Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

[helen]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

So, what do you (the collective "you," not anyone specific) think will happen next to the protesters, as you know the protests will continue. Do you think there will likely be a dramatic increase in pressure on the authorities to (a) keep them at bay, (b) make more arrests, and/or (c) hit them with harsher penalties?

That depends on what the protesters are going to do. If they want to hold up signs, take up newspaper space for their message, or even placing a banner at the Nawiliwili breakwater, I don't have an issue with it. As long as they don't impede the ferry or it's passengers.

[escondido100]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

i just linked over to ian linds blog and according to his opinion he feels that the democratic side of the legislature passed this bill knowing that major portions of it will not stand up to legal scruitiny once it gets back to the courts via maui tommorrow, sierra club and the kauai coalition of protesters. in other words they were paying political lip service to their constituents and are going to be blameless once the next round of legal battles ensue. he was advising the folks in kauai to take this into account and not to needlessly endanger themselves while protesting come nov 15th when the ferry sails again. further more he blamed the mainland republican power structure for empowering the gov and her allies and that the real power still lies with the democratic entrenched here in hawaii and that they will prevail as they always have.......interesting twist on things.
there seems to be some interesting times ahead in the next few weeks if what he says has any merit.

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

No, you're wrong, Keanu. Remember that Gov. Lingle kept repeating over and over "we're not saving one business; we're providing another transportation option for the people of Hawai'i". It would be hugely ironic if another ferry line decided to try to set up shop and use the same tactics that HSF did to compete against it (right now, we will have a ferry monopoly). Then would HSF cry foul? The bill, after all, doesn't name HSF; all it says is high speed ferry service.

Miulang

Sorry Miulang but Governor Lingle convened a Special Session for the primary purpose of circumventing a statute to save the Superferry. This was all about saving "one business" and with it, the state's credibility. Had the law been followed in the first place, none of this would have been an issue.

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

i just linked over to ian linds blog and according to his opinion he feels that the democratic side of the legislature passed this bill knowing that major portions of it will not stand up to legal scruitiny once it gets back to the courts via maui tommorrow, sierra club and the kauai coalition of protesters. in other words they were paying political lip service to their constituents and are going to be blameless once the next round of legal battles ensue. he was advising the folks in kauai to take this into account and not to needlessly endanger themselves while protesting come nov 15th when the ferry sails again. further more he blamed the mainland republican power structure for empowering the gov and her allies and that the real power still lies with the democratic entrenched here in hawaii and that they will prevail as they always have.......interesting twist on things.
there seems to be some interesting times ahead in the next few weeks if what he says has any merit.

Lind is very astute.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Lind is very astute.

I admire Ian. I think he's pegged the Legislature accurately as being passive-aggressive. One part of the bill that's been passed says that the Legislature has the right when the Legislative session begins in Jan. to review HSF's operations and make changes to the conditions. Not that I think they have the guts to change anything, but I think it gives some of the legislators---the ones who voted "with reservation"-- this false sense of hope that maybe if something goes wrong (like if a whale gets bumped off) that they can come in like the Lone Ranger at that time to save the day. But I think the only way to stop HSF would be for it to fold up on its own once it starts up again.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

H-3 . Another tale. This one forced through by Plantation Democrats ignoring environmental law. From www.hawaiihistory.org

H-3, Hawaii's third highway to be part of the federal interstate system, opened to the first drivers after years of construction delays. Road building was halted and delayed over the years by archeological finds, route changes, legal challenges, and the practical challenges of boring twin tunnels between Ha'iku and Halawa valleys. Hawaii's Senator Inouye removed the last obstacles by winning the project legal exemption from all federal environmental laws. Once complete, the 15-mile road was the most expensive in U.S. history, costing $100 million per mile.

[zztype]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Sorry Miulang but Governor Lingle convened a Special Session for the primary purpose of circumventing a statute to save the Superferry. This was all about saving "one business" and with it, the state's credibility. Had the law been followed in the first place, none of this would have been an issue.

Sheesh. The Legislature "circumvented" the statute THAT THEY WROTE! They have every right to reconvene to fix legislation that they feel was passed with flaws.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

They have every right to reconvene to fix legislation that they feel was passed with flaws.

That sort of action is generally limited to corrections that they can make during regularly-scheduled sessions, however. (And you won't ever get politicians to admit that they "passed (it) with flaws.") It costs you, the taxpayers of the State, extra when legislators are called into special session such as this. (Mel - you ought to be up in arms about that aspect of this action, even if you agree that it was necessary. )

[MixedPlateBroker]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

All the misguided protesting and political posturing over small potatoes. You'd think someone had repealed our right of habeas corpus. Oh wait, someone did.

I'm sure any criminal protesters will echo my thoughts if they happen to get picked up by the authorities and detained for a year without charges. Find a bigger tree, doggies.

[zztype]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

That sort of action is generally limited to corrections that they can make during regularly-scheduled sessions, however. (And you won't ever get politicians to admit that they "passed (it) with flaws.") It costs you, the taxpayers of the State, extra when legislators are called into special session such as this. (Mel - you ought to be up in arms about that aspect of this action, even if you agree that it was necessary. )

So? I was only commenting on others' perception that the Legislature didn't have a right to reconvene. I didn't comment at all on the costs, monetary or political, of such a move.

But the members of the Legislature are the ones that drafted the stupid law in the first place. How could ANYONE think they didn't have a right to change the damned thing if they felt like it?

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

That sort of action is generally limited to corrections that they can make during regularly-scheduled sessions, however. (And you won't ever get politicians to admit that they "passed (it) with flaws.") It costs you, the taxpayers of the State, extra when legislators are called into special session such as this. (Mel - you ought to be up in arms about that aspect of this action, even if you agree that it was necessary. )

According to the House Majority blog, it cost the State about $20k just to have the House in session. I think the Senate probably cost a little less. So it probably cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $30k-40k to hold the special session. Pretty cheap, but when you consider that this bill could have been handled in the regular session if Uncle Joe hadn't killed the House bill in committee during the regular session, it's still $30-40k that could have been used somewhere else. That doesn't include the pricetag on the legal counsel required by the State for the Kauai and Maui legal proceedings.

Miulang

[Keanu]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Sheesh. The Legislature "circumvented" the statute THAT THEY WROTE! They have every right to reconvene to fix legislation that they feel was passed with flaws.

Do you know when section 343 of the Hawaii Revised Statues was written?

Make no mistake about it, the Legislature did not want to take up this issue. This Special Session has nothing to do with fixing legislative "flaws". Would the Legislature have covened a Special Session on their own to save the Superferry?

[AlohaKine]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Funny how the legislature would do all this for the superferry. It couldn't wait a year for the impact study. Funny how the bars could wait for the smoking ban "impact study", now at least 16 are out of business because of it. Equal protection?

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Interesting to see the usual anti-HSF whiners here crying like babies because they didn't get what they wanted. Clearly we can expect continued whining from them.
The real bottom line is this -- the majority of the state's residents got exactly what they wanted.
Please allow me to repeat that.
The real bottom line is this -- the majority of the state's residents got exactly what they wanted.
It's done. Get over it. Quit acting like spoiled little brats. The whining is falling on deaf ears.
I'd recommend giving this thread one more day for folks to post their reactions, then I'd like to see this thread closed and locked. Everyone needs to go on a two-week SuperFerry Time Out, and I'd suggest starting a new thread in two weeks when the SuperFerry starts running.
Exactly as the clear majority of Hawaii residents desire.

[helen]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Funny how the legislature would do all this for the superferry. It couldn't wait a year for the impact study. Funny how the bars could wait for the smoking ban "impact study", now at least 16 are out of business because of it. Equal protection?

Is the real problem passing a law that allows the SuperFerry to operate while the impact study is being prepared or is the real problem convening a special session to pass this law?

Granted it's almost November now. Legislature starts it's regular session in middle of Janurary. That's about 2-1/2 months from now. And could the legislature pass this bill really, really fast and get it signed into law? Even then some laws have a starting date to them, so it could go into March so that would be what like 6 months. Could the SuperFerry wait that long?

If I was the governor I would suggest to the SuperFerry folks to run the ferry for a couple of weeks on a limited basis, like going to one island a day just to work out the bugs in the operation and let it slowly catch on, don't even offer low fares.