Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

[pzarquon]

Re: Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

A person whose positions have changed since 1970? The horror. This refers to a statement made nearly 35 years ago, when Kerry gave an interview to the Harvard Crimson, 10 months after he had returned from the Vietnam War angry and disillusioned by his experiences there. No doubt you'll be able to find someone coming back from Iraq sans a few limbs who might echo the sentiment.

He went to Vietnam. He was obviously sore about it, but at least he did it. What exactly did Bush and Cheney do when faced with the possibility of active duty? Oh, yeah, right...

Bush has a pretty good collection of contradictory statements himself -- from "I don't think you give timelines to dictators" to "I don't think you can win" to his position on the 9/11 commission to the environment to the No Child Left Behind Act -- and they were all collected in one dizzying term.

As for the whole "voting against defense systems" everyone's harping on, funny how they're leaving out how both Cheney and Bush himself spoke out against those very same systems.

I have a lot of friends who supported the invasion of Iraq who don't now. It ain't flip flopping. It's a thoughtful and careful reevaluation of the facts then and new facts since. Kerry's changing his mind might be a liability, but he's not alone in that, and I'd say someone who blindly wants to believe something so bad that they'll dismiss all evidence to the contrary as being equally dangerous.

Fun as I know it is to pick on Kerry, Karen, you're not neccessarly zinging a bunch of true believers here. Trust me, I'm no big fan of Kerry myself. I'd have preferred another Democratic candidate, and as I mentioned, I still would've taken McCain over any of the jokers we've seen in play this go 'round. Voting for the person who annoys or scares you the least is sad, but it's not exactly unique. I imagine a good chunk of the votes cast in this country are "least of all evils" defaults.

How on earth can you still vote for this man? Just out of your hate for the other party?! Wow, what a motivating factor.

Were it only so simple and black and white, it would definitely be funny. But it helps to look deeper.

I don't hate Republicans as a rule. I've got conservative leanings myself, at least on the fiscal policy side (social policy is another matter). I helped run a Republican campaign for state senator here in Hawaii just four years ago. I support people who I think will advance the issues I value and best represent my views, and if that happens to be a Democrat, Republican, or Free Energy party member, so be it. (Hell, I voted for Perot... albeit for no particularly good reason, it being my first presidential vote.)

You are right that I am voting against Bush more than I am voting for Kerry. But it's not because of some shallow dislike of the guy (though I do dislike the guy). I really wish you'd give me more credit than that. I'm looking at the record, what's said versus what's done, and where things are today compared to 2000, and deciding I don't like how things have gone.

I'm fully aware that someone can look at the same things and decide they approve. So I don't neccessarily ascribe their support to blind adoration, either. But Bush II gets an "F" in my gradebook, and that's what I'm taking to the polls.

[Karen]

Re: Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

"A person whose positions have changed since 1970? The horror."

LOL no ya don't! That isn't the point! (how do you know his positions have changed since the seventies, since they've changed on everything current, and past a hundred times in the past six months?!)

Kerry says NOW that he did such and such, back then, and he says he did them for such and such REASONS, back then, but problem is, this large number of swifties KNEW him then, and know he is lieing NOW about then, get it?! He is lieing about what he did back then, in some instances, and lieing about why he did whatever he honestly did do, NOW.

Something about most of us wants an HONORABLE president, one we feel is honest, and many more good things. Kerry doesn't pass muster.

"He went to Vietnam. He was obviously sore about it, but at least he did it. What exactly did Bush and Cheney do when faced with the possibility of active duty? Oh, yeah, right..."

He went, and he didn't do it honorably, NOR for honorable reasons. he went with a personal agenda of making films so he could use them later, while shooting himself in the foot, maybe literally from what he is admitting to, ya know, the bandaid injury, by shooting off his mouth in front of congress about his PEERS of war.

These peers are the ones that have united against him. Let the profundity of this sink in.

"As for the whole "voting against defense systems" everyone's harping on, funny how they're leaving out how both Cheney and Bush himself spoke out against those very same systems."

Uh, you best rethink this one. Kerry said he was for giving the president authority to get saddam, he then voted AGAINST the was it 87 billion? oh I forget but he voted AGAINST this funding. Bush and cheney didnt' speak against it, they asked for it and got it. THIS is the vote, "the" funding vote everyone is exposing Kerry for, oh yeah, his own hilarious quote, a very recent one, that he, Kerry voted "for it before he voted against it"

LOL the waffle king of all.

"You are right that I am voting against Bush more than I am voting for Kerry. But it's not because of some shallow dislike of the guy (though I do dislike the guy). I really wish you'd give me more credit than that. I'm looking at the record, what's said versus what's done, and where things are today compared to 2000, and deciding I don't like how things have gone."

Sad how Bush's record of the past four years somehow...overshadows Kerry's record. Hell, he has a pitiful, waffling, from one extreme to the other, back again in some cases....RECORD of just this year!!!

Yes, you are voting "against Bush, not FOR Kerry" while your dislike for Bush is blinding you to the HARM and disrespect, dishonor and MISTRUST Kerry brings to the table. Kerry is defeating himself in this election. How can one think of him as bringing HONOR to this country, when he stands on the Democratic platform of DISHONOR?! Then, as one looks deeper as Kerry, it only gets worse.

God bless the swift Vets that are, in their current actions, still serving this country, in fact VERY well.

As Z. Miller put it, we would NOT be safe with Kerry as president. Kerry did not serve his country in Nam, but he served himself to what he could, got his bandaid hearts, etc. and ran home FAST with them, as the policy was after you got so many, you could go home, but keep in mind that

Kerry's own superiors TOLD him to go home. They said he was a loose cannon, they didn't respect or feel comfortable with him, and this was BEFORE he had testified before congress, saying horrible things about all of our vets, but then now he says he was speaking of all but....the swifties, as if THAT makes him honorable. YECH....

[Linkmeister]

Re: Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

Bush II gets an "F" in my gradebook, and that's what I'm taking to the polls

Can you give both an "F" and an incomplete? Remember Osama? Bush didn't even mention the guy who committed the murders in NY in his speech. In fact, none of the Republican speakers did. They happily mentioned Saddam, who has been conclusively proven to have nothing to do with 9/11, and they lit out after Kerry like he'd personally financed al-Qaeda, but that "Wanted - Dead or Alive" guy? Nada, zip, zero.

Oh, then there's the nearly-1,000 dead Americans in Iraq, the 6,000+ wounded, that whole surplus-to-deficit thing, the handover of drilling rights to wilderness areas, the payoffs to drug companies in the Medicare bill (you remember, the one which cost so much more than proposed that they had to lie about it?), the Kyoto treaty, the ABM treaty, the International Criminal Court, the tax cuts (three times!) for the wealthiest 1% of the population at the expense of the middle class...

Gephardt had it right. Miserable failure.

[Karen]

Re: Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

"Oh, then there's the nearly-1,000 dead Americans in Iraq, the 6,000+ wounded"

You blame Bush for the dead?! why don't the troops? Just in today's paper online, Honolulu Advertiser, is a quote of the latest local boy that's dead from the war, and his family said that he recently re-enlisted, and said he LOVED HIS JOB. Uh, he said this while IN Iraq!!! why?? Why is the army, during this war, meeting its retention goals?!

Unlike YOU, most of our troops agree that they are doing a right and good thing, in Iraq. Of course they do, as they are not only given flowers, but jewelry, and taken into homes of native Iraqis, fed pita bread meals, etc....yes, to this day, as I personally know two people there, right now.

Saddam's two maniacal sons are dead, and he is in prison where he can no longer send thousands to mass graves, rape brides on their wedding days....his sons did that, or send a man home to his wife, cut up and in a body bag. MOST....Iraqis are glad we did what we did, and they have sovereignty now, so they could send us packing right now, if they didn't want us there.

Most americans still support the war. Michael Moore, bless his money making heart, didn't sway most people, he only earned a living, and a lot of that was out of peoples' curiosity.

GOOD things have been done by our invasion in Iraq.

"the tax cuts (three times!) for the wealthiest 1% of the population at the expense of the middle class..."

LOL oh don't even GO there! we are not in the top even ten percent of wealthy, and for the first time last tax season, we GOT MONEY BACK!! The tax cuts did NOT bless just the wealthy, but...

this is typical liberal, idiotic rhetoric. Not only did the increased child tax CREDIT bless EVERYONE with children that pay any level of taxes, (ahem, Kerry voted AGAINST it, as did Edwards!) but the Dems. have, for many years, incited jealousy of the rich, by the working man, but it only works on people that can't think for themselves. WHO pays the working man's paycheck?!!! well uh....the "rich" man does! so the jealous working man shoots himself in the foot when and if he votes for those that want to penalize the rich man for BEING rich.

Cap gains tax, for example...it was lowered. Now sure there's good and bad in everything, but most rich people REINVEST in their business and employees when they get to simply KEEP more of their OWN money, per lower cap gains tax!!! imagine that, they reinvest in new equipment, offices, hire MORE workers, and even give employees bonuses.

Most rich people worked their butts off to get their money, or their parents did, as they inherited it. This ole jealousy of the rich man is a way the Dems. have worked to get votes, for years, while being the party that gives welfare much more loosely than the GOP.

Thankfully, many see through this rhetoric. TAX CUTS bless all tax payers, in more ways than one.

Can you say "President Bush" for four more years?

[Linkmeister]

Re: Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

I blame Bush for sending troops to a war which didn't need to be fought. He deliberately pushed the UN and Hans Blix out because he was sure WMD were there. Had he waited until they'd discovered what we now know, that there were none and probably hadn't been any since 1991, 10,000+ Iraqis and all those Americans wouldn't have died.

I'm not going to persuade Karen, that's obvious. If anyone wants to know how honorable the Bushes are, I suggest reading Kevin Phillips' book, reviewed here by me.

[Karen]

Re: Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

You, Linkmeister, blame Bush for some dieing in Iraq, when THEY that are there....agree with Bush, as do many of us at home. Yes, this war DID need to be fought, for reasons I just stated in this thread, and much GOOD has been done.

WMDs? The rumor is that they were moved, was it into syria, in-between the UN inspections. You forget, or don't wish to admit that Saddam had USED WMDs before. You haven't convinced me, no, because you have faulty argument. not finding WMDs proves NOTHING, not that he never had them, we know he had used them before, nor does it prove he wasn't busy manufacturing more, and then simply moved them into Syria, or wherever, but most of all.....

MUCH GOOD has been accomplished in Iraq, and they still welcome us in their country, while our people that are THERE, interacting with their people, praise us for what we have done.

Afraid this vast amount of our troops, and the actions of the Iraqis praising us sorta....

OUTWEIGH your arguments.

[Linkmeister]

Re: Kerry picks Edwards for Veep

Now this is interesting. Andrew Sullivan has concluded that he can't support Bush. (Start there and scroll up). Considering that he's been one of Dubya's biggest fans, despite the gay-bashing that Bush has helped to promote by advocating the Marriage Amendment, that's almost astonishing.