Obama and Race

[matapule]

Re: Obama and Race

Japanese men, women and children were rounded up by the thousands, and warehoused in internment camps where some died due to the squalid living conditions. The only real difference between these camps and Nazi Germany concentration camps, is they didn’t slaughter the inhabitants. Property — sometimes large tracts of land — were confiscated and never returned

Tunnl, go easy. I agree with much of what you say, but you are over reaching here. I grew up in the San Joaquin Valley with Japanese kids that were born in those Internment Camps with names like Okamura, Kawasaki, Matsumoto, Nakamura, etc. As I recall there were three different camps in Arizona where Japanese Americans from California were shipped after the outbreak of hostilities. Although they were internment camps, they didn't even come close to being Nazi concentration camps. I talked to my friends parents. They told me they were treated well, they had plenty of food, they had plenty of clothing, and they had heat during the winter. Maybe they lied to me, but I don't think so. Did it leave a bad taste in their mouths? Yes it did!, but it wasn't even close to a concentration camp.

As far as confiscation of property, I did not know of any Japanese family that lost their property as a result of internment, but I'm sure it did happen, I just don't know how often. What happened is that the Japanese' Anglo neighbors watched over their property while they were gone. There were, and continue to be, strong neighborly ties between adjacent land owners in that area, despite a difference in ethnic background - even Japanese during WWII.

The whole internment debacle was a travesty, but let's not overstate the case.

[sinjin]

Re: Obama and Race

"In Hawaii, there was no mass internment of Japanese-Americans, even though they made up about 1/3 of the population. The Japanese-Americans workers were crucial to the sugar and pineapple plantations. However, about 1800 Japanese-Americans in Hawaii were sent to internment camps in the mainland U.S. These interned Hawaiian Japanese-Americans were prominent in the community or otherwise thought to be some sort of risk. Unfortunately, the entire family was interned, not just those who were considered to be disloyal or a risk to national security. Initially, internees were kept at Sand Island and Honouliuli on Oahu, and the Kilauea Military Camp on the Island of Hawaii. Many were subsequently transferred to mainland camps."
http://www.hawaiischoolreports.com/h...internment.htm

"'Ironically, the territory with the largest Japanese population saw the least discrimination. More than one third of all residents of Hawaii had some Japanese ancestry. Japanese labor was considered vital to the civilian and military economics of the Hawaiian Islands. Besides, the views of Delos Emmons, military commander of Hawaii, were the opposite of those of General DeWitt.'

-from the book Japanese-American internment in American History, 1996.

As noted in some of the other reviews, there were a very small number of people arrested and detained in Hawaii and a small number that voluntarily went to the mainland camps, but primarily so they could find relatives. There was not a single act of sabotage in Hawaii by the Japanese Americans during the entire war.

In addition, since there were so many people of Japanese ancestry already living in Hawaii, about a third of the population, racism was not at all the kind of problem it was on the west coast."
http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/camp.html

[Kalalau]

Re: Obama and Race

I apologize that this varies some off topic, but it does fit in its own way. There was also a deportation of Mexican-American American citizens, during the 1930's. Whole families were packed onto trains and shipped into Mexico, even if they had been citizens for generations, even if their ancestors had lived in territories before they even became states. This happened in California and in Michigan, mainly. It was a panic reaction during the Depression. Property was confiscated; stolen. It might be difficult to accept, but the evil that lives in the human heart that made the Holocaust possible, or the rape of Nanking, was not unique to the German people or the Japanese, it lives in our human race and if it is encouraged to grow by demagogic politicians or incendiary talk radio it can produce horrible results again. Michael Reagan has advocated slaughtering Muslim babies, his show is carried on dozens of stations from coast to coast.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Obama and Race

that that only happened on the mainland, mainly in California.

All over the West Coast - there was a large Japanese-American population here in the Seattle/Puget Sound region, all shipped off to the camps. For background on some of the more detailed cases, look up:

> Gordon Hirabayashi, who openly defied internment orders, was convicted on a charge of violating curfew & relocation orders, lost his case all the way up to the Supreme Court (1943), and finally had the convictions overturned in 1986/1987.

> Bainbridge Island, just across the water from Seattle, where there was a large Japanese-American population, primarily berry farmers. When they were all interned, a handful of them were able to leave their farms in the hands of their Filipino workers, who kept the farms viable until the owners returned. In at least one case, upon their return, the Japanese-American family adopted the lead Filipino worker as a son, and gave him his own land. Today, both ethnic communities are strongly linked on the Island. David Guterson's "Snow Falling On Cedars" is set in a fictional world based on Bainbridge Island.

> The Japanese-American community of Seattle, an active community prior to WWII, most of whose property was seized by the government when the owners were shipped off to the camps.

I talked to my friends parents. They told me they were treated well, they had plenty of food, they had plenty of clothing, and they had heat during the winter. Maybe they lied to me, but I don't think so.

It would be very much in the nature of the Nikkei character of the time to not complain about what happened - or not to talk about it at all. Let's not say they "lied" to you ... it was just something "uncomfortable" for them to address.

As far as confiscation of property, I did not know of any Japanese family that lost their property as a result of internment, but I'm sure it did happen, I just don't know how often.

Often. The majority of families lost their property and belongings; only a handful had their property "watched over," as most white Americans believed the propaganda about "the Japs." It even happened in Western Canada.

The whole internment debacle was a travesty, but let's not overstate the case.

One of the most shameful chapters in American history. TuNnL doesn't overstate the case --- the history books that we learned from understated it for far too long.

[matapule]

Re: Obama and Race

TuNnL doesn't overstate the case

Nazi concentration camp? No way!

[timkona]

Re: Obama and Race

Since when was a white boy like yourself or anyone in your family (blood, not marriage) ever discriminated against because of your race?

Certainly happened a bit in Oakland, CA. And has certainly happened here in Hawaii. In fact, my views on race and racism have changed drastically since moving to Hawaii thanks to the incredibly racist environment that exists here.

They simply had rise above the ashes and start over.

Now TuNnL, are you trying to say they did it without some special school policy, and without some kind of gummint assisitance? Are you trying to say they did it on their own merit, with their own grit and determination? You are just inches away from contradicting yourself.

[Random]

Re: Obama and Race

Tunnl, go easy. I agree with much of what you say, but you are over reaching here. I grew up in the San Joaquin Valley with Japanese kids that were born in those Internment Camps with names like Okamura, Kawasaki, Matsumoto, Nakamura, etc. As I recall there were three different camps in Arizona where Japanese Americans from California were shipped after the outbreak of hostilities. Although they were internment camps, they didn't even come close to being Nazi concentration camps. I talked to my friends parents. They told me they were treated well, they had plenty of food, they had plenty of clothing, and they had heat during the winter. Maybe they lied to me, but I don't think so. Did it leave a bad taste in their mouths? Yes it did!, but it wasn't even close to a concentration camp.

You may note the distinction between concentration camp and internment camp, but had you been a Japanese living in the US, you certainly do not like being forcibly evicted from your home you or your family have worked so hard to build in a white-dominated country to live in such a spartan household with no freedom, all because you happen to look like the enemy. A prison with many comforts is still a prison anyway.

I'm just wondering how many Germans have been rounded up? Most certainly fewer than the Japanese if any have been interned.

[matapule]

Re: Obama and Race

You may note the distinction between concentration camp and internment camp, but had you been a Japanese living in the US, you certainly do not like being forcibly evicted from your home you or your family have worked so hard to build in a white-dominated country to live in such a spartan household with no freedom, all because you happen to look like the enemy. A prison with many comforts is still a prison anyway.

I don't disagree.

I'm just wondering how many Germans have been rounded up? Most certainly fewer than the Japanese if any have been interned.

My in-laws were part of a large group of Germans living in that same San Joaquin Valley during that same period of Japanese internment. They were members of the pacifist Mennonite sect and were consciencious objectors and refused induction into the services. Interestingly, they did not seem to suffer any discrimination as the Japanese did. Doesn't seem fair, does it? However, many of those same Germans were caretakers of Japanese farms during the internment and returned the land to their neighbors when they returned.

[Random]

Re: Obama and Race

However, many of those same Germans were caretakers of Japanese farms during the internment and returned the land to their neighbors when they returned.

Good for the Japanese farmers, but what about those who live in cities or have non-farming businesses?

[matapule]

Re: Obama and Race

Good for the Japanese farmers, but what about those who live in cities or have non-farming businesses?

I can't speak to that. I can only speak to what my experience is. Do you have some direct experience with those Japanese in California who lived in cities or had non-farming businesses?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Obama and Race

I've got direct experience with many Nikkei families from the Puget Sound region, who had everything taken from them when they were locked away. Many of the buildings in Seattle's International District used to house their shops and businesses, and much has been written about what they lost. The Wing Luke Museum here has many historical materials about these families, and the University of Washington recently assembled an exhibit on all the students who were sent off prior to graduation; they recently held a ceremony to honor them and grant them degrees.

[sinjin]

Re: Obama and Race

I can't speak to that. I can only speak to what my experience is. Do you have some direct experience with those Japanese in California who lived in cities or had non-farming businesses?

"Over 6,000 Little Tokyo residents were forced to leave their homes and businesses. When they left, African Americans, many of them wartime workers, moved into the vacated buildings and for a time, the neighborhood was known as 'Bronzeville'.
After the war, Japanese Americans gradually returned to Little Tokyo, but due to enormous property losses, it took years for the neighborhood to come back to life."
http://www.eyespyla.com/www/phlog.ns...f!OpenDocument

"July 2,1948 - Evacuation Claims Act passed, giving internees until January 3.1950 to file claims against the government for damages to or loss of real or personal property consequence of the evacuation. Total of $31 million paid by the government for property lost by internees-- equaling less than 10 cents per dollar lost."
http://www.momomedia.com/CLPEF/chrono.html

[timkona]

Re: Obama and Race

http://news.aol.com/article/whites-f...931x1200385672

Uh-oh. Bad news for bigots, racists, "preference" people, and other left leaning hypocrites.

But don't worry. I would never start a school, or a social program designed to help whites only.

[Random]

Re: Obama and Race

But don't worry. I would never start a school, or a social program designed to help whites only.

Hmm. I wonder if that's a jab at Kamehameha School.

Not a good place for such discussion.

But in response to your post and the article you linked, I call it karmic payback.

[timkona]

Re: Obama and Race

I doubt that KS is the only school in America selecting students with a preference for race. There are probably lots of schools like Kamehameha, where admissions policies openly state a preference, within the limits of the law.

I wonder how all the Japanese were able to recover from the WWII issues without some social program, or benefit? Do they benefit from Affirmative Action? After all, there are fewer of them than blacks.

Hey TuNnL, what say you? Do you think some groups can make it on their own merit? And what sets those groups apart from the one's who cannot make it without some preference policy?

You ever read "The Bell Curve" ?