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Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

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  • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

    Funny, how when Bill Clinton was in the middle of impeachment hearings, many military people (officers) signed petitions and made public statements about how the then-Commander-in-Chief was a liar and worse. Did any of them get prosecuted? No. Nada. So what's the difference? Did Bill Clinton's presumably "Illegal" affair with one Congressional intern cause anyone else to be killed? No. And Lt. Watada, and all the other active duty military people now speaking out against the war have not mentioned the President as the culprit. Does it just depend on who that Commander-in-Chief happens to be at the time? Sarah Olson thinks so.

    "... The most well-known cases of officers expressing contemptuous views of the presidency in recent years occurred when Bill Clinton was president. During his impeachment hearings, US military officers wrote a number of articles and letters to the editor calling President Clinton an "adulterous liar," a "hypocrite in chief" and a criminal, not to mention "pot-smoking," "gay-loving," "womanizing," and "draft-dodging." Many called for his resignation and impeachment. None of these officers were ever disciplined. In part, one must infer that speech rights depend on the political climate in the country at the time of the statement, and the public support for the sentiments expressed.

    Marti Hiken is the co-chair of National Lawyers Guild Military Law Task Force. She says that besides outright court-martial or other legal proceedings, the military has many forms of extra-judicial retaliation. "The government is well known for carrying out illegal wars, and when enlisted soldiers challenge these wars, they are retaliated against." Hiken says that during this Iraq war, the military has begun to read emails and blogs. GIs cannot freely express their opinions on the Iraq war, and in some cases are given scripts to read when speaking to the press.

    Iraq War resisters prior to Lieutenant Watada experienced similar intimidation tactics. Camilo Mejia is a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, and was the first combat veteran to refuse to return to Iraq. He spent nearly one year in prison for his refusal. "Everything is so backwards," Mejia says. "If you begin from the premise that this is an illegal war, then everything stems from that. Within this context, Lieutenant Watada's decision not to obey formal orders fulfills his obligation to domestic, international, and military law." Mejia says the anti-war movement is prepared to defend Lieutenant Watada's rights to resist the Iraq war.

    Aidan Delgado is an Army combat veteran and conscientious objector. He's been speaking the Iraq war since 2004, but during his time in the Army he said he was harassed relentlessly about his decision to be a conscientious objector. "There's a whole spectrum of extra-legal things they can do. They blatantly told me this would ruin my life. And of course that was not true." For people stationed in Iraq, this harassment is extraordinarily effective. "What proves it's so effective is how few objections there have been. There's enormous peer pressure, and no one wants to come forward." Delgado thinks Lieutenant Watada's position will inspire others in the military to resist the Iraq war, despite military retaliation. ..."

    Miulang
    Last edited by Miulang; June 14, 2006, 03:22 PM.
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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    • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

      Muilang,
      I am thankful that you are supporting me in wanting to be heard and I am also sorry that I wasn't able to answer questions sooner. But I will try my best to answer them now.

      When did you decide that could not take part in the occupation?

      It was around December of last year. After hearing what my sergeant wanted me to do if we killed innocent civilians. He said that we were to drop an assault rifle next to his body and say he was an insurgent. In turn he said my fireteam would back the story. After that looked into what exact rules of conduct that order was breaking so that I could bring it up the chain of command. I also came across the Nuremberg Tribunal which said basically refuse all illegal orders and to not participate in war of agression. I didn't know what a war of agression was at the point I understood the basics but not the legalities. So I researched the Resolution for Use of Armed Services in Iraq. After reading that and knowing the 9/11 commissions decisions on al Qeada and Saddam. Also understanding the fact that the United States entered the United Nations through a treaty making it a supreme law of the land as stated in the constitution; and through the United States failing to adhere to the fact the security council did not approve of the War in itself makes it a breach of international law. While doing so I came across Jeremy Hinzman's website and found out about going to Canada and speaking my mind freely. So after my Corporal told me to shut my mouth. I decided well I am going to Canada.


      Could you have continued to be with your unit even after you decided that it was an illegal war? No I simply could not. I cannot be apart of the commission of a crime against humanity. By participating in military operations and know that it is illegal puts me at fault for the thousands of innocent civilians killed in Iraq, because I decided I was above the law.

      Could you have held your tongue until after you were out of the Marines and then spoken out, as the 6 retired generals did? No, I couldn't and I wouldn't have I don't mind being at risk of being jailed and even executed for desertion because I am letting the public know the truth NOW not after the fact. Can imagine what would happen if those generals came out publicly before they retired that would have made a major difference in the publics mind about the war. Rather than when they are retired although they did have a big impact.

      Would you have left if you were deployed to Afghanistan instead of Iraq? No, like I said before I could not be apart of not only wars of agression but crime against humanity.

      You say you love your country. If you could now return to America to perform some kind of alternative service (as a CO would be able to do), would you consider that? No, I will not return untill the United States has reclaimed its independence not from an empire but from coprorations and oil crazd politicians. Our Constitution is being pushed aside like a scrap piece of paper and I will not idly stand there watching it tear away bit by bit. At least here in Canada the government for the most part is for the people and tends to be less controled by corporations as compared to the US. Not saying that it isn't but it is better.

      I'm sure you have heard about the DoD's plans to remove mention of the Geneva Convention articles about the humane treatment of prisoners from the new, revised rules of conduct? This is an outrage it is almost as bad as the patriot act. They are pushing away the Constitution again. By not creating a regulation that contradicts International law. It is also another step by the current administration in saying we are bigger and better than the rest and we don't abide by your rules.

      What does that say about the line of command? Read Above Statement

      That they think it's right to snub our noses at international law? The United States is not the world. The United States needs to recognize that although we are superpower by defying the United Nations we are no better than the war lords of third world countries.

      Is it OK to send able bodied men and women into a conflict ill prepared and unequipped for urban warfare, which is so different from conventional warfare?
      NO, IT IS NOT. Although the Marines have come a long way in MOUT. Every MOUT Instructor will tell you the fastest way to lose a war is to engage in Urban Warfare. About the Equipment. Sergeant Patrick Hart another war resister here in Canada told me that on his first tour in the middle east he wasn't even issued SAPI Plates (bullet proff inserts) for his Flak jacket and that he was doing guard duty with only 5 rounds in his rifle. This is the sad state of the US Military today. It is not a well oiled machine it is rusty, but well funded, with many ethnic minorities and persons of lower middle class, and propaganda feed teens to fill the ranks.
      "Canada shall be a refuge from militarism"
      Prime Minister Piere Trudeau

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      • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

        Nacho Daddy,
        You should know, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN EX MARINE. I will return should the US allow me to take my rank and return to my station after the leave Iraq and admit to its wrong doing but untill then. I will stand by as a Marine fighting for what I believe in.

        Semper Gumby,
        Chris
        "Canada shall be a refuge from militarism"
        Prime Minister Piere Trudeau

        Comment


        • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

          NachoDaddy, I am very impressed with your communication skills and the arc your posts are taking. Nicely done.

          Chris, I am also very impressed with your articulate manner on this subject. Your participation here at HT gives us a glimpse that we otherwise would not have; a first-hand account of a conflicted soldier trying to do right by his conscience and his country.

          Thank you, gentlemen. It is a treat to witness this exchange.

          aloha, P

          pax

          Comment


          • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

            Originally posted by War_Resisters_Canada
            Nacho Daddy,
            You should know, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN EX MARINE. I will return should the US allow me to take my rank and return to my station after the leave Iraq and admit to its wrong doing but untill then. I will stand by as a Marine fighting for what I believe in.

            Semper Gumby,
            Chris
            Hi Chris;

            It is Mike, BTW. Let's meet halfway and be PC....how about "marine on extended leave of absence" or MOELOA. Almost sounds Hawaiian.

            I am curious about one thing though. What happened when you took this up the COC? Let's say that your sergeant/corporal was smoking crack that day or just trying to mind **** you. Did it ever cross your mind that maybe, just maybe, the entire armed forces did not operate this way?

            Now, I understand that this "event" led you to the path of enlightenment, googling this and googling that. And I understand that for you, mentally, there was a point of no return. Along the way, did you not have someone you could talk to? No one?

            It just blows me away when I hear about your story. What you did, why you did it, all the collateral damage. All the pain.

            I was not kidding about my drunk uncle. He said once, in one of those rare moments of lucidity, that the hardest part was the first five years. Getting accepted, getting citizenship, beginning life again anew. Wipe the slate clean kinda stuff. He left my aunt and cousin behind also.

            I look forward to your response. Good Luck with whatever/wherever this path takes you.
            You Look Like I Need A Drink

            Comment


            • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

              Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o
              NachoDaddy, I am very impressed with your communication skills and the arc your posts are taking. Nicely done.

              Chris, I am also very impressed with your articulate manner on this subject. Your participation here at HT gives us a glimpse that we otherwise would not have; a first-hand account of a conflicted soldier trying to do right by his conscience and his country.

              Thank you, gentlemen. It is a treat to witness this exchange.

              aloha, P

              I am not showering with him though, I also have lines that I do not cross.
              You Look Like I Need A Drink

              Comment


              • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                I agree with Pua'i. Mahalo, guys, for keeping this discussion civilized. It allows others to be able to calmly assess both sides of the equation. Usually in discussions about the occupation of Iraq, you only hear the noise and not the substance of the arguments.

                Miulang
                Last edited by Miulang; June 14, 2006, 05:24 PM.
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                  Yep! I agree with Tita Miulang and Tita Pua'i Mana'o
                  too! The way things are going ~ HT will be on CNN soon!

                  Auntie Lynn
                  Last edited by 1stwahine; June 14, 2006, 04:47 PM. Reason: ~
                  Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                  Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                    Originally posted by nachodaddy
                    I am not showering with him though, I also have lines that I do not cross.

                    Aiiiyeeeee I no go tell and I neva ask no-ting!

                    pax

                    Comment


                    • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                      WarResisters,

                      Chris...

                      My brother was a Marine.

                      To make a long story short...

                      The Marines made him choose between his psycho wife at the time and the Marines....

                      He chose his then wife at that time.

                      His ex-wife and him are now divorced and he has moved on.
                      However, the repurcussions of some the incidents that has happened to him... because he chose his wife over the Marines is very hard on him right now.... He wishes he could get back into the Marines.

                      I'm not saying what your doing is right... but stepping up here to HT and posting your positions publicly on the matter has brought more knowledge of your situation.

                      I wished that you had done as much research on the Marines...BEFORE you joined.... and realize that all brackets of the military are basically trained to Kill!

                      If you would like to see my Brother, the Marine, that I'm talking about...
                      He is on myspace at http://www.myspace.com/hmktdad (the only person on my front 8 wearing his Marine uniform) I know what you mean by the statement...."once a marine...always a marine"... as he has continued to use the words to me still to this day.

                      This is not a post supporting your actions... this is a post saying mahalo for explaining your actions.

                      Mahalo,

                      Manoa
                      Last edited by damontucker; June 14, 2006, 05:08 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                        I once again would like to reiterate something that I think that many persons here are not understanding when it comes to myself and my research before I entered the Corps. It wasn't a quick desicion in fact it took me almost 6 months before I said I am ready. I completely understood that a MARINE is not a soldier, sailor, or airman (respectively). A Marine's mission is not to defend, it is not to provide long range assault capability, nor be able to provide sea basing for attacks like the other services. We are for one purpose and that is to kill. We are the tip of the spear.That is what drew to becoming a Marine. However, when I joined I did not know or maybe I just didn't want to know that my government was lying to me. I honestly believed that George W. Bush would never lie to this country. But he did. I thought that I was doing the right thing by defending the homeland from terrorist. But now I see that the patriot act is just a way for the government to invade the privacy of its citizens in order to accomplish there own political agenda. I understand now that reason Iraqi civilians are fighting back is not because they want to kill Americans. It is because they do not want to be occupied, they want the bombings, raids, and arbitary arrest to stop. They are fighting back because they want the REPUBLIC OF IRAQ to stand again. The new constitution for Iraq it is a mockery of document, which is why they challenge the new government of Iraq, not because they want to set up a corrupt regime it is the exact opposite.

                        When i joined the Corps. I wanted to fight and die for my country. Not to fight and die for the political means of the GOP which I used to be a card carrying member untill I saw the truth.
                        "Canada shall be a refuge from militarism"
                        Prime Minister Piere Trudeau

                        Comment


                        • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                          Resister Chris!!!

                          Hello your from Hawaii...

                          You thought that the US government was going to tell you the truth after all of your Hawaiian History that you must have had growing up here in Hawaii?

                          You must know that the US can write it's own laws when it feels the need to.

                          Just a quick thought

                          Manoa

                          Comment


                          • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                            Originally posted by manoasurfer123
                            Resister Chris!!!


                            You must know that the US can write it's own laws when it feels the need to.


                            Manoa
                            "When America makes a promise, America keeps the promise."

                            - George W. Bush 6-13-06

                            Comment


                            • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                              Hi Chris;

                              Not a big fan of the Patriot Act myself. Google "Executive Order 9066" for a clue why. We are a screen door away from there.

                              On that dying for your country part, I would hope that your training would allow you to live and that your dedication and discipline would cause your enemy to die for his country, not you. Food for thought.

                              The Republic of Iraq. That has a nice ring to it. I am a big soccer fan. Tomorrow, I am taking off work so I can watch Trinidad and Tobago at least tie England. David versus Goliath and I got a 20 spot on it. One day, I hope to see the Republic of Iraq in the World Cup. They are in a rebuilding mode now. They have not had much luck the last few years.

                              I am thinking we need to rewrite that constitution if everyone is so unhappy about it. If I remember correctly, the Sunnis hated it and the Kurds and Shi'ites liked it. It was almost directly proportional to how many bombs were dropped on their heads pre-US involvement (and indirectly proportional to post US involvement). I am thinking that it would even be easier to just split the country up. Kinda like what went down in Eastern Europe. Since I got soccer on the brain did you know that there is a team representing Serbia-Montenegro? As of May, that country does not exist anymore since they split up. Both countries were part of the former "Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" . Former members also included: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, and Slovenia. Playing the national anthem for the team before the games have been awkward to say the least. Got it!!!! Split Iraq up, everyone is happy, we can go home, you can go home: that is my final answer. Where is my Nobel? I 'll share it with you.

                              Lots of love and aloha here. Hope you stick around.
                              Last edited by nachodaddy; June 14, 2006, 06:48 PM.
                              You Look Like I Need A Drink

                              Comment


                              • Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Hawai‘i Army Lieutenant

                                Prompted by a Fort Lewis Army officer's decision to refuse to fight in Iraq, the First United Methodist Church of Tacoma has declared itself a sanctuary for servicemen and servicewomen who also don't want to go to Iraq.

                                The 300-member congregation's administrative council voted last weekend to open its doors beginning this Saturday after 1st Lt. Ehren Watada announced that he thinks the war in Iraq is illegal and that he has sought to resign his commission.

                                Full story: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...nctuary15.html

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