Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

[ArchangelX]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

I used to live in Tacoma, I have a pretty good idea of the mess up there.

[kilikopela]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

[scratching head]

What, specifically, is Senator Hanabusa's conflict of interest on this matter?

Chun-Oakland did not involve herself in this because the matter involved her father-in-law. You say Hanabusa should not have voted because ... lobbyists talked to her?

more or less, she didnt weigh the differences and she was influenced heavily by SORT, and because the district she represents are inhibited by SORT. I must be speaking with too much heart, not much logic. She can push a tax credit bill for Ko Olina, but can't push the tax credit bill for a race track?

To think that the legislative gave it to the person who they knew would kill the bill. Generally...I think that's just messed up and shouldve removed herself from the decision...to her, that was her piece of lasagna and whacked it like there was no tomorrow.

[zztype]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

If Oakland and his hui want to still build a racetrack without using any State revenue resources (tax credits or whatever) in Hawai'i, then I say, full speed ahead. I only have issues when a private enterprise wants to use tax dollars to help subsidize something that isn't totally necessary for the health and safety of all residents.

I believe there is only one instance of a community fully supporting a sports franchise, and that's the Green Bay Packers, which has close to 112,000 "owners" from the community as shareholders. If Mike Oakland could do something like this, then it would be a winner in my eyes.

Miulang

Hey, yah! Mike, if you're reading this...think about it. I would consider buying some shares, and so would a whole bunch of other people, I think. That would leave the financing to the people who cared and wanted a facility like that. It wouldn't force everyone to pay for some peoples' pleasure.

Blaine

[ArchangelX]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

Welps, Kilik, Senator Taniguchi was against the bill as well, that's why he handed it off to Senator Hanabusa...it's called punting.

[ArchangelX]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

[scratching head]

What, specifically, is Senator Hanabusa's conflict of interest on this matter?

Chun-Oakland did not involve herself in this because the matter involved her father-in-law. You say Hanabusa should not have voted because ... lobbyists talked to her?

The problem lies in the fact that she was biased by her own district constituents...in a matter that was involving more districts than her own. She absolutely refused to listen a to the majority of the other tenants, and instead, chose to shut the bill down. We don't even really think she paid any attention to our emails...as she pretty much sent out an email to everyone telling us we were sending duplicates...like that matters. It's still a vote for yes, support the track.

There's alotta wheeling and dealing going on, and to be honest, after being at the capitol for the past year and a half, and seeing how Hawaii politics works, it kinda makes me sick at my stomach. Senator Hanabusa wrote this fantastic article saying, let's support tax credit bills, and then she shot ours down. Talk about ironic.

[Miulang]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

The problem lies in the fact that she was biased by her own district constituents...in a matter that was involving more districts than her own. She absolutely refused to listen a to the majority of the other tenants, and instead, chose to shut the bill down. We don't even really think she paid any attention to our emails...as she pretty much sent out an email to everyone telling us we were sending duplicates...like that matters. It's still a vote for yes, support the track.

There's alotta wheeling and dealing going on, and to be honest, after being at the capitol for the past year and a half, and seeing how Hawaii politics works, it kinda makes me sick at my stomach. Senator Hanabusa wrote this fantastic article saying, let's support tax credit bills, and then she shot ours down. Talk about ironic.

If you guys really want your track, you gotta be like running water when it meets an obstacle...you gotta go around da obstacle (Hanabusa and the Legislature) and figure out how to get what you want without the State's help. If you have enough supporters, you can thumb your noses at the legislators who say yes to your face and then sabotage you in the end. Sour grapes aren't going to get you guys very far...think like that running water...

Miulang

[ArchangelX]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

I think we're already doing that...but you make it sound so easy. We were depending on those tax bills to help lure the big auto manufacture companies, along with keeping the bottom line low, so that we can keep the entry fees down for local racers. Without the bills, it's going to be a bit less incentive for private investors to take a chance.

It's hard to think like running water when you've got a dam for a senator blocking your way.

[poinographer]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

Um, that low(er) entry fee argument is not going to win much sympathy from non-racers. Racing is a luxury.

Put a few less dollars into the vehicle and there's your high(er) entry fee.

[ArchangelX]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

As far as that's concerned, why do you think it's unfair to want to make it easier for the local racers to use a new facility? Just because you're not a racer? So have you ever watched a race on TV? It's not just for racers, it's for spectators as well.

If you understood the tax credit, there'd be no discussion over this matter, anyways. Golf is a luxury (they're talking about giving golf courses a tax credit for switching to potable water!), skating is a luxury, football is a luxury, the Ko Olina World Class Aquarium is a luxury (it got a tax credit, and it's not even built yet), yet they all have facilities dedicated to them. That's all we're asking for.

Anyways, we're beating a dead horse, like I said, because the tax bills are dead.

[Miulang]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

I think we're already doing that...but you make it sound so easy. We were depending on those tax bills to help lure the big auto manufacture companies, along with keeping the bottom line low, so that we can keep the entry fees down for local racers. Without the bills, it's going to be a bit less incentive for private investors to take a chance.

It's hard to think like running water when you've got a dam for a senator blocking your way.

If you throw your hands up and say that your only salvation is the State Legislature, you're really going to get frustrated. The State has so many more pressing priorities and I think if Oakland's hui can start fundraising on its own, it could then probably go back to the Legislature with some demonstrable proof (i.e. show them the money) where they might consider giving you guys something rather than nothing. It's never an all or nothing situation, or at least it never should be looked at as such. Whenever you put yourself into an all or nothing situation, you have a 50% chance of getting nothing. If you approach this by putting yourself in the other person's shoes (in this case the Legislature) and try to work with them on a compromise, you might get farther. I dunno if you'd lure the big auto manufacture companies to Hawai'i anyway. It would cost them beaucoup bux to ship cars over...I think even interisland competitions are gonna be tough to pull off.

Miulang

[poinographer]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

As far as that's concerned, why do you think it's unfair to want to make it easier for the local racers to use a new facility? Just because you're not a racer? So have you ever watched a race on TV? It's not just for racers, it's for spectators as well.

If you understood the tax credit, there'd be no discussion over this matter, anyways. Golf is a luxury (they're talking about giving golf courses a tax credit for switching to potable water!), skating is a luxury, football is a luxury, the Ko Olina World Class Aquarium is a luxury (it got a tax credit, and it's not even built yet), yet they all have facilities dedicated to them. That's all we're asking for.

Anyways, we're beating a dead horse, like I said, because the tax bills are dead.

Uh, I never said it is "unfair" to support a tax credit for a racetrack. I said it was an unpersuasive argument to rely on a "keeping it cheap for racers" claim.

However, keep your chin up. The fact that your argument isn't persuasive (to me) doesn't mean that politicians can't/won't be persuaded to support it. Been to our "world class aquarium" lately? Heh.

[kilikopela]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

hah! our office did the landscaping at the world class aquarium.

[ArchangelX]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

Yeah....I see your argument. Anyways, we're to the point now where I don't think we're even looking that direction anymore. I'll have more info as I get it...but I think we might be going a different route.

I thought we had a world class aquarium down in Waikiki?

[kilikopela]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

oh well..all is said and done, and now there is $1M in hold for condemnation of the track. Gonna need about 30, upwards to 50 when things get sorted out and the value upraised for the land. not to mention all the other things that's needed to get the track operable.

everyone suggesting or saying that MO could have done with out the tax credits, now we're faced with something worse...using your tax money. I hope you all will write to your senators and reps about this. this is so sad, they can't even synchronize ft weavers traffic lights.

[ArchangelX]

Re: Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

Just as an example of the work put into this process, here's the year 2000 predevelopment plan for the new facility at Parcel 9.

http://www.raceeventshawaii.com/Asse...ied_predev.doc

A very informative read, and it shows the thought that's gone behind this entire push for the new facility. One good read will show you that this is a seriously intended project.