Molokai Ranch closing operations

[timkona]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Hey Craig, Laau is on the southwestern part of Molokai. So if it's good enough for rich folk, why is it not good enough to set aside for public trust?

This just reenforces my point about Laau being marginal land in the first place.

Konaguy, your answer was very similar to arguments I've heard against Hokulia. Have you changed your tune? Or playing the middle?

Do you really think OHA would swap some of their land for west Molokai? And how much has OHA actually helped any Hawaiians? That is as big a scam as KSBE in the islands, but nary a single Hawaiian would speak up against it.

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Well 68-eldo does have a point. Perhaps people use the defense that a certain place is sacred one too many times? Because if everything is sacred, then everything's not very sacred to begin with.

I completely disagree. In this case that area has a lot cultural significance and is indeed sacred (to me). When I flew into Molokai, I felt the mana of the land. I could completely understand why people are opposed to developing La'au. Up to 200 McMansions would've permanently and irreversibly changed
that area and Molokai forever.

So Tim, is that a good enough answer for you ?

[kani-lehua]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_mahele
http://www.oha.org/index.php?option=...=38&Itemid=134
http://www.oha.org/pdf/HwnHistoryTimeline.pdf

this information might provide some insight into the ownership of lands in hawai'i.

[joshuatree]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

How much land does OHA own on the other islands? Think they would be willing to do a land swap? Then all or most of Molokai would be in the hands of Hawaiians. Is that a fair proposition?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

There's quite a lot of land towards the western end of Molokai that cannot be farmed simply because of the arridness of that area. It's hot and dry with little resources along the way to satisfy anyone living out there. That's why water is so important on the west end.

There may be 50,000 acres of land set aside, but what kind of land is it? If it's on the west side, that's not what I'd consider a good balance. Keep the good stuff and give away the undevelopable lands?

With land swaps going on with ceded lands, more and more of the good ceded lands are being traded away for lands that hold less value both in economic and cultural significance.

Yes Hawaiians never owned any lands, but it's the nation of Hawaii that will be reduced to lands that will be difficult to manage and live upon. Imagine having a really nice home and having a guest take over the living room, then your master bedroom, then the patio next to the pool. Then they bring in their family and occupy all the bedrooms and take over the kitchen.

Pretty soon you and your family are pushed into the garage. Okay that garage has a nice opening to the great outdoors, but hey now that guest and their family decides to occupy your driveway and the encrouchment begins squeezing you out of your home and into the dog house.

Frustrated you begin to resist this guest, so the guest negotiates a deal. He gives you the driveway and a couple of bedrooms but wants to keep the patio with the pool.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Is there any scrap of land anywhere in the state of Hawaii that is not sacred?

For that matter, every space in the world is sacred to somebody, at some level. How do you determine whose claim of "sacred" is important enough to prevent development? Ask that question of the Indian bands here on the Mainland.

In other words, you know there's no simple answer.

[timkona]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

All the handwringing so touches the cockles of my heart. Even down to the sub-cockles.

I thought it was 200 homes and 50,000 preserved acres. Perhaps we should exagerate what is perceived as bad, and minimize what is perceived as good, in true liberal fasion.

I wonder what Uncle Walter does (did) for a living?

Wasteland? In Hawaii? Harumphhh! By the way folks, back in the day, Hawaiians did not own ANY of the land. It belonged to the King.

Hey Random, I've no problem with a wind farm. Did I say that? But what the hey is a "working cultural village"? Or just avoid the question.

Hey Konaguy, why not answer the question about any scrap of land being sacred? I dare you.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Laau point really is pristine lands and Molokai in general is the last of the major Hawaiian Islands to reflect a way of life that can be no longer be found anywhere else one can travel openly in Hawaii.

I understand Walter Ritte's passion for conservation of pristine lands. But I also understand there are people on Molokai who don't reflect Ritte's views and they are the ones that are going to feel the bite.

Halawa Valley on the East side of Molokai really is part of the eastern side of the Us vs Them division of land that has split Molokai into two distinct classes of people. West of Kaunakakai are the homesteaders who have lived in Molokai for generations. East of Kaunakakai are those who have made Molokai their new homes from far away places. It's the basic Haole vs Hawaiian issue going on here. East Molokai had the lushness that Molokai could offer coupled with the ancient fishponds, many from outside ventured in and developed that part of Molokai. West Molokai was basically the waste lands where large tracts of Homestead lands consisted of scraggly Keawe trees and lots of dust with basic homes built for homesteaders.

The only value to West Molokai was the hunting of game and of course the pristine coastline of Laau Point. Take that away from the homesteaders and there's not much left for those in West Molokai to cherish.

Development of Laau Point would bookend those generational families that have tended those lands all those years. It's their place of refuge, and with that taken away due to development, they have nothing left. Those outsiders would have encrouched on their side of the island and slowly take them out.

To Hawaiians, the ocean is very much a part of their culture and way of life. Laau Point allows them the simple luxuries to call their own, like a diamond in the rough, it's their treasure. It really is their land, Hawaiian land. And thru development, it's not, not even in vision for the day Hawaiian's get back what was stolen over a hundred years ago.

As land become developed here in Hawaii, the vision of Hawaii reverting back to Hawaiian hands become more futile as the rich and pristine lands become developed and the cultural ways of life to all Hawaiians diminish because the sacredness of those lands are paved over in the name of progress.

What Walter Ritte really needs to do to preserve what's left of Molokai is to look at creating a natural preserve to ensure no further progress encrouches on the cultural significance of that area in question. But also he needs to address the needs of those living there to satisfy their need for sustanance. Any form of governance would address those needs whether they were American or Hawaiian.

[Random]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

If we're strictly speaking of financial benefit, then I would say property tax that could go into govt coffers, perhaps a County of Molokai instead? And of course, the people who end up living there would be spending for goods and services.

As much as I dream of a Moloka'i County, I'm worried that 200 luxury homes will turn to 500, then to 700. I'm worried how property tax assessment will not only affect those homes but other homes on the island.

Now, I'm not saying 500 (wasn't it 200?) homes is the only option. But I'm wondering did the activists tried to work with MR or did they simply object every step of the way? Didn't MR offer to set aside 20,000+ acres as preservation?

They had many meetings on the island, particularly one where MPL submitted than later withdrew their EIS.

http://www.themolokaidispatch.com/node/1354

[joshuatree]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Tell me, how can 500 luxury homes benefit the entire Moloka'i community (and not just the MR's local employees)?

If we're strictly speaking of financial benefit, then I would say property tax that could go into govt coffers, perhaps a County of Molokai instead? And of course, the people who end up living there would be spending for goods and services.

Now, I'm not saying 500 (wasn't it 200?) homes is the only option. But I'm wondering did the activists tried to work with MR or did they simply object every step of the way? Didn't MR offer to set aside 20,000+ acres as preservation?

[Random]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Well 68-eldo does have a point. Perhaps people use the defense that a certain place is sacred one too many times? Because if everything is sacred, then everything's not very sacred to begin with.

All I can tell you from my eyes, we have seen Maui and Oahu being overdeveloped -- sometimes with government help -- and wish our "fringe" island would not go down that route.

Tell me, how can 500 luxury homes benefit the entire Moloka'i community (and not just the MR's local employees)?

[joshuatree]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

I'm not going to quantify that with a response. All I can say is visit Molokai and then come back and talk to me. Then you'll understand my point of view.

Well 68-eldo does have a point. Perhaps people use the defense that a certain place is sacred one too many times? Because if everything is sacred, then everything's not very sacred to begin with.

I guess I'm just activism fatigued. Have these people suggested anything else that MK could do or did they just simply c*ck blocked every thing MK tried to do? If it's the latter, I think the activists have destroyed Molokai's livelihood.

[Random]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Additional thought, where's the OHA? Why don't they step in to ensure Molokai is kept country?

Beats me. I wonder if OHA ever did explore other alternatives such as a wind farm as the expert panel for mass transit thoroughly explore the other options besides steel wheel on steel rail.

To steal from a quote about Caesar, are you saying that OHA can do no wrong?

I can't helped but question why OHA Trustee Colette Machado would be in favor of it. I'm more willing to believe a former OHA Trustee and former Moloka'i resident Clayton Hee who oppose the Master Plan.

[Konaguy]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

Is there any scrap of land anywhere in the state of Hawaii that is not sacred?

I'm not going to quantify that with a response. All I can say is visit Molokai and then come back and talk to me. Then you'll understand my point of view.

[68-eldo]

Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

La'au may be desolate and empty. But it is also a sacred area and important.........

Is there any scrap of land anywhere in the state of Hawaii that is not sacred?