Kau Inoa

[matapule]

Re: Kau Inoa

Hawaii's history is just a retelling of man's conquest of man, which is the history of the world in a nutshell.

Good!, some meaningful discussion!

Regardless of the roots or agenda behind a Hawaiian nationalist movement, it is my opinion that indigenous Hawaiians DO have a legitimate beef with regards to the "annexation" of their homeland. This is nothing new. The United States of America (of which Hawai'i is now a member) has set a precedent of redressing the wrongs of failed policies of the past, for example African Americans and American Indians.

What can be done today, that is both realistic and responsible, to address the issues of the nationalist movement? "Haole go home" is not realistic, it is not responsible, and it is not consistent with the aloha spirit. There is no excuse for rude behavior because it is a "sensitive" issue.

I am here to revere, respect, nurture, and honor the legacy of the indigenous Hawaiians as a national treasure. Let's work together to achieve justice for kanaka maoli.

Ofa 'atu
Mui Houma

[salmoned]

Re: Kau Inoa

Regardless of the roots or agenda behind a Hawaiian nationalist movement, it is my opinion that indigenous Hawaiians DO have a legitimate beef with regards to the "annexation" of their homeland. This is nothing new. The United States of America (of which Hawai'i is now a member) has set a precedent of redressing the wrongs of failed policies of the past, for example African Americans and American Indians.

Matapule, you don't mean what you say here, "Regardless of the roots or agenda..."!!!??? If the roots arise from criminal intention and/or the agenda is willful destruction of the property or lives of others [as just two possible examples], then there would be no 'legitimate beef', whatsoever. That the immature U.S. Government has feebly [and misguidedly] redressed past 'wrongs' in other cases doesn't endorse or validate anyone's 'beef'. 'Haole, go home' is just as unworkable as 'Haole, stay on that side of this line'. I suggested it in answer to the question because there is nothing better to be done that is more effective and less damaging to society - it's the best answer to a bad proposition. In case you hadn't noticed, I don't support the Hawaiian Movement.

[matapule]

Re: Kau Inoa

Matapule, you don't mean what you say here, "Regardless of the roots or agenda..."!!!??? If the roots arise from criminal intention and/or the agenda is willful destruction of the property or lives of others [as just two possible examples], then there would be no 'legitimate beef', whatsoever.

You misconstrue what I said. With regards to the 'roots or agenda' I was speaking of whether the movement is based on race or not. I certainly was not referring to criminal activity or destruction of property. Ghandi was very effective in resting control of his country from British Colonial rule without violence. Today, India has a very real chance of developing into a Superpower, if they haven't already. Would that have happened under British rule? I doubt it, but I could be wrong.

That the........ U.S. Government has.........redressed past 'wrongs' in other cases doesn't endorse or validate anyone's 'beef'.

Perhaps not, but it certainly leads to expectations.

In case you hadn't noticed, I don't support the Hawaiian Movement.

I respect your position. So if clearing the islands of all but indigenous Hawaiians is unworkable by your own admission, then what is your solution to an issue that continues to fester and will not go away anytime soon, if ever? You obviously have an interest, since you visit this Thread.

Ofa 'atu
Mui Houma

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Kau Inoa

(And don't quiz me Leo...)

No worries, Tim. Your many posts on this particular issue have led me to do some thinking to the degree that I not only see your p.o.v., but there are a number of aspects (not everything, but certainly some) with which I find myself in agreement. Carry on.

[salmoned]

Re: Kau Inoa

Matapule, I did not misconstrue, you misspoke. I suggest you restrict your comments to what you mean, rather than allow readers a wide interpretation via broad, unintentional language. By suggesting you leave, I only mean to point out to you that the best possible solution to the issue may be unacceptable to you and, perhaps, you should revisit your 'decision' to support the Hawaiian Movement. By not leaving, you are failing to support the Movement and any other action you take can only be less helpful or irrelevant. I never implied leaving was unworkable, I merely stated that Hawaiian Sovereignty is a bad proposition for everyone and should be answered with, "No, thank you."

[matapule]

Re: Kau Inoa

Interesting interpretation of written words! You are probably right, about my misspeaking. My bad. It wasn't the first time and it probably won't be the last. I am just happy that I was able to clarify my misspeaking..which you ignored.

So, if I understand correctly, your solution to the issues is "ignore them." That is certainly one appraoch and you may be right.

Whew, I'm glad we finally got down to a clear answer!

Ofa 'atu
Mui Houma

[salmoned]

Re: Kau Inoa

Okay, you're getting closer. Now just take the next step all the way to what I'm actually suggesting - not to ignore, but to deny the possibility. I hold the Sovereignty Movement with exactly the same regard as NAMbLA. That's my position. For those who originally thought I had sympathies to the Movement, sorry for the whiplash.

[kani-lehua]

Re: Kau Inoa

"The achilles heal of the sovereignty movement is that it IS rooted in race. Not publicly, not formally, not loudly, not obviously, and if you ask this crucial question, of course, everybody, like kani-lehua, will deny that race is a central concern. Truth is truth, whether or not we choose to acknowledge it."

i was referring to being a "hawaii national". that is NOT a race issue.

as far as the sovereignty movement, many kanaka maoli make it such. imo, mahealani's group who demonstrated at i'olani palace, made it a racial issue. they would not allow anyone who did not have koko to access the grounds (except the media). in my opinion, that was wrong.

again, imo, the movement should be about the illegal US occupation of the Kingdom of Hawai'i. it shouldn't be about race, but more about nationality or citizenship. one only needs to read james blount's account/report, grover cleveland's message to the senate and house of representatives on december 18, 1893 and the "apology resolution" public law 103-150 passed by congress (US) and signed by US president clinton on november 23, 1993 to understand the truth of the situation. there are many international treaties between the Kingdom of Hawai'i and countries that exist today as well as the Kingdom's 1863 constitution.

"truth is truth, whether or not we choose to acknowledge it." exactly my point. you are addressing that statement to the wrong person. i do not have anything to deny or acknowledge BUT THE TRUTH. i'm not the one in denial, tim.

[timkona]

Re: Kau Inoa

Sorry Kani. Reread the post and see now.

Somehow I don't see the SovMov as evil in their motives. In fact, I don't know that I have an opinion there, except to say that if the racial shadows disappeared, I would need to reexamine the issue with an open mind. No doubt a nation was changed to a state, and many folks never liked that.

I can be a good citizen in a Kingdom or a Federal Republic. And I love Hawaii.

[kani-lehua]

Re: Kau Inoa

no doubt in my mind that you love hawai'i, tim. we all do. the question is which hawai'i is it? or which hawai'i will it be? i don't know. a very complex situation.

happy sailing...."red sails in the sunset....."

[LikaNui]

Re: Kau Inoa

Every time I drive up the windward coast I've seen this large sign about Kau Inoa but have never been able to read it, since I was driving.
Yesterday I finally had my camera with me so I pulled over and snapped this photo: