Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

[Sindahrella808]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

I am! I belong to the Church Choir! Bro Kimo is not a jerk. He is a very good man. You're new here don't be calling people names. Not nice.

Auntie Lynn

I'm sure he is a very nice man in general but right now he is being a jerk.

[1stwahine]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

goodnight everybody.

aunty lynn

[MadAzza]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

BREED???? .OK I won't even touch that one it is so ignorant..who's fault? Lets see...Westerners arrive....Pure Hawaiians begin dying by the HUNDREDS of thousands...from 1778 to 1878 number of Pure Hawaiians falls from about 400,000 to about 40,000 due to disease introduced by foreigners...there is your fault sweetheart....

OK ... "sweetheart" ... my point is, if Hawaiians feeling like breeding (yes, that is a perfectly legitimate term ... sweetheart ... precious darling ... light of my life) with non-Hawaiians, that is their CHOICE. Hawaiians aren't helpless children. They are fully aware, sentient beings capable of making their own decisions about whom to marry and have children with.

Got it?

No?

Didn't think so. But just because we have a disagreement, that doesn't mean you have to call people "jerk" and "ignorant" and other blather typical of ... well, I'm guessing you're about 25 years old and fresh out of college, am I right? Perhaps not. Which, of course, would be even more embarrassing for you. Darling.

[MadAzza]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Oh, and nice try on the red mark, Sindy. Didn't take. So when you find yourself at the short end of a discussion, you sneak around behind and try to leave a bad rep? How absolutely predictable! Do try again, love. After all, it is so much easier than trying to pry open your mind to consider other viewpoints.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

so I am still learning this chicklet thang and I have just discovered that I have a blue square as a result of this thread. What does THAT mean?

I feel like I was when I used to own a scale and would check that sucker every time I ate a big mac....I gotta stop that!

Anyhow, I want to make a final point on this subject (before it heads to Hanalei in a handbasket):

I spoke of the peculiar baggage that micro-peoples carry. It is a sobering thought that there are suburbs larger than the whole population of Hawaiians or Ojibwes or Yiupiks or Saami, etc. I am not perscribing any method on how to let this baggage go, or suggesting that it must be held forever. I'm merely recognizing that there are people and peoples who spend lifetimes struggling with these issues and I am neither going to suggest they get a grip nor assign blame.

And tangentially: about that quantum issue. When I read that report, (and this was prior to logging onto the net this morning) my first reaction was skepticism at their data. PASE (of KS) has a very real agenda to design data because their legal defense of their decisions are soley rooted in social service apologia. Plus, they just had their head of this dept write a confusing letter to the HNL-Ad, which makes the reasons for scrutiny obvious. Notice I said "obvious" and not "personal". Background for said scrutiny aside, my point is (if you have hung around this long) that we could plug in another micro-peoples and the humor/irony might be more obvious.

Do we jump up and down for the progress of the American Indian culture because we got Val Kilmer, Lou Diamond Philips and that Tommy Lee around? I mean, they each descend from the aboriginal peoples of that continent. I just snorted at that same stretch that the PASE report made, 'sall.

aloha, Pua'i

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

so I am still learning this chicklet thang and I have just discovered that I have a blue square as a result of this thread. What does THAT mean?

Blue? I'm guessing that you meant gray. You can get green squares from people who liked your post and want to add to your Reputation, red squares from people who didn't like your post and want to subtract from your Reputation, and gray squares from people who wanted to give you Reputation points (positive or negative) but whose own Reputation is too low (or is negative) and therefore can't give Reputation points to others.

Anyhow, I want to make a final point on this subject (before it heads to Hanalei in a handbasket):

I spoke of the peculiar baggage that micro-peoples carry. It is a sobering thought that there are suburbs larger than the whole population of Hawaiians or Ojibwes or Yiupiks or Saami, etc. I am not perscribing any method on how to let this baggage go, or suggesting that it must be held forever. I'm merely recognizing that there are people and peoples who spend lifetimes struggling with these issues and I am neither going to suggest they get a grip nor assign blame.

True.

To draw an imperfect analogy to biology, micro-peoples (to use your phrase) are like endangered species of animals or plants. In many many cases, it's hard to see how a tiny population of individuals can hope to hold out against the waves of strangers who are inundating their lands. And if you look into the past, you see countless examples of species -- worthy as they may have been -- who have gone extinct.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

And if you look into the past, you see countless examples of species -- worthy as they may have been -- who have gone extinct.

Hence da baggage. What makes it harder is the image staring back in the mirror. So while I know that my image is a woman who is 1/16 Chinese, it doesn't hold the same visceral sway considering that my features are those of an, uh, "increasing" race.

[Miulang]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

The reason I find the study results so fascinating is because if the kanaka maoli presence (however dilute) continues to thrive, there is no reason why all the cultural aspects have to become extinct. I am extremely interested in preserving the culture, as I am in preserving any indigenous culture.

As others have stated, kanaka maoli have the free will (as does everyone else in this country) to marry and mingle with whomever they choose. To be told otherwise would be harkening back to a dark time in America when African Americans were not allowed to marry Caucasians. I really don't want to relive that part of our history. What I do see is a continuation of the Renaissance of Hawaiian culture which is becoming more widely known outside of the kanaka maoli. If non -kanaka maoli can appreciate and respect the language, hula, artifacts and way of life of the kanaka maoli, is that enough? We can't turn back the clock, but we can move forward and hope that even though the numbers of full blooded kanaka maoli is dwindling, at least the spirit of the people can be perpetuated. Indigenous people have much to teach those who came to inhabit their land after them.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Are you a natural jerk, or do you work at it really hard??????

Ouch! Hey, I've had my disagreements with Kimo in the past, too, but personal attacks like this are not wlecome - and they certainly derail any sensible discussion of the topic (as well as weakening your own credibility.)

[sinjin]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

...CAPTAIN COOK DID NOT DISCOVER HAWAII.... HAWAIIANS DID.

...and I always thought that Tahitians/Marquesans discovered Hawaii.

[sinjin]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Lets see...Westerners arrive....Pure Hawaiians begin dying by the HUNDREDS of thousands...from 1778 to 1878 number of Pure Hawaiians falls from about 400,000 to about 40,000 due to disease introduced by foreigners...there is your fault sweetheart....

Do you believe those diseases were introduced intentionally as they sometimes were to Native American tribes?

[kimo55]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

...and I always thought that Tahitians/Marquesans discovered Hawaii.

yes, that is true, but those are not approved words.

[Sindahrella808]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Do you believe those diseases were introduced intentionally as they sometimes were to Native American tribes?

NO, I have never thought is was a form of Genocide..I just think it was bad luck...

[GypsyLika]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

Do you believe those diseases were introduced intentionally as they sometimes were to Native American tribes?

YES

~Lika

[GypsyLika]

Re: Those Hawaiians, Those Mainlanders!

NO, I have never thought is was a form of Genocide..I just think it was bad luck...

So it was bad luck that Indigenous peoples did not have immunity to diseases that were exposed to them by the 'discovers'. Lke 100's of Native American tribes have perished was bad luck

~Lika:bear: