Young adults: DRAFT!!!

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

Yeah, and the next Administration (whether it's Bush or Kerry) is still going to have to figure out how to ramp up with enough troops from a volunteer armed forces to go over to Iraq to train the locals to run their own country so we can bring all our troops home before the end of the next milennium. It ain't over until the fat lady croaks.

Miulang

[Konaguy]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

Hmm. 402-2? Who were the two?

Indeed it was strange I agree. The strangest part was
Abercrombie voting against the bill he co-sponsored.

[Konaguy]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

It ain't over until the fat lady croaks.

well it is over for this session of congress

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

well it is over for this session of congress

Based on what I heard Cheney (especially) and Edwards say tonight, the young adults of this country shouldn't go out dancing in the streets yet. They still need to mobilize and vote this November 2, so that when Congress starts up again in January, the politicians will realize that the kids are not just gonna roll over and get stepped on; they will be a political power to be reckoned with, just like their parents and grandparents.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

Here's a story in this morning's Star Bulletin about Abercrombie and his rationale for sponsoring and then voting against the draft bill. While at first blush it didn't appear to make sense, I think if you read this article, you'll also come to the conclusion that young people still have to worry about possibly being conscripted in the future, maybe not on a war front, but definitely into some kind of national service.

Miulang

More here: http://starbulletin.com/2004/10/06/news/index5.html

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

To all you young whippersnappers (men and women) between the ages of 18-28, please disavow yourself of both Dubya's and Kerry's "promise" that there will be no draft reinstated. There more than likely will have to be a draft of some kind in your near future. More and more stories are coming out now almost daily about how understaffed and underequipped our troops are in Iraq and Afghanistan. The question for you all, as you cast your votes on Nov. 2 is: which one of those men would you rather have as your Commander-in-Chief?

This story is from the NY Times, which as everyone knows endorsed Kerry for President this past week. The Bush Administration has been on the warpath and doing whatever it can to subvert and distort issues that the NYTimes has reported; in other words, where other Administrations have benignly allowed the press to publicly voice its opinions, over the last 3 years, every attempt has been made to stifle independent reporting. So caveat emptor as you read this article, but I think the Times states the facts clearly and irrefutably: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102004D.shtml

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

This is an important thing for young people to remember as they vote on Nov. 2: despite assurances from the candidates of both parties, do not believe that you are not in jeopardy of being drafted.

People in their 40s and 50s are now being reactivated and called up to serve in Iraq and Iran (in other words, some of your parents) because the numbers of younger volunteers in the regular Army are about 45% of where the Army needs it to be in order to maintain a strong volunteer Army. There is also a plan in place to conscript as many medical personnel (no age ceiling here) as required to support the increased numbers of troops.

So again, who would you rather have as Commander-in-Chief? Bush or Kerry?

More here: http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index....8906786681.xml

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

Here are a few more reasons why I think that the longer the war in Iraq and Afghanistan continue, the more likely a draft will have to be reinstated :

http://www.infobeat.com/index.cfm?ac...cle&id=1088458

Miulang

[adrian]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!



I guess the only thing saving me from the draft, is school or my obesity. Who'd want a 5'2" 200lbs male in your platoon? All I'm good for, is target practice for the enemy.

To make things worst, I forgot to register to vote. I guess I deserve to die in the war.

Its the idiot Bush's fault, because he underestimated the number of troops that were required for Iraq and Afganistan. We got Saddam, where's Bin Laden? We should concentrate on getting the leader of Al Quida out, instead of securing Iraq. Let them fend for themselves.

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

I guess the only thing saving me from the draft, is school or my obesity. Who'd want a 5'2" 200lbs male in your platoon? All I'm good for, is target practice for the enemy.

To make things worst, I forgot to register to vote. I guess I deserve to die in the war.

Its the idiot Bush's fault, because he underestimated the number of troops that were required for Iraq and Afganistan. We got Saddam, where's Bin Laden? We should concentrate on getting the leader of Al Quida out, instead of securing Iraq. Let them fend for themselves.

Eh Adrian:
School and your "roundness" may not keep you from getting called up. I think whoever wins the Presidential election will want all young Americans to go into public service for a year or two so everything is "fair". That may not necessarily be in a uniform of one of the armed forces, but it might mean teaching in an inner city school, working out in the forest, etc.

You would get paid, maybe learn a trade and use the time to figure out what you want to be when you grow up. If that had been an option for me (going into some kind of national service) when I was 18, I think I would have joined up. Maybe when I retire, I'll go join the Peace Corps. America has been good to me and I feel like I have to give something back to it. Another way I could give back is to become a teacher.

Miulang

BTW: I think Bush knows where bin Laden is (in China, where he's been getting medical care) and his administration is working on a deal to produce bin Laden right before the election. That's the most popular "October surprise" theory to bolster Bush's election that's floating around the internet right now.

[mcnabbmcnow]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

First, the talk of a draft is just foolish. Neither party would ever install a draft...it would be political suicide. If anything there might be more incentive to join the military, but not a draft. Bush never has said anything about a draft...his opponents are just using this as a scare tactic.

About underestimating troops...war is always a difficult thing. You never know exactly how the script is going to go. The military did a SUPERB job losing as few troops as they did in taking Badhdad. However, they didn't realize that many army members in Iraq had fled and some regrouped...to blame Bush for military strategy is wrong. The commanders on the ground tell him exactly how many troops they need...he doesn't make military decisions.

[pzarquon]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

First, the talk of a draft is just foolish. Neither party would ever install a draft...it would be political suicide.

It's not a matter of wanting to institute a draft. Campaign rhetoric or not, the flat reality of the numbers make it look like a draft has to remain one of the options in America's toolbelt if we continue down our current path. I mean, if we're already issuing "stop loss orders" and extending tours. We've got tens of thousands of National Guard and Reserve troops deployed... and while they're hardworking, patriotic Americans, the fact of the matter is the "part-time military" was not designed for active duty, or for duty overseas, for that matter.

If we're already stretched so thin, and yet we have to be prepared to put out other fires, to battle the gathering threat President Bush is so adamant still looms out there, where are we going to find the soldiers to do it all? While so many of our armed forces are bogged down in Iraq, what if all hell breaks loose in Korea, or Israel, or Taiwan, or South America (well, at least the oil-producing states)?

I don't think a draft is farfetched at all. The thing is, even a full "reverse course" (which Kerry's not even advocating) takes months to implement. Whoever is our president in 2005, they'll have to face the same questions. Frankly, I don't think either Bush or Kerry can rule it out.

[mcnabbmcnow]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

It's not a matter of wanting to institute a draft. Campaign rhetoric or not, the flat reality of the numbers make it look like a draft has to remain one of the options in America's toolbelt if we continue down our current path. I mean, if we're already issuing "stop loss orders" and extending tours. We've got tens of thousands of National Guard and Reserve troops deployed... and while they're hardworking, patriotic Americans, the fact of the matter is the "part-time military" was not designed for active duty, or for duty overseas, for that matter.

If we're already stretched so thin, and yet we have to be prepared to put out other fires, to battle the gathering threat President Bush is so adamant still looms out there, where are we going to find the soldiers to do it all? While so many of our armed forces are bogged down in Iraq, what if all hell breaks loose in Korea, or Israel, or Taiwan, or South America (well, at least the oil-producing states)?

I don't think a draft is farfetched at all. The thing is, even a full "reverse course" (which Kerry's not even advocating) takes months to implement. Whoever is our president in 2005, they'll have to face the same questions. Frankly, I don't think either Bush or Kerry can rule it out.

Doesn't a draft have to get voted on by Congress? It will never happen, and if it does, it will happen REGARDLESS of who is President. Bringing the troops home early without getting the job done will leave us worse off. Hopefully, Bush or Kerry can get some troops from other countries to help out...I did hear something about the British doing more. I wouldn't quote anything from the NY Times. That is perhaps the most liberal paper in the United States and actually had a writer making up completely false stories, and they got by the editor time after time, mostly about race issues.

[pzarquon]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

It will never happen, and if it does, it will happen REGARDLESS of who is President.

That's what I said. The "draft" question isn't good for either candidate. I suppose people think that Bush is more likely to institute it than Kerry, but then again, the majority of Americans think Saddam Hussein planned the 9/11 attacks.

I wouldn't quote anything from the NY Times. That is perhaps the most liberal paper in the United States...

I was just citing a story, any story, about the effect of the Iraq War on the National Guard and Army Reserves. I don't think anyone needs a newspaper - liberal or conservative - to know that that such heavy deployments of these "backup" forces into active war zones is problematic. It's like driving cross-country on the little spare from your trunk. You could do it, but it's not a good idea. That spare is there to cover you when you absolutely need it, not to serve as a regular tire. Sadly, the Iraq mess is several miles from the next gas station...

[Miulang]

Re: Young adults: DRAFT!!!

First, the talk of a draft is just foolish. Neither party would ever install a draft...it would be political suicide. If anything there might be more incentive to join the military, but not a draft. Bush never has said anything about a draft...his opponents are just using this as a scare tactic.

About underestimating troops...war is always a difficult thing. You never know exactly how the script is going to go. The military did a SUPERB job losing as few troops as they did in taking Badhdad. However, they didn't realize that many army members in Iraq had fled and some regrouped...to blame Bush for military strategy is wrong. The commanders on the ground tell him exactly how many troops they need...he doesn't make military decisions.

We did great in the initial battles but we greatly underestimated the numbers of troops we needed after "victory" was declared. Read any of the Congressional hearing documents: Gen. Shinseki and several other commanders in the field requested additional troops and their requests were denied.

We get tallies of the number of US soldiers killed in combat (what is it now, something like 1,100?), but we don't often hear about the "walking wounded". There are over 8,000 of these men and women, coming back to the US, who besides missing limbs, are also suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome. How are we going to take care of these men and women who volunteered to protect us from harm if our VA Hospital system is so antiquated? We haven't taken care of the "walking wounded" from Vietnam very well, so how can we help the ones coming home broken now? How many of those Iraqi and Afghani veterans will become alcoholics, homeless, substance abusers, or suicidal...are we willing to create another generation of people like this? I pray we are smarter than that.

I did hear something about the British doing more. I wouldn't quote anything from the NY Times. That is perhaps the most liberal paper in the United States and actually had a writer making up completely false stories, and they got by the editor time after time, mostly about race issues.

Prime Minister Blair coerced his Parliament into sending a few token Black Watch troops (as in something like maybe 800-1000) closer in to Baghdad from the south so our troops can go fight in Fallujah. That doesn't mean our troops are coming home any faster. It just means more of them will be put into harm's way trying to rout out al Zarqawi's men.

Blair is in so much hot water with his constituents and members of his own party right now over the Iraq conflict that he will have a tough time winning re-election early next year. He and the President are connected at the hip for some reason. I guess that's what happens when you realize every other country in the world thinks you made a strategic error. That also means that if Bush wins and Blair doesn't, more than likely the British troops will also leave Iraq which will really leave the US holding the bag.

Miulang