Most residents don't want more hotels

[timkona]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Polynesians conquered the largest ocean on the planet using "cutting edge" astronomical knowledge. They were 1000 years ahead of their time. Obvious proof of how smart these folks used to be.

Fast forward to the modern day, where cutting edge astronomy is villified, and Hawaiians struggle academically, as reported in another thread.

A heaping helping of truth is never palatable to a starving mind.

[joshuatree]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

A casino on Kahoolawe works fine. People in Hawaii have to "travel" to get to the casino so that satisfies the urge to get off the rock. It's isolated so you can control the gambling so to speak. It gives the Kanaka Maoli a source of revenue to address their challenges much like the Indian tribes on the mainland. Rich people like to gamble too, especially the high rollers.

Waikiki should host more venues like big time shows like the way Vegas does, Blue Man, Circus so...(sp??), etc. Then you can provide more jobs and increase revenue.

Is this becoming more mainland? What exactly is becoming more mainland? If you mean finding ways to diversifying the economy means becoming more mainland, then so be it. Not everything from the mainland is bad. Otherwise, please turn in your cars, cell phones, computers, etc. That's all stuff from the mainland.

I also am for increasing tech and medicine to diversify the economy. On that scale, I suggest we pump even more money into UH to make the campus first rate and to attract big name researchers. Only when you have that can you incubate the high tech and biotech firms. Tax rebates is only one part of the equation.

People need to stop fearing progress. Progress doesn't mean destruction and loss of a way of life. If people embrace progress and spend their time figuring out how to adapt progress Hawaiian Style, you don't lose your way of life, you rather enhance it.

[Miulang]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

My point is politics of NO, along with the fact Hawaii has a horrible business climate, onerous government bureaucracy/regulations, plantation politics and unions still wield a lot of control over here. Thus stifling innovative, diversifying industries like the telescopes on Haleakala and Mauna Kea. Maui High Performance Computing Center would certainly not exist if the Air Force did not have facilities up on Haleakala.

By saying no to the idea of allowing the Native Hawaiians to control their own destiny, aren't you also practicing the politics of NO? The Maui High Tech Computing Center, which is part of the Maui Research and Technology Park in Kihei, was started because of a DoD contract, but they are diversifying their tenants to include private companies, too. They were just up here in this area recruiting expats to come back to Hawai'i to work. I was planning to attend, but had a conflict in my schedule that evening, but the next time they come up here, I'll be there to talk to some of the companies that are looking for technology workers.

Miulang

BTW: Did you read the link about the Tulalip Tribes? (if that link doesn't work, try this one). Right next to that casino is something called the Seattle Premium Outlets (don't ask me how they can get away with calling it "Seattle" because Seattle is about 45 miles away. )

Both the casino and the outlet mall are built on Tulalip Reservation land in a federally recognized town called Quil Ceda. The mall is huge and has every single upscale store you could imagine...from Coach Leather to Gucci to Noritake. Guess what? Every single weekend, the offramps to get to that mall and casino are gridlocked. You have to circle for quite awhile to find a parking space or end up parking in the boonies. You see cars bearing license plates from Vancouver, BC and Oregon. People drive for hours and miles to get there. Do you think the casino and that outlet mall aren't creating jobs? Do you think those workers aren't paying taxes to the State or to Snohomish County?

[Konaguy]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Due to the abundance of UXO, I'm not sure Kahoolawe is a viable or smart location to open a casino.

I know I'll be accused of being a hypocrite after I say this. But I can remember The way Kailua-Kona used to be. I've been to mainland numerous times. I don't want Hawaii turned into one big strip mall, like they've got on the mainland.

On the flip side though, I realize that Hawaii is in for a rough future if we continue to depend heavily on tourism, construction, real estate, and the military. Hence why we need to diversify our economy. But also try to protect
the reasons why tourists come to Hawaii.

[Konaguy]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Maui News Article

If the USAF did not have their Haleakala facilities, MHPCC would not exist today. Thus we wouldn't have one of the fastest supercomputers in the world here on Maui. Also we would've have Subaru's telescope support facility in Hilo, which has a supercomputer with a 250 terabyte hard drive.

All I'm saying is we need to nurture projects like these. Instead of building casinos. Which is too related to tourism, in my opinion. Retailing, tourism, and casinos are all cyclical industries. If we have another terrorist attack like 9/11, look how it affected Las Vegas or Hawaii.

I'm intimately familiar with the Tualip tribes project. I've visited that area in 2002 and 2004. I've seen their casino. It seemed too Las Vegas to me.Totally out of place for the area.

[Miulang]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Maui News Article

If the USAF did not have their Haleakala facilities, MHPCC would not exist today. Thus we wouldn't have one of the fastest supercomputers in the world here on Maui. Also we would've have Subaru's telescope support facility in Hilo, which has a supercomputer with a 250 terabyte hard drive.

All I'm saying is we need to nurture projects like these. Instead of building casinos. Which is too related to tourism, in my opinion. Retailing, tourism, and casinos are all cyclical industries. If we have another terrorist attack like 9/11, look how it affected Las Vegas or Hawaii.
.

I've also heard that if they put any more stuff next to Science City on Haleakala, it will detract from some of the experiments that go on up there because it could change the atmospheric conditions (i.e., too much light cast by surrounding buildings. And yes, there's also a worry about the fragile ecosystem due to increased human traffic )

And you're right. I wouldn't put all my money on the things that drive Hawai'i's economy today, either. But to do a major paradigm shift to an economy that isn't dependent on tourism, construction or the military will take time, and in the meantime, you still have tourists who want to spend all their money in Hawai'i. Not many of them are interested in touring a macadamia nut farm (I would, and have, but only because I appreciate what agriculture could do for the State and its people). But it doesn't have to be an all or nothing, this or that, proposition. Why couldn't you nurture high tech or alternative economic alternatives and allow the Native Hawaiians to increase their economic opportunities at the same time? OHA has money; Bishop Estate has money. They could and should be looking at ways to increase business diversity and not rely entirely on land leases or rents or land sales.

The Indian tribes up here don't only rely on their casinos to bring in money, but as long as there is money to be made from people who want to gamble, why not? That's like buying interisland airplane tickets during a fare war...you buy them while you can. The tribes are using that income as seed money to help them diversify into other business opportunities and to build things like health care centers, schools, cultural programs...things that will help their own people...without having to rely on the government and our taxes for handouts. That, to me, is a good thing.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Due to the abundance of UXO, I'm not sure Kahoolawe is a viable or smart location to open a casino.

I know I'll be accused of being a hypocrite after I say this. But I can remember The way Kailua-Kona used to be. I've been to mainland numerous times. I don't want Hawaii turned into one big strip mall, like they've got on the mainland.

On the flip side though, I realize that Hawaii is in for a rough future if we continue to depend heavily on tourism, construction, real estate, and the military. Hence why we need to diversify our economy. But also try to protect
the reasons why tourists come to Hawaii.

I'm not worried about UXO, if anything, maybe intending on building a casino there will create the pressure needed to make the military expedite their cleanup. It's long past the supposed deadline. And my support for a casino is not on the level of Vegas, with the Strip, and all them lights. A low key one like most Indian Tribes run is perfect. Yes, some tribes have gone the way of Vegas but who said that is mandatory? Some tribal casinos have become gaudy and flashy because they have to compete with Vegas and other various tribes. Don't see that prob here. I also don't see miles and miles of strip malls like the mainland sustainable on Kahoolawe which is perfect.

[timkona]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

I don't want Hawaii turned into one big strip mall, like they've got on the mainland.

One way to prevent this from happening is to build taller buildings that have mixed uses, and mixed dwelling sizes upstairs, from studio apartments to 3 bedroom condos. Orange County is one giant strip mall primarily because of the building height restriction that has been in force there for years and years, and because of the narrow minded zoning practice associated with it.

I also do not want to see Hawaii turned into a strip mall. Unfortunately, many of the folks who live here are horrified by taller buildings, or the notion of anybody living in a small space ie studio.

So it looks like Hawaii will become a giant strip mall because that is what people want.

When you hear somebody reject the idea of taller buildings, you can be certain they prefer urban sprawl, and the destruction of the land. OR you can pray they are ignorant of the facts and open minded enough to learn.

[Miulang]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

[QUOTE=timkona;121730]

When you hear somebody reject the idea of taller buildings, you can be certain they prefer urban sprawl, and the destruction of the land. OR you can pray they are ignorant of the facts and open minded enough to learn.

Taller buildings, yes, but not 30-story skyscrapers, either. Given that the island chain appears to be having some acid indigestion lately with all those earthquakes, I'm not sure you'd get too many people willing to live on that 30th floor. I could see having a building height restriction of maybe 4 or 5 stories---low rise developments--which do increase population density but also make it safer for residents to evacuate in a timely manner and don't impinge too much on the island scenery.

I used to work on the 16th floor of a building. Everytime we had a false fire alarm, we couldn't use the elevators and had to trudge down about 8 flights of stairs to safety. It wasn't the walking down that was bad; it was the walking back up that killed my knees every time!

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Given that the island chain appears to be having some acid indigestion lately with all those earthquakes, I'm not sure you'd get too many people willing to live on that 30th floor.

Tell that to all the people who are moving into the new buildings going up in Kakaako... and the ones to follow on Kapiolani and near the state capitol building...

There are more than a few people still willing to move into high-rise buildings here in Honolulu.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

When you hear somebody reject the idea of taller buildings, you can be certain they prefer urban sprawl, and the destruction of the land. OR you can pray they are ignorant of the facts and open minded enough to learn.

Gosh! Now why would I be against more tall buildings? Especially since those pretty new ones full of rich people just to the right of the middle that are right down there close to the water's edge such that no more buildings could be built between them and the water? And if anyone else ever wants to the see the ocean again, it will have to be in buildings built even higher then the ones pictured?

That space toward the left? Thank you Wal-Mart/Ala Moana center.

[Miulang]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Tell that to all the people who are moving into the new buildings going up in Kakaako... and the ones to follow on Kapiolani and near the state capitol building...

There are more than a few people still willing to move into high-rise buildings here in Honolulu.

Well, one of the moderators on this very forum has stated that he is a little anxious about living in the high rise building he's in right now after the Oct. 15th tremblor and would love to move out soon.

Even "earthquake-resistant" high rise buildings will still torque and bend (either that or they would break into pieces). It's quite an interesting feeling to be on the 32nd floor of a building with a brisk breeze blowing...you can actually feel the building moving. I would be horrified to be stuck on the 32nd floor if an earthquake happened in the middle of the night and I was thrown out of bed by it. But then, what do I know? I'm just a stupid Mainland tourist.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

Well, one of the moderators on this very forum has stated that he is a little anxious about living in the high rise building he's in right now after the Oct. 15th tremblor and would love to move out soon.

One person, compared to hundreds, if not thousands, of new residents moving in.

Even "earthquake-resistant" high rise buildings will still torque and bend (either that or they would break into pieces). It's quite an interesting feeling to be on the 32nd floor of a building with a brisk breeze blowing...you can actually feel the building moving. I would be horrified to be stuck on the 32nd floor if an earthquake happened in the middle of the night and I was thrown out of bed by it. But then, what do I know? I'm just a stupid Mainland tourist.

Well, if the shoe fits...

Sure, it would be scary, but there are others who would gladly take their chances living in a high-rise building. If people weren't willing to move in, the developers wouldn't build the buildings.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

And if anyone else ever wants to the see the ocean again, it will have to be in buildings built even higher then the ones pictured?

Not if you move into another building closer to the water...

[joshuatree]

Re: Most residents don't want more hotels

I think high rises are actually much much safer than a low rise in a large earthquake. Look at all the big ones to hit places like LA or Japan. It's always the low to mid-rises that aren't up to code that collapse. High rises by default require a stricter building code.