with cream undertones, and red highlights.

I appreciate the clarification, Tim.

Have you looked into a "support group" for your own particular mix? Maybe start one - see if you can create foundational support for educational scholarships - then it'll turn out that your daughter is the only qualified applicant!

Oh, wait a minute --- that's no different from your present familial obligations for supporting her collegiate future, is it? Sorry - thought I had something for you there.

P.S.) I still like bologna, too, though I never had it fried until I was an adult. Give it a shot, if you haven't already. According to my mother, we grew up quite poor as well - though she did a marvelous job of hiding it. It's only been upon more recent review of those years that I am astounded to find we didn't end up on the streets back then.

[/off-topic]

Hearing all the discussion during this election season about how close we were to having "the first black" or "the first female" president both pleased and disturbed me. Pleased, in that I am happy to see the day occur during my life; disturbed, in that it reminds me how far we still have to do to reach the point where it just --- doesn't --- matter. (I think that's a goal Tim & I share.) My personal assessments of Sens. Obama and Clinton had absolutely nothing to do with race or gender.

E.T.A.) NY Times Magazine's cover story this past weekend - "Is Obama the End of Black Politics?"

[salmoned]

Re: Obama and Race

The mold has worked for how long? Why change what doesn't appear busted? If someone comes along and wants their personal life and story to remain personal, who only wants to present and promote their new ideas on policy and practice, they'll be as assuredly snubbed as I have been in HT. As much as we (as a nation) might want someone who can wisely consider only the good of the world (or even just the country) when making policy, we could never be moved to actually nominate, support or vote for such a person because we are too fond of our special interests.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Obama and Race

As much as we (as a nation) might want someone who can wisely consider only the good of the world (or even just the country) when making policy, we could never be moved to actually nominate, support or vote for such a person because we are too fond of our special interests.

As much as it may shock you to know this, I agree with you. (And I generally don't waste board space to just say simply that I agree or disagree with a post - but considering our discussion elsewhere, I thought you might enjoy that mild shock.)

[matapule]

Re: Obama and Race

As much as we (as a nation) might want someone who can wisely consider only the good of the world (or even just the country) when making policy, we could never be moved to actually nominate, support or vote for such a person because we are too fond of our special interests.

And therein is the crux of the problem.

[matapule]

Re: Obama and Race

I grew up poor, on a farm. Worked 3 jobs, eating bologna,

Hey, weren't we part of the same family? And be careful what you say about bologna. That's my soul food! I grew up on ground bologna sandwiches - the cheapest bologna, some cheese, pickles all ground together. It was always part of our picnic fare up in the Sierras. Sunday morning was scrambled eggs and fired bologna.

I think all bologna eaters are a special group and deserve special considerations. We even have a ready made slogan: WE'RE FULL OF BOLOGNA AND WE KNOW IT!

[Random]

Re: Obama and Race

I grew up poor, on a farm. Worked 3 jobs, eating bologna, while scratching my way through college. Have tried to start 3 different businesses, all of which were met with medium success. Am finally a homeowner (just barely) and still eating bologna trying to make ends meet.

I think hardship is a way of life for all of us. It's no harder for anybody than it has been for me. In fact, were I a different color I may have qualified for some scholarship, or some great job, or perhaps some exceptional school. Oh and btw, it's very likely that I am not nearly as 'white' as you think I am. Neither by birth nor culture.

More like olive spotted, with cream undertones, and red highlights.

So, you have worked on plantation [Dole, Libby's, Del Monte, etc.] with fellow workers who are Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese, Filipino, Hawaiian, living in plantation barracks, or at least your parents did?

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Obama and Race

I think hardship is a way of life for all of us. It's no harder for anybody than it has been for me. In fact, were I a different color I may have qualified for some scholarship, or some great job, or perhaps some exceptional school.

As anyone who has personally experienced racial discrimination can tell you, be careful of what you wish for. Gotta take the bad with the good. And when it comes to minorities who live in a bigoted community, there's a lot more bad than good.

Oh and btw, it's very likely that I am not nearly as 'white' as you think I am. Neither by birth nor culture.

In that case, what are you complaining about?

[TuNnL]

Re: Obama and Race

It's no harder for anybody than it has been for me. In fact, were I a different color I may have qualified for some scholarship, or some great job, or perhaps some exceptional school.

Tim, the fact that you continue to spew this ignorant garbage proves you haven’t learned a thing during the time you have lived here. Living on the farm doesn’t even begin to compare to the hardship suffered by nearly every Japanese family here in the islands. These men were lured to the islands with the promise of riches, only to be exploited for slave wages on sugar plantations, while their family remained in Japan for years, or even decades... unable to afford the move.

Beginning after December 7, 1941, Japanese men, women and children were rounded up by the thousands, and warehoused in internment camps where some died due to the squalid living conditions. The only real difference between these camps and Nazi Germany concentration camps, is they didn’t slaughter the inhabitants. Property — sometimes large tracts of land — were confiscated and never returned by the federal government. Young Japanese American men enlisted in the U.S. Army and were shipped off to Germany and the European theatre where they fought bravely, not just for their country as true patriots, but for their imprisoned loved ones. Their unit — the 442nd Regimental Combat Team stands today as the most decorated unit in the history of the U.S. Army.

There were no “equal opportunity employment” laws for these veterans or their family back then. They simply had rise above the ashes and start over. The white aristocracy they fought to expunge from the ranks of power is representative of the class struggle fought by African Americans and Chinese railroad workers on the U.S. mainland. And you want to talk about hardship? Puh-leez. Since when was a white boy like yourself or anyone in your family
(blood, not marriage) ever discriminated against because of your race? And don’t confuse race and ethnicity. Two entirely different things.

[Kalalau]

Re: Obama and Race

I had understood that people of Japanese ancestry living in Hawai'i during WW2 were not herded away to detainment camps, that that only happened on the mainland, mainly in California. This is a big change from the official history.