New smoking ban

[sinjin]

Re: New smoking ban

I'm glad we have people on the mainland that care enough about the people of Hawaii to express there thoughts and ideas to those of us here in Hawaii.

If more people thought the same way... we would probably have less racist people in the world.

Thank you Miulang and others on the mainland that participate here on HT!

I learn a lot from you guys... I don't always agree... but I do learn things.

That's a very thoughtful thing to say. Thanks even if I'm not included.

[Brad White]

Re: New smoking ban

Here is a story I am sure you will be interested in...

Anti-tobacco forces are opening a new front in the war against smoking by banning it in private places such as homes and cars when children are present.

Starting Jan. 1, Texas will restrict smoking in foster parents' homes at all times and in cars when children are present, says Darrell Azar of the Department of Family and Protective Services.

ON DEADLINE: Do you agree with the law?

Vermont, Washington and other states and counties already prohibit foster parents from smoking around children in their homes and cars.

Arkansas and Louisiana passed laws this year forbidding anyone from smoking in cars carrying young children. Courts are ordering smoke-free environments in custody and visitation disputes.

"We are very rapidly moving to protect children from secondhand smoke," says John Banzhaf, executive director of Action on Smoking and Health. "Even from their own parents and grandparents."

Former surgeon general Richard Carmona said in June that children exposed to secondhand smoke suffer an increased risk of respiratory ailments and sudden infant death syndrome.

Most smoking bans apply to workplaces and spots like bars and restaurants.

Smokers' rights groups liken banning smoking in private to the "Salem witch hunt," says Gary Nolan, spokesman for The Smoker's Club, Inc. He says secondhand smoke is not dangerous. "If we don't reverse this, they'll be telling us what we can eat and what we can feed our children," Nolan says.

Former smoker Bob Mathis, a Democratic state representative in Arkansas, sponsored a law that bars smoking in a car carrying a child young enough to require a car seat. It took effect in July. A violator can be fined $25 but can get out of it with proof of participation in a smoking-cessation program. A similar law took effect in Louisiana in August.

"We have laws on the books in every state of the union against child abuse," Mathis says. "This is a form of child abuse."

At least six states and some counties prohibit foster parents from smoking when foster children are present, says Kathleen Dachille, director of the Legal Resource Center for Tobacco Regulation, Litigation & Advocacy at the University of Maryland School of Law. "There are times when it's appropriate to regulate what people can do in their home," she says. "The state is responsible for that child."

Some courts are ordering parents in custody and visitation disputes not to smoke around their kids.

Initially, courts considered restrictions when children had ailments such as asthma that are exacerbated by smoke, says Linda Elrod, a law professor and editor of Family Law Quarterly. Now, they're more willing to restrict smoking even when there are no obvious health problems, she says. It generally comes up when one parent complains about the other's smoking.

[AbsolutChaos]

Re: New smoking ban

Happened to see this on MySpace...

"If you have an opinion on the smoking law and are looking for some potential screen time respond to this bulletin, or email me
roger@adhdfilms.com

The film is called "Smoke Brakes" and it is about the new smoking law. There is a clip called 2nd Hand Kareoke kills at http://www.myspace.com/adhdfilms

Feel free to re-post to other friends...

Roger Wilko
roger@adhdfilms.com "

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Resist this ban. If it ain't stopped here soon it will be banned on the street, in your car, and many condos. Other types of personal freedoms are following. It can be stopped, sign the petition, attend the future rallies. More on this later.

Let consenting adults and owners choose for themselves in PRIVATELY OWNED bars. Well over half of bar patrons and most owners are opposed to this ban. Not 15% like the DOH says.

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

If non-smoking bars and clubs are so profitable, and people love it so much, why didn't private establishments just go ahead and ban smoking on their own? Seems strange that so many bars allowed smoking considering it's the terrible thing this law makes it out to be...

Let private businesses decide how they want to run their operations...

[SouthKona]

Re: New smoking ban

If non-smoking bars and clubs are so profitable, and people love it so much, why didn't private establishments just go ahead and ban smoking on their own? Seems strange that so many bars allowed smoking considering it's the terrible thing this law makes it out to be...
Let private businesses decide how they want to run their operations...

News stories and interviews told that one of the arguments for having a total ban is so that the "playing field is level" for all bars. It can be concerning to a bar owner to cut off smoking while the bar next door allows it. Many of the successful restaurant/bars banned smoking on their own, but some bars were more hesitant to do so because they were afraid of losing business to smoking-allowed bars. Having a law that covers all businesses does level out the playing field. The big bonus is that everyone gets cleaner air.

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

"cleaner air?"

That should be up the individual bar or club. It shouldn't be forced.

This is private property we're talking about. And that's where this law is an encroachment on rights. Not "the right to smoke" but rather the right to run a private business as the owner sees fit.

As I've said before, there are lots of bars and clubs that were non-smoking before this law... I don't see why non-smokers couldn't just go there. I still am not convinced why it's imperative to force a private place to ban a legal substance.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

It can be concerning to a bar owner to cut off smoking while the bar next door allows it.

Why? It should be purely a business decision.

Or basically, what Dick said.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

Be grateful you don't live in Texas, where they are trying to ban smoking in cars carrying children. That, even to me, is going WAAAAAAY above board. I mean, if parents don't care that their kids are being exposed to second hand smoke in a very small enclosed area like a car, then nobody, not even the law, is going to be able to help.

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: New smoking ban

Be grateful you don't live in Texas, where they are trying to ban smoking in cars carrying children. That, even to me, is going WAAAAAAY above board. I mean, if parents don't care that their kids are being exposed to second hand smoke in a very small enclosed area like a car, then nobody, not even the law, is going to be able to help.

Miulang

What if they roll the window(s) down? Please quantify the risk then.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

What if they roll the window(s) down? Please quantify the risk then.

There will still be residual smoke particles left on the seats and the interior which could still be breathed in (that's why you can still smell smoke even if there's no one smoking at the time). In the summer (and it DOES get hot in TX in the summertime), people keep their windows rolled up because of their A/C. In the winter they keep their windows rolled up for the heater. But as I said, if parents want to inflict their kids with the possibility of making their asthma worse or maybe 20 years down the road coming down with lung cancer, and maybe 50 years down the road coming down with emphysema or COPD (probably the worse ways to die), then that's their prerogative. It's different than with a bar or a restaurant where people can choose to patronize it or not; kids generally don't have a choice about where or in what their parents or guardians choose to haul them around in. But I think this law would really be stupid anyway because unlike in a public place like a bar or restaurant, a car is personal property.

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: New smoking ban

There will still be residual smoke particles left on the seats and the interior which could still be breathed in (that's why you can still smell smoke even if there's no one smoking at the time). In the summer (and it DOES get hot in TX in the summertime), people keep their windows rolled up because of their A/C. In the winter they keep their windows rolled up for the heater. But as I said, if parents want to inflict their kids with the possibility of making their asthma worse or maybe 20 years down the road coming down with lung cancer, and maybe 50 years down the road coming down with emphysema or COPD (probably the worse ways to die), then that's their prerogative. It's different than with a bar or a restaurant where people can choose to patronize it or not; kids generally don't have a choice about where or in what their parents or guardians choose to haul them around in. But I think this law would really be stupid anyway because unlike in a public place like a bar or restaurant, a car is personal property.

Miulang

What are the health risk associated with "residual smoke particles" on surfaces? Please cite the study.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

What are the health risk associated with "residual smoke particles" on surfaces? Please cite the study.
Start here.

Opening a window, smoking in another room, using air purifiers or ventilation systems offers no protection against second-hand smoke. After the cigarette is extinguished, the second-hand smoke remains in the environment. It settles on food, clothing, skin, carpets, curtains, in the air, etc., and remains there for days, and even weeks.

Most ventilation systems are designed to limit the accumulation of carbon monoxide and reduce the odour of smoke, without eliminating it however. Simply opening the car window will not eliminate cigarette smoke and can even create a back draft that draws the smoke back in and directly onto the passengers.

And here.
And here's a boring scientific study.

Miulang

P.S. In this morning's Advertiser "Bureaucracy Buster" column are some questions and answers about smoking at bus stops and in bars and restaurants in Hawai'i. The key to the new no smoking law is that the establishment is open to the public. So a private club which isn't open to the public should be exempt.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

So a private club which isn't open to the public should be exempt.

Nope. A private club is still a business, and therefore is subject to the law.

Supposedly, employees could call the state and complain.

I've called the state and asked about this specific situation.

This bogus law needs to be repealed. It's up to private business to decide whether or not to allow smoking in their establishments.

[jdub]

Re: New smoking ban

My neighborhood pub doesn't give two turds about the law. The smoking signs are up, but ashtrays are out. The old farts at the end of the bar light up with impunity, as do myself and a handful of old aloha shirts. The owners are furious over the law and are already working to have it amended if not repealed altogether.

Someone actually complained over the weekend. It was a Notre Dame fan, clearly unhinged over the fact that the Fighting Irish rolled over for USC. I think one of the owners was in there, probably chewing on a fine cohiba or other cheroot, and he invited the whiner to call the cops.

I'll continue to light up in the pub when I feel like it, but am not averse to taking it outside if it's obvious that the crowd is entirely non-smoking. This law sucks out loud.