New smoking ban

[SouthKona]

Re: New smoking ban

The "Aloha United Way" an organization that has done so much good for our community in the past has disgraced itself with the 211 smoking rat out line..

I disagree with you on most of your smoking points, but as you do, question why Aloha United Way is involved in taking complaints. It seems a very strange undertaking for them because they are known as a group to turn to for help, not a group to turn to for enforcment of laws.

They have admitted to me that they have been "contracted" [ bought out ] by the Hawaii Department of Health using taxpayer funds. .

I think that the DOH funds for tobacco issues comes from Tobacco Settlement money, not tax dollars. Smokers are footing the bill, not taxpayers.

[Brad White]

Re: Who smokes here?

Summary of Current Strong Smokefree State Laws (Link to map: http://www.no-smoke.org/pdf/100Map.pdf )

1. California: Restaurants and bars

2. Colorado: Restaurants and bars

3. Connecticut: Restaurants and bars

4. Delaware: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars

5. Florida: Workplaces, restaurants

6. Hawaii: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars

7. Idaho: Restaurants

8. Maine: Restaurants and bars

9. Massachusetts: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars

10. Montana: Workplaces, restaurants (bars 10/1/09)

11. Nevada: Workplaces, restaurants (12/8/06)

12. New York: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars

13. North Dakota: Workplaces

14. Ohio: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars (12/7/06)

15. Rhode Island: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars

16. South Dakota: Workplaces

17. Vermont: Restaurants and bars

18. Washington: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars

19. New Jersey: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars

20. Utah: Workplaces, restaurants (bars 1/1/2009)

-----

Additional laws passed, but not yet effective:

21. Arizona: Workplaces, restaurants, and bars (effective 5/1/07)

22. Washington, D.C.: Restaurants and bars (effective 1/1/07)

23. Louisiana: Workplaces and restaurants (effective 1/1/07)

24. Puerto Rico: Workplaces, restaurants, bars and casinos (effective 3/3/07)

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

This is anecdotal (i.e., seen with my own eyes): in my neighborhood, there are at least 5 bars/taverns within walking distance. Since the smoking ban was imposed in this state earlier this year for bars and restaurants, NONE have gone under.

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

This is anecdotal (i.e., seen with my own eyes): in my neighborhood, there are at least 5 bars/taverns within walking distance. Since the smoking ban was imposed in this state earlier this year for bars and restaurants, NONE have gone under.

Yup, very anecdotal... watching a couple of bars in Washington, and trying to compare it to all of Oahu.

The phrase, "take it with a grain of salt," most definitely applies here.

Oahu's smoking ban needs to be repealed.

[SouthKona]

Re: New smoking ban

It is going to take some solid, hard evidence to make the legislature go back and now weaken the law. Just being an "upset" group of smokers is not going to do it, because the law was not passed to "please" people but rather to "protect" people. Being displeased won't go very far - it's going to take proof that the supposed harm that the law does outweighs the good that it does.

What is the proof of "harm" caused by the law, that is what the legislature will need to see.

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

Just being an "upset" group of smokers is not going to do it, because the law was not passed to "please" people but rather to "protect" people.

I dunno, a bunch of "upset" drivers (speeders?) got those silly van-cams yanked off the highway. Those weren't there to "please" people either.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

I disagree with you on most of your smoking points, but as you do, question why Aloha United Way is involved in taking complaints. It seems a very strange undertaking for them because they are known as a group to turn to for help, not a group to turn to for enforcment of laws.


I think that the DOH funds for tobacco issues comes from Tobacco Settlement money, not tax dollars. Smokers are footing the bill, not taxpayers.

I spoke with the DOH and they said the money from the settlement goes to advertising, such as all the anti-smoking ads ( 9 figures this year alone ). The rest of their efforts IS supported by taxpayer funds. I'm not sure if a non-profit like the Aloha United Way is allowed to receive taxpayer funds through the GOVERNMENTS dept. of health. Is anyone a lawyer, this one seens fishy but I'm not sure of it. And for a politically based law enforcement issue?

Way did they pick ( or buy out ) the united way in the first place. Maybe they thought because of it's high standing in the community for helping people that it would be immune from attacks on what it is doing. That's pretty sick to trick / pay the united way into a situation where it hurts and debases people just because they like to smoke. I wonder how many employees and contributers to the united way are smokers? Are they treating those people right?

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

It is going to take some solid, hard evidence to make the legislature go back and now weaken the law. Just being an "upset" group of smokers is not going to do it, because the law was not passed to "please" people but rather to "protect" people. Being displeased won't go very far - it's going to take proof that the supposed harm that the law does outweighs the good that it does.

What is the proof of "harm" caused by the law, that is what the legislature will need to see.

The power of people's voices ( voters ) in the petition that is gaining momentum, peoples voices that were largely blocked by the antis and the media. Also businesses ARE hurting, how much can they take before they act. Word has also reached me that many of the legistlators that voted for the bill didn't really understand what they were signing and took the biased comments of the DOH and coalition for fact. Still it will be a tough fight.
Now the sad truth of this laws real impact is now starting to show. Loitering, littering, increased noise, assults, robberies, layed off barworkers, decreased bar revinue, alot of unhappy people, and some businesses threatened by closure.
Most non-smokers I talked to that liked it said that they liked the smell gone, not that they really thought their health was in danger, accept for a few nuts.

[SouthKona]

Re: New smoking ban

Now the sad truth of this laws real impact is now starting to show. Loitering, littering, increased noise, assults, robberies, layed off barworkers, decreased bar revinue, alot of unhappy people, and some businesses threatened by closure.

Proof please.

You know, it almost seems that you must be on the side of the "anti-smokers", because you sure don't do much good to the supposed "want to change the law" side when you say things like robberies are caused by the new smoking law. Maybe you are an "anti" who is just trying to make smokers seem like kooks.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Proof please.

You know, it almost seems that you must be on the side of the "anti-smokers", because you sure don't do much good to the supposed "want to change the law" side when you say things like robberies are caused by the new smoking law. Maybe you are an "anti" who is just trying to make smokers seem like kooks.

Really? Well at least the "troll" comments stopped, now I'm an "agent provocateur", or so you say. The robbery I'm talking about happened outside club C&R. An assult outside Bobby G's. Maybe it seems unnatural because this law creates unnatural situations.

[SouthKona]

Re: New smoking ban

Really? Well at least the "troll" comments stopped.

OK, you are right, I've been remiss. So how's this: you are a just a harmless Kooky Troll having some fun with us.

[Miulang]

Re: New smoking ban

The robbery I'm talking about happened outside club C&R. An assult outside Bobby G's. Maybe it seems unnatural because this law creates unnatural situations.

OK, so why are these assaults the direct result of the smoking ban? Because the "bad guys" couldn't get in the bars or because the "good guys" had to go outside to smoke???? And I assume that assault outside Bobby G's was the one where the President's staffperson got mugged? Couldn't that one be attributed to his being "haole" and the club being in downtown Waikiki?

Miulang

[Palolo Joe]

Re: New smoking ban

Couldn't that one be attributed to his being "haole" and the club being in downtown Waikiki?

There are no quotation marks around haole. The guy was a haole.

And where's downtown Waikiki? Waikiki is Waikiki. No downtown, uptown or whatever.

And Bobby G's is a bar.

If you're gonna act like you know everything, at least get your facts straight.

[dick]

Re: New smoking ban

Couldn't that one be attributed to his being "haole" and the club being in downtown Waikiki?

Miulang

So a (ahem) "haole" person should expect attacks when in Waikiki? That's a pretty strange presumption.

[hawaiifiveoh]

Re: New smoking ban

Hawaii...always one step behind California.