Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

[Miulang]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

What about the term "going native", then? That term drives me nuts. "Going native" to me means trying to become something you can never be unless you are native (as in kanaka maoli). What does "going native" in relation to Hawai'i mean? Shucking your suits and ties and business attire for Alohawear and trying to act like a local? Or reverting back to living in pili grass shacks and the way Hawai'i was pre-Statehood? Maybe that's what Sindahrella was trying to get at.

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

exactamundo, Miu. going native is kinda derrogatory.
This is why the completely innocuous term
native
innocently, while minding its own business, becomes, in some people's mind, oh so politically incorrect.
By its application as a snide label.
But intelligent people know the difference.
Je' like "haole"

"f#%!n haole" ain't too cool, but "haole" may be, depending on the context.
but then, of course, there's no pleasing some people. Maybe it was here, a long while ago, that someone posted:
"I resent being called "haole" at all. I am insulted..."


ok, fine. But IF... yer a haole, yer a haole.
If it is decscriptive and not derrogatory, why bitch about it?
Maybe it would help if we didn't see, so often scenarios like that yuppie man havin a hissyfit in Foodland:
"You ran outta quarts of milk!? Whattamy gonna do! My plane leaves tomorrow back to el lay and I haveta buy a whole half gallon! What kinda supermarket IS this!? I am SOOOO inconvenienced!"


Or that haole couple with a baby in line at safeway. Dude got a pony tail. Attractive wife. he is acting like the friggen center of the universe is his holy existence:
They are right in front of me. He is holding up the line, bitching to the checkout wahine "I want my discount on this can of salmon! The coupon sez I can have 25 cents off when i buy three!" and the manager is required to come over and explain the limitations of the format to this thick headed nimrod. All, the while we are standing waiting. He looks at me and sez ":Sorry about this But I gotta..." I interrupt: "No problem. I am entertained. "
wanted to say;
"YOU inflict this on yer family, ya schmuck!? get outta Dodge!"

But hey. I "live aloha".

[Miulang]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Or that haole couple with a baby in line at safeway. Dude got a pony tail. Attractive wife. he is acting like the friggen center of the universe is his holy existence:
They are right in front of me. He is holding up the line, bitching to the checkout wahine "I want my discount on this can of salmon! The coupon sez I can have 25 cents off when i buy three!" and the manager is required to come over and explain the limitations of the format to this thick headed nimrod. All, the while we are standing waiting. He looks at me and sez ":Sorry about this But I gotta..." I interrupt: "No problem. I am entertained. "
wanted to say;
"YOU inflict this on yer family, ya schmuck!? get outta Dodge!"
".

This is the kind of attitude that got the good people of Moloka'i so huhu about "outsiders" invading their island. And I bet the only reason he apologized to you was because you look haole, too (even though you also have a nice tan ). My guess is if you looked Asian and were standing behind da buggah, he wouldn't have taken the time to give you the time of day...

Miulang

[Sindahrella808]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

As far as the term "Native" , I personally find it offensive, especially when referring to Local's. I think it can easily cause offense and for a newcomer, it should be avoided altogether just to be sure no one misinterprets.

Somehow, using the term Native to refer to locals, is perceived by ME to mean something similar to "savages", or "lower class" (I hope I am explaining what I mean clearly). It's hard to put into words.

I do not like the term. I'm sure there are many who are OK with it.

[MadAzza]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

As a life-long resident here in Hawai'i I think the one thing many mainlanders do when moving or visiting here is try to hard to be "Local". The key is to be "low key". Don't try so hard to fit it, I mean if you didn't grow up speaking pidgen, it sounds really "dumb" to those of us who have, when you try.

Respect our customs, take your shoes off before you enter our homes, don't stare, mind your own business, give yourself a chance to fit in.

Be yourself. Give the local people you meet a chance to get to know you. Don't ever refer to "these Hawaiians" or "those local people", NEVER say "Natives".

FIRST thing you should do, go and buy the book "Hawaii's Story by Hawaii's Queen". Learn about Annexation and why there are bad feelings sometimes towards America and Non-Hawaiians. Learn about our history and culture and try to understand the unique challenges of our Islands. Everyone is welcome here but you have to understand the culture before you can assimilate.

Remember, Haole's are the minority here. That is never an easy feeling, but if you follow a few basic protocol's you will get along just fine.

Just my lua kala...

I love it. "Follow all these rules, read only such books that are approved by a certain group of people, say this, don't say that, don't try to fit in ... oh, and BE YOURSELF."

OK, got it.

<cracking up laughing>

[sinjin]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

exactamundo, Miu. going native is kinda derrogatory.
This is why the completely innocuous term
native
innocently, while minding its own business, becomes, in some people's mind, oh so politically incorrect.
By its application as a snide label.
But intelligent people know the difference.
Je' like "haole"

"f#%!n haole" ain't too cool, but "haole" may be, depending on the context.
but then, of course, there's no pleasing some people. Maybe it was here, a long while ago, that someone posted:
"I resent being called "haole" at all. I am insulted..."


ok, fine. But IF... yer a haole, yer a haole.
If it is decscriptive and not derrogatory, why bitch about it?
Maybe it would help if we didn't see, so often scenarios like that yuppie man havin a hissyfit in Foodland:
"You ran outta quarts of milk!? Whattamy gonna do! My plane leaves tomorrow back to el lay and I haveta buy a whole half gallon! What kinda supermarket IS this!? I am SOOOO inconvenienced!"


Or that haole couple with a baby in line at safeway. Dude got a pony tail. Attractive wife. he is acting like the friggen center of the universe is his holy existence:
They are right in front of me. He is holding up the line, bitching to the checkout wahine "I want my discount on this can of salmon! The coupon sez I can have 25 cents off when i buy three!" and the manager is required to come over and explain the limitations of the format to this thick headed nimrod. All, the while we are standing waiting. He looks at me and sez ":Sorry about this But I gotta..." I interrupt: "No problem. I am entertained. "
wanted to say;
"YOU inflict this on yer family, ya schmuck!? get outta Dodge!"

But hey. I "live aloha".

I've always wondered whether the hippies were better received in Hawaii than the yuppies? I must admit that I'm a bit prejudiced towards hippies for what I often perceive as their fuzzy thinking and blatant fascistic tendencies.

Damn, just when my rep was turning around I gotta pop off.

[Miulang]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

I've always wondered whether the hippies were better received in Hawaii than the yuppies? I must admit that I'm a bit prejudiced towards hippies for what I often perceive as their fuzzy thinking and blatant fascistic tendencies.

I remember when the "hippies" first invaded Maui in the mid1960s. The locals were upset because they would camp out at beaches and live off the land and dressed differently from them. Fuzzy thinking they may be, but I don't think they're fascist. The true hippies believe that everybody has a right to do their own thing, which is anathema to a fascist.

Yuppies are consumers (need more and more); hippies are conservers (i.e., don't need material things). Of course, the hippies of the 60's and the Age of Aquarius are not the hippies of 2005, either. Nowadays, I doubt there are any true hippies left. Many of the homeless and people living on the streets today have mental problems (thanks to our government not wanting to institutionalize them), while back in the 60s, the dropouts tended to be fairly well educated and at least middle class and made the choice to live in communes.

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

I remember when the "hippies" first invaded Maui in the mid1960s. The locals were upset because they would camp out at beaches and live off the land and dressed differently from them. Fuzzy thinking they may be, but I don't think they're fascist. The true hippies believe that everybody has a right to do their own thing, which is anathema to a fascist.

Miulang

Do your own thing as long as they approve of your values. Not if you like to eat meat, smoke tobacco, enjoy boxing, spank your kids, drive a SUV, support the military, live in a big house, wear deoderant, vote republican, etc., etc.

Maybe that's just the ones I've encountered. IMO many should emigrate to Egypt since they already live in denial.

[Sindahrella808]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Ihippies are conservers (i.e., don't need material things). Of course, the hippies of the 60's and the Age of Aquarius are not the hippies of 2005, either. Nowadays, I doubt there are any true hippies left.
Miulang

Today's hippies are called Bohemians on Kauai and they do everything but "conserve" Take a drive through Hanalei and look at every beach park where they have set up camp, or should I say Broken down vans and cars. If you sit in the Lihue Welfare office for one day, 80% of the people coming in for free benefits are the "bohemians". They are not conserving anything, they are dirtying the parks, living in the mountains and collecting welfare...

My Uncle works at Medquest on Kauai and he said they come to Hawaii ,thinking they can live off the land and live free, but soon there they are, in the welfare office looking for free handouts. They conserve nothing.
They steal Taro from the Taro Patches, Litter, the list goes on....

[ojosverdesdegato]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

A lot of the concerns I read on this thread, are concerns experienced the world over. I find it funny that when I travel, that people ask me if we have the Internet in Canada...or does it snow all year in all parts of the country. Sometimes people will ask me if I know their friend who lives in Toronto..(I live in Victoria), which is as far away from Toronto, and Hawai'i is from Victoria.
I also noticed many of the same concerns about "fittingin" when I spent 7 years in the Canadian Arctic. The far north is as different from the rest of Canada as Hawai'i is from most of the US mainland. Sometimes people would try too hard to fit in too fast.
I have family in Mexico and Ireland. I find that I am at home in either country, because I treat the people and their customs with respect. I try to ask questions, rather than blab away about how great it is in MY country. I try to be patient with Mexicans and the irish that ask me if we still live in Igloos!
When I am in Hawai'i, I find the "locals" ALWAYS treat me with respect. I don't pretend to know more than I do know, but when I make an attempt to speak the language, I find the sales people more than happy to help me, and they are so pleased that this Canadian Haole is willing to TRY, and not afraid to laugh at herself.
As for the word "native"...Only on this thread have I heard that it is a negative word. We use the word all the time here in Canada. I am a Native British Columbian, which means I am born here. The "native" Indians refer to themselves as "just that" "Native Indian peoples". The world of PC has tried to put a negative spin on many words, but because I have grown up with Native Indian Peoples, I know that they even refer to themselves as Native Indian Peoples.
....Take the word "cop"...So many times I have had some self righteous PC person correct me for referring to my husband as a "cop". Finally I wrote a letter to the editor of our local newspaper, and explained that "COP" is not a derogatory word...It is an old British acronym for "Constaple on Patrol" ....nothing more, nothing less.
People are the same the world over...they just want respect, and from what I see from time to time, they need to "lighten up"....Not be afraid to laugh at oneself!
That's my 2 cents worth.

Mahalo,

Claudia (Ka'o'opalani)

[Miulang]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Today's hippies are called Bohemians on Kauai and they do everything but "conserve" Take a drive through Hanalei and look at every beach park where they have set up camp, or should I say Broken down vans and cars. If you sit in the Lihue Welfare office for one day, 80% of the people coming in for free benefits are the "bohemians". They are not conserving anything, they are dirtying the parks, living in the mountains and collecting welfare...

I guess when I lived in Boston in the late 70s, I must have been a "yuppie hippie" then, ! I lived in a biiiiiig house with 8 other unrelated human beings in a commune. We all paid taxes, were well educated, lived with a roof over our heads and all had jobs. Some of us were vegetarian and some of us were carnivores. We did stuff together all the time. It was a great way to live.

I wouldn't consider those vagrants today who try to scam people and the system "bohemians" OR "hippies". They are just society's castoffs, many of whom have mental problems and have issues with society. Period.

BTW: Here's Wikipedia's definition of "bohemian". It has nothing to do with being scum..., unless they are artistic scum who emigrated from Bohemia
"Bo·he·mi·an (b-hm-n)
n.
1. A native or inhabitant of Bohemia.
2. The Czech dialects of Bohemia.
3.
a. A Gypsy.
b. An itinerant person; a vagabond.
bo·he·mi·an (b-hm-n)
n.
A person with artistic or literary interests who disregards conventional standards of behavior.


Miulang

[Sindahrella808]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

I think we are all saying basically the same thing, just different symantics and perspectives.

I am willing to re-think my position on the word "Native". Presentation is everything after all.....I did not mean to start a controversy on the word. It is just a word when I think about it.

In the end we are all the Human Race...maybe we should just start referring to each other as "hey human!" ..talk about an equal playing field

[kimo55]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

I am willing to re-think my position on the word "Native". Presentation is everything after all.....I did not mean to start a controversy on the word. It is just a word when I think about it.

words have no physical power intrinsically. It is your personal perspective that gives it any worth or value, negatively or positively. although innocent as it is originally, it is your view that the word is politically incorrect, and you want others to redefine it as such. Why?

[Sindahrella808]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

it is your view that the word is politically incorrect, and you want others to redefine it as such. Why?

I just said that I am willing to rethink my position. I posted ysterday why it has negative meaning to me. It's just a word, im not going to keep beating a dead horse on it. Unitl I have given it some thought, I prefer not to hear it used, but if others don't mind, I am perfectly fine with thier opinions and perspectives. To each his own. I know many people who do not "appreciate" the term. It's not a major deal...lets move on...

[1stwahine]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Peeps in door. Hmmmmm. "bohemian," "native,"... Nah. Fighting words. Feel hostility in room. Bad karma. Runs out of the door. Going to calmer thread.

Auntie Lynn