Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

[Jonah K]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

Wow. I didn't realize that most of the folks here believed in the old hawaiian folklore literally. I think that will be a stumbling block in advancing the cause personally, but everyone has the right to their own religious beliefs. If the new Hawaiian government is to be based on the traditional religious beliefs of the kanaka, it changes my perspective quite a bit. I'll have to read more about the lore to see what the new state would look like.

Some of us here don't take the Hawaiian folklore literally, but one has to start somewhere.

Here's a link to article that touches upon a few scientific theories....
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...0356/1001/NEWS

[brianca]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

Sorry. I wasn't referring to your links, jonah. they actually contain a very nice spread of folklore and how it relates the facts on the ground that hawaiians were dealing with when they were created. It's a good read so far.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

brianca, you seem pretty naive about almost everything Hawaiian. I checked your earlier posts and you never really introduced yourself. Who are you anyway?

[brianca]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

I'm not really sure how to answer that. I'm brianca. What do you want to know?

[808shooter]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

Good point my Japanese brother. I like you, am 100% Japanese, but I am also a 4th generation Hawaii-born Japanese. My great-grandfather on my dad's side was the first. He as well as his son were born in the Kingdom of Hawaii and was a "Hawaiian" citizen under the monachcy. I feel if the were to restore the "monachcy" ALL of the people who have ties to the "KINGDOM" should have thier rights too. My son who his kanaka maoli on his birthmother's side, is also a 5th generation Hawaii Japanese.

just curious. what is this cutoff date?

1893?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

You statement...onflicts with Jonah's links info...Which would you say is correct?

I cannot speak for Jonah's link except to say that the quotes you share is incomplete in its context. Any attempt to answer the Great Question in a limited fashion by only focusing on one migration is incomplete. Thus, the obvious answer is of course, I am correct.

[Jonah K]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

just curious. what is this cutoff date?

1893?

It was the year that Lili'uokalani was overthrown.
http://starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/m...um/story7.html

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

yours was not the only answer given, though even in yours the scientific history is relegated to secondary status to the religious beliefs. you don't have to defend that to me. You have every right to the belief, I was just surprised by it. That's all. Different beliefs are what makes us an interesting people.

How did you come to conclude that my posts relegated scientific history as secondary status? And twice you mention "beliefs" in a religious context, when my narrative was thorough to include all pov--including the Hawaiian one where we start with genealogy, and yes, these islands have their own genealogy. Let us step aside of these lens and allow me to make myself clear: genealogical ties to the islands are neither religious nor "belief"-based. I am here. Hawaiians have kept the genealogies for hundreds of generations, consistently so. They were here for their lifetimes, birthing and birthing, hence I am here. That's fact. If they weren't here before me, I wouldn't be here.

These are not incompatible; they are simply two of a myriad of ways of looking at things. As for looking at the science of it, I am very much respectful and a lover of science. I do not confuse the two.

[brianca]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

I'm not sure I follow. The passage I pulled that from seems to be talking about the first arrivals. It mentions later migrations, but none before. The second link jonah provided seemed to agree with that based on carbon dating.

Who were the earlier immigrants to the islands than those mentioned in the article, and when do you believe the first arrival took place?


Also, for those that believe the ancient religions, do they provide a rough estimate of the age of the earth similar to the way that the judeo-christian religion does in a round about way?

[brianca]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

clearly it's a fact that people live on the islands and have for many years. I'd say that it's a belief to state that Hawaiians have always been here as you did twice. You have a belief that the islands and the men who inhabit them were created together at the same time, and that's fine, but that's a belief not based on facts. It may be a fact, but the belief is not based on those facts.

I don't dispute that people have lived here for many generations, but it's my belief that those people came from elsewhere and long after the earth was created. I can't prove that either, but that's my belief.

I think use of the word beliefs is appropriate here.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

Brianca, first of all, you are bringing up some fantastic questions. Thank you for doing that. Second, please pick up a copy of the 3/06 issue of National Geographic, "The Greatest Journey Ever Told: the Trail of Our DNA"

Here's a great link from that issue:
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/n...ine_extra.html and it is fascinating to see how this African-American woman shared mitochondrial DNA with a Samoan, a Maori and a Hawaiian.

[brianca]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

That is an amazingly fascinating project, IMO. My dad has some small involvement in the tech part of it through IBM, and I've been following it for a while now. I'm actually awaiting my own results to arrive soon. I'm very excited to see what the long term outcome of the project is.

Thanks for bringing it up, I didn't even think of the connection of that project to my current questions.

[Jonah K]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

I'm very excited to see what the long term outcome of the project is.

Ultimately, it'll prove that we're all related to a certain degree.

Of course, some folks don't need a DNA test to know that they're related. When I first went to Samoa a couple of decades ago and recited my genealogy, it became apparent that I had several ancestors in common with some of the paramount chiefs on the island of Savai'i.

[brianca]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

hopefully it'll be a little more detailed than that. Otherwise they wasted a lot of cool computer resources crunching numbers.

Do the Hawaiian myth cover the creation of the other people in the world? Something like the story of bable?

[Got2HaVKaYaNoW]

Re: Kanaka Maoli: Nationalism vs Ethnicity?

haven't read entire post cuz...its too long but on the initial question, I'd like to say sometings...

I'm 3 slices shy of a full hawaiian pizza pie everything else is made up of japanease...potagee...tahitian...german.

So with that in mind...I'm happy to have hawaiian as my ethnicity, thats great, but I don't participate in the whole IMUA..soveriegnty thing(mainly cuz I no can spell it..lol) nah, J/K. anyway am I less of a hawaiian cuz I don't support Hawaiians Independence?

I would actually be afraid to be an independent government...wit' all the crooks around deez dayz..sheesh half of 'em in the state gov. jobs are always on the news...da guy who got money from the state using shell companys , i foaget his name...den KSBE..what did half those former trustee's do...i foaget...but was so shame.

oohh fart , I gotta go...c-yall tomarrow,

Kaya T.