New smoking ban

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

My, my, this site has been quiet?? Rumor has it that DOH has Liquor Commission data. From what I heard, third hand of course, the liquor industry is doing better than ever. Even some the bar owneres that lied to legislators that they were going under, made lots of money. Seem that the anti-tobacco group was right after all. Passing the law would have no negative impact on bars. Think its time to send this whole thing to "Myth Busters".

Read the above data from the liquor commission. BTW, standard 2 am's are down 8% also in inflation adjusted dollars and only counting the ban months - after years of very steady 4-5% per year growth. It would be worse, if it wasn't for the fact that a number of 2 am still allow smoking.

Watch the DOH try to cover this data up.

[douglas]

Re: New smoking ban

I guess yesterday's headline in the Advertiser's business section says it all;

Smoke-free law not bad for business, experts say

"State officials, health experts and a Mainland consultant told members of the House and Senate health committees that there has been no negative economic impact since the state's smoke-free law was enacted in November 2006."

A friend who was at the hearing said, that legislator's had liquor commission data show that bar revenues are UP! Seems too, that some guy from the Hawaii Smokers Alliance (apparently he is well known at the capitol) made a fool of himself by talking about "Viagra". Go figure.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

I guess yesterday's headline in the Advertiser's business section says it all;

Smoke-free law not bad for business, experts say

"State officials, health experts and a Mainland consultant told members of the House and Senate health committees that there has been no negative economic impact since the state's smoke-free law was enacted in November 2006."

A friend who was at the hearing said, that legislator's had liquor commission data show that bar revenues are UP! Seems too, that some guy from the Hawaii Smokers Alliance (apparently he is well known at the capitol) made a fool of himself by talking about "Viagra". Go figure.

Nice try. What a shamelessly bogus headline.
"State officials, health experts and a Mainland consultant" which is
Tobacco Free's LOBBYING partner the DOH / TPEP = "state officials"
Anti-smoking paid lobbyists = "health experts"
Flaming anti-smoker Hyland from Roswell Park Cancer Center = "Consultant"

The numbers are down, and the anti-smoking lobby is hiding them because they are ashamed of them. They said bars only went down by six verbally, too bad the real numbers are already out and that's a lie ( look above ). Where's our number's Hyland, that's what the state payed you to do punk, not talk about New York! The taxpayers just got took by the DOH. It wasn't cheap to pay him to do a form type unless report and fly him out here.

Told yah they would cover it up or lie about it and I was right on both counts.

Maybe it's time for Lipsher and Fukino to clean up their act or RESIGN!!! They already got caught red handed lying to the business community in writing on their warning letter and were forced by the AG to fix it when they got found out by the smoker's alliance.

What is more is that Japanese tourism numbers have now hit a 20 year low despite Japanese overall travel up 5% to other smoker friendly destinations. It ain't because of so two-bit fuel surcharge, get real.

[douglas]

Re: New smoking ban

Are we living in the same universe AlohaKine?? "They said bars only went down by six verbally, too bad the real numbers are already out and that's a lie"

I wonder if you remember reading the July 20, 2007 Star-Bulletin.

Isle liquor licenses stay steady this yearLiquor establishment numbers stay the same as the 5 years before the state smoking ban
STORY SUMMARY »
Honolulu's watering holes are about as numerous has they have been in the last five years, according to city records -- despite a smoking ban that many bar owners say is making it hard to make ends meet.

To date, the Honolulu Liquor Commission has issued some 1,353 licenses this year, with another 40 or so pending. The number has remained at about 1,400 since 2002.

By the number of licenses issued, it seems that liquor-based businesses are staying afloat, with new businesses balancing out those that have closed.

Oahu Liquor License Count
year* -- Licenses
2007-08 -- 1,393**
2006-07 -- 1,384
2005-06 -- 1,393
2004-05 -- 1,385
2003-04 -- 1,382
2002-03 -- 1,417
* Fiscal year running from July 1 through June 30
**Estimate: Includes 40 applicants awaiting tax and other regulatory clearances
BY CATEGORY***
2007-08
Dispenser licenses: 301Cabaret: 39
2006-07
Dispenser licenses: 307
Cabaret: 40

I'm assuming 307 minus 301 EQUALS 6

One should never tell lie, you might get caught.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

Are we living in the same universe AlohaKine?? "They said bars only went down by six verbally, too bad the real numbers are already out and that's a lie"

I wonder if you remember reading the July 20, 2007 Star-Bulletin.

Isle liquor licenses stay steady this yearLiquor establishment numbers stay the same as the 5 years before the state smoking ban
STORY SUMMARY »
Honolulu's watering holes are about as numerous has they have been in the last five years, according to city records -- despite a smoking ban that many bar owners say is making it hard to make ends meet.

To date, the Honolulu Liquor Commission has issued some 1,353 licenses this year, with another 40 or so pending. The number has remained at about 1,400 since 2002.

By the number of licenses issued, it seems that liquor-based businesses are staying afloat, with new businesses balancing out those that have closed.

Oahu Liquor License Count
year* -- Licenses
2007-08 -- 1,393**
2006-07 -- 1,384
2005-06 -- 1,393
2004-05 -- 1,385
2003-04 -- 1,382
2002-03 -- 1,417
* Fiscal year running from July 1 through June 30
**Estimate: Includes 40 applicants awaiting tax and other regulatory clearances
BY CATEGORY***
2007-08
Dispenser licenses: 301Cabaret: 39
2006-07
Dispenser licenses: 307
Cabaret: 40

I'm assuming 307 minus 301 EQUALS 6

One should never tell lie, you might get caught.

One should get the finalized FACTS before one attacks someone.

"with another 40 or so pending." the article said last summer, however the data was not FINALIZED until October. If you actually understand the industry you would know that many of these "pending" bars had given up months before and just let their licenses run out. The fact is that dispensers suffered a net loss of 16 bars from 310 to 294 and cabarets from 39 to 35 plus at least one more I know of in August.

The numbers would be far worse, save for the fact that alot of the worst hit dispensers are still letting people smoke. Also a number of bars are living on borrowed money, hoping in time that the ban will get fixed.

As for the 1393 number, a lot of them are wholesale, liquor stores, and restaurants and were not effected and have no place being included.

I have the cold, hard, finalized numbers - straight from the liquor commission in finalized form and you have premature guesswork from the newspaper.

Also, newspapers often carry a bias, and our two main newspaper's management admitted they are biased in favor of the antis.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

"20-year low in Japanese visitors seen"

Here's another one for you Douglas from the star Bulletin. It's because of some petty fuel surcharge my foot. Not enough hotel rooms, yah right, hotel visitor rates are down - that means more open rooms - not less.

It was already a weak market and the ban accelerated it into the abyss. 40% of Japanese guys smoke, why would they want to spend all that money to get rained on in the parking lot?

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

This is sick!!!!

Five members of the Hawaii state senate are now poised to cross into no-mans land. Banning smoking in people's own homes!! - even if it isn't bothering anybody. In other words Zysman at Tobacco Free Hawaii can't sleep at night knowing that there are couples that are enjoying a smoke in their own bedroom before they go to sleep at night. She can't stand it.

This bill is for public housing, next on the firing line is YOUR condo. Just ask the folks of Belmont, CA. It's already happened.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/...?billno=SB2408

I plan to go down to the capital in person for this, feel free to private message me - you can make a real difference. It's time to put this bigotry to an end.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

This is sick!!!!

Five members of the Hawaii state senate are now poised to cross into no-mans land. Banning smoking in people's own homes!! - even if it isn't bothering anybody. In other words Zysman at Tobacco Free Hawaii can't sleep at night knowing that there are couples that are enjoying a smoke in their own bedroom before they go to sleep at night. She can't stand it.

This bill is for public housing, next on the firing line is YOUR condo. Just ask the folks of Belmont, CA. It's already happened.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/...?billno=SB2408

I plan to go down to the capital in person for this, feel free to private message me - you can make a real difference. It's time to put this bigotry to an end.

Well I guess if it's public housing, it's not really your house so I can see the value in that. I mean a landlord can specify that tenants must be non-smokers without breaking any constitutional law.

In this case, the landlord is the State of Hawaii and I guess the laws apply to government owned buildings.

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

I don't think it is necessarily unconstitutional however it is mean spirited and immoral. Just like the government could ban surfing at the beach or ban or TV's in public housing. Just because something may not be unconstitutional doesn't mean it is fair or reasonable.

To ban it in someone's own home when it isn't even bothering anybody is just plain hateful. Keep in mind that folks that live in public housing often lack ANY other alternative.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: New smoking ban

To ban it in someone's own home when it isn't even bothering anybody is just plain hateful.

That's the problem. It's not "their own home". It's the states'. The problem is all the nicotine deposited on the surfaces of the home when there's a heavy long-time smoker living there. It creates an additional landlord expense.
I've seen it first hand. It's not like a quick scrub of soap will take it off.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

That's the problem. It's not "their own home". It's the states'. The problem is all the nicotine deposited on the surfaces of the home when there's a heavy long-time smoker living there. It creates an additional landlord expense.
I've seen it first hand. It's not like a quick scrub of soap will take it off.

Growing up I could always tell when I'm in a bowling alley. Later on I realized the grey ceilings weren't a design element, it was from smoke and so was that scent. And to think it was the shoes!

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

That's the problem. It's not "their own home". It's the states'. The problem is all the nicotine deposited on the surfaces of the home when there's a heavy long-time smoker living there. It creates an additional landlord expense.
I've seen it first hand. It's not like a quick scrub of soap will take it off.

So what about the pet damage, red kool-aid stains on the carpet, or any other wear and tear caused by everyday life. They have to paint the walls and clean the carpet. This is typical however when a home is turned over anyways, smoking or non-smoking. If the tenants have to pay a few hundred bucks in "restoration" for decades of living there is that a big deal? I had to pay $300 when I left the place I used to rent because of it. I paided my "smokers fee" so it was even. If your pet cat claws up all the woodwork, you may have to pay for that too.

As I said, condos are next. I own my condo, but they won't care. It's time to stop the hate machine in its' tracks.

[1stwahine]

Re: New smoking ban

That's the problem. It's not "their own home". It's the states'.

I make five months this Friday Non-Smoking!
I live in Public Housing.

Yes, I rent and abide by the rules and regulations of Hawaii State Housing.
I also lobby for changes to protect my fellow residents and myself. In fact, the Committee headed by Senator Suzanne Chun Oakland meets quarterly. I have attended both meetings so far and will continue to do so.

The TRUTH ~ Nothing has changed!!!

WTF??? They can't make Public Housing secure for residents, MWH is in disarray, Kuhio Park Terrace - Elevator Problems, Empty Units vacant for months on end, etc. etc. and they want to prohibit smoking on Public Housing?

Too funny.

How dey going enforce dat?

Wat next? Dey going tell when I can KAKA?heheheh

I shall go to the State Capital today and give my 2cents.

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

BTW: My unit has no nicotine stains on the wall or floors so das a bull craps excuse!

[AlohaKine]

Re: New smoking ban

I make five months this Friday Non-Smoking!
I live in Public Housing.

Yes, I rent and abide by the rules and regulations of Hawaii State Housing.
I also lobby for changes to protect my fellow residents and myself. In fact, the Committee headed by Senator Suzanne Chun Oakland meets quarterly. I have attended both meetings so far and will continue to do so.

The TRUTH ~ Nothing has changed!!!

WTF??? They can't make Public Housing secure for residents, MWH is in disarray, Kuhio Park Terrace - Elevator Problems, Empty Units vacant for months on end, etc. etc. and they want to prohibit smoking on Public Housing?

Too funny.

How dey going enforce dat?

Wat next? Dey going tell when I can KAKA?heheheh

I shall go to the State Capital today and give my 2cents.

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

BTW: My unit has no nicotine stains on the wall or floors so das a bull craps excuse!

How correct you are Auntie Lynn. Chun Oakland = no respect for people's own homes.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: New smoking ban

Eh lucky you no live on da Big Island as the county is looking at banning smoking at public beaches and parks here.