Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

[tutusue]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

hi this is sansei[...]so i thought to share my thought's on this.

well thank's for your time:O(

I have absolutely no idea what that one, rambling sentence meant to imply. Holey moley.

[cynsaligia]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

the idea that any move to impeach uncle lingo could be successful is total pie in the sky and in your eye fodder. i doubt her current ratings, superferry or not, have ever been as low as geedub's have gotten, and the impeach bush movement has been going on for years.

[AlohaKine]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Size is irrelevant. (Well, in this case, anyway. ) As JT points out, even at the larger size the SuperFerry is far more nimble and maneuverable than SeaFlite was 30+ years ago.
You conveniently and completely avoided mentioning speed, which is the single biggest complaint of the anti's, you conveniently ignored that SeaFlite was faster than SuperFerry, and you also ignored that SeaFlite made far more trips per day.
Ergo, SeaFlite was faster and less nimble. As I wrote, "SeaFlite had higher speeds, triple the number of daily trips, zero whale strikes in over four years."
Facts are, you know, FACTS.

Let's also remember our naval warships also, a goodly number of them can go beyond 30 knots and they don't come back with whale parts pasted to there bows. Whales are not stupid. The ships get dinged however from the use of high energy active sonar which can really hurt whales at times so its use is restricted.

As far as the NFS report, does that include cases where the whale was the aggressor.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

the idea that any move to impeach uncle lingo could be successful is total pie in the sky and in your eye fodder. i doubt her current ratings, superferry or not, have ever been as low as geedub's have gotten, and the impeach bush movement has been going on for years.

"Uncle"?

Okay back to Seaflite and the lack of activism back then...back then Green Peace was still fledgling and trying to recruit young people to join their cause.

I know because my Social Studies teacher at Kalani High School back in 1977 told us that he would give any student of his an "A" for the year if they signed up with GP. Some did and they got the "A". I did too just for the grade and went along for the ride because no matter how hard you really tried for a good grade in his class, unless you Kissed Butt really good you wouldn't get the "A". And I don't like the taste of butt including his tree hugging fat ass, but I did know how to play his game.

So how is whale counting done? Back in the 70's it was: You sit at a good vantage point staring out along the Diamond Head and started counting, "one, two, three...oh there's another one...no no that was a wave, okay, five, or was that four"

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Isn't it funny how the environmental fascists will use the sensitivity of whales SONAR based hearing system as reasons to stop things like some sonar thingamajiggy that the Military was trying to do a few years back. They like to describe the incredible abilities to "hear" using their "sonar" to find their way as they crisscross their way across the entire Pacific Ocean.

But now the whales are so dumb and deaf that they can't get out of the way of what must sound like a 747 jet coming through the water.

I say if a whale is dumb enough not to be able to get out of the way of a massive noise making Superferry, then it deserves to be eliminated from the gene pool. The Superferry should just pick up the carcass, sashimi it, and send it to Japan so the Japanese don't have to intentionally kill another whale. It could be an ongoing omiyage from Honolulu to our sister city of Hiroshima?

FROM WIKIPEDIA In 2002, Japanese whalers took five Sperm, 39 Sei, 50 Bryde's and 150 Minke Whales in the northern catch area and 440 Minke whales in the southern catch area. The catch was carried out under the IWC's special license for whaling research. In 2005 Japan announced that they would significantly expand their whaling. With the adoption of this plan, Japan’s take will include 100 Sei Whales, 10 Sperm Whales, 50 Humpback Whales, 50 Fin Whales, and 50 Bryde’s Whales, some of which are considered endangered, along with 850 (+/- 10%) Minke Whales which are classified as near threatened .

See? Kamuela always thinking solutions.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Airfare is rising across the board because of rising fuel costs. Anyone know what is usually cheaper per gallon, diesel fuel or jet fuel? Another reason it's really in the best interest of the state to have this alternative.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/11/03/news/story02.html

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

you know it's interesting that in the last known whale encounter incident, it was that boat that was intentionally watching for whales that hit them. And they weren't even going fast. I would think then that speed has little to do with whale encounters as much as being out ther during whale season.

We do know when whale season is and we kinda do know when they're around so I would think that a high speed ferry can be viable.

It seems those protesting is focusing now on the speed of the HSF and not so much on the environmental impact as previously argued. The arguements and demands presented put those against the HSF in a corner now as those very demands on HSF will have to be applied to every type of transportation and passengers travelling to each island including personal and commercial boats and aircraft.

Every passenger and cargo whether you fly or ship will have to undergo the same scrutiny of inspection. Can you imagine how long it would take to transport your vehicle from YB's docks to each island? Can you imagine the lines at the airports?

And finally can you imagine the outrage from our boating community that regularly span the ocean to get to each island when for every day they launch out of their skip they have to undergo an extensive search of their property before they can leave the harbor?

Those same stipulations that are being imposed on HSF will be applied to every ocean crossing vehicle whether it floats, flies or drives. As the adage goes: If it's good for the Goose...

So now the focus is on the speed of the craft. Like I said if HSF's salvation comes thru that all important environmental document, those against the HSF will find another arguement to stop it.

The arguement of too many tourists simply doesn't hold water to me. The assumption that the HSF will hold only tourists and their cars is absurd. Local businesses and kamaaina themselves indicated they would use the craft as well.

Now NCL on the other hand does ship MOSTLY tourists by the thousands EVERY TIME THEY DOCK. I guess the environmental impact study that passed for them (NCL) allowed for local infrastructure to absorb each arrival, so it would be safe to assume a vessel carrying ten times less would also be okay. Ahh but the difference is what else HSF is unloading...CARS. Which brings me back to my original reason why there is that much opposition to HSF on the neighbor islands.

That many cars coming off the HSF and spilling onto the roadways leading out of Nawilili, Kahului and Kawaihae boat harbors WILL lead to a significant increase in local traffic there. Those harbors are facilitated by roads that are already too small for in/outbound vehicular traffic already.

That to me is the real and valid reason why HSF needs an EIS or an EA. The difference between NCL and HSF is the sheer fact that most of the passengers on NCL will be bussed out while HSF passengers will take their own cars. Two busses holding a hundred passengers is less impacting than 20 cars holding the same amount.

So my thinking is that the focus should be on the environmental impact that many cars coming off the HSF will have on the local environment...not the speed of the HSF in relation to whales.

That to me is more valid of a reason to protest. The way it's being done now is not helping their cause. You don't try to convince the majority by going to war against them. Those protesting had years to convince those in favor of HSF to consider their position. It's not as if HSF was rammed down their throats, they saw it coming and did nothing, like the whales they presume will also do when HSF comes sailing thru at 30-knots.

My feelings is that HSF had given the vocal opposition more than enough time to wage a campaign against them. That's fair. You tell the public what you want to do and when and open up for comment. No comment? Okay let's invest, design and build for that date.

Now that date is upon us and...WHOA!!!! Suddenly a few are concerned now. Hey you had your chance to protest. You had your chance to stop the HSF while it was a mere suggestion. You stop it now after a reasonable length of time was granted and passed only can result in monetary damages to HSF.

Yes protesters, you name yourselves and now you will be a defendant in a lawsuit against you. YOU HAD THE TIME TO PROTEST AND YOU DIDN'T. It would be safe to assume then that HSF had your support and decided to spend millions of dollars to begin their venture and NOW YOU WANT TO CRY WOLF?

I'm sorry BUT as much as I'm for the environment and endangered species your actions came too late. In my book that's sloppy and lazy activism. You had the chance to do your homework and you waited to Sunday evening to try to complete your science project due Monday and now your work of art is simply an "F" for failure.

If this were a business and my CEO failed that way he'd be out of a job. Sierra Club? You had better start looking for someone else that won't get caught sleeping at the wheel.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Isn't it funny how the environmental fascists will use the sensitivity of whales SONAR based hearing system as reasons to stop things like some sonar thingamajiggy that the Military was trying to do a few years back. They like to describe the incredible abilities to "hear" using their "sonar" to find their way as they crisscross their way across the entire Pacific Ocean.

But now the whales are so dumb and deaf that they can't get out of the way of what must sound like a 747 jet coming through the water.

I say if a whale is dumb enough not to be able to get out of the way of a massive noise making Superferry, then it deserves to be eliminated from the gene pool. The Superferry should just pick up the carcass, sashimi it, and send it to Japan so the Japanese don't have to intentionally kill another whale. It could be an ongoing omiyage from Honolulu to our sister city of Hiroshima?



See? Kamuela always thinking solutions.

Here's another solution for those "deaf and blind whales": train some "seeing eye" spinner dolphins (also endangered) to guide them! The adult humpbacks might be used to loud noises and would know to avoid them, but I don't know that the calfs would know, and they are the ones who have to be near the surface all the time and certainly can't swim as fast as the adults.

As far as what the Navy can and cannot do, I think it's been established that they are above the law much of the time. If you read the testimony from a guy who used to work on those nuclear submarines in Pearl Harbor, the Navy has been doing all kinds of damage to the waters around the islands for years, but no one has complained.

The only reason why speed of HSF should be a consideration is because there are now more whales packed into the same area than say even 5 years ago (according to NOAA, the growth rate of the population is estimated to be about 7% annually, and the whale count only evaluates the number of adult whales, not the total whale population when estimating how endangered they are). If there are 3,000 adult whales in 100 sq. miles, there is less chance to hit a whale than if there are 10,000 whales in the same 100 sq. miles. That's just the way the odds are stacked.

One of the reasons why it's so hard to know how many whales are actually killed by boats is that when the whales are run over by the larger boats, sometimes the people aboard the boats don't even know it's happened. And if the whale isn't "harpooned" by part of the ship, the carcass will just float away and might never be found. The only way incidents are reported is that someone on board the ship witnesses the event and becomes so unnerved by it that they report the incident to the authorities. Maybe that's why HSF didn't want to apply for the incidental take permit in the first place---they were willing to gamble that if they did run over a whale that the evidence wouldn't be found so they wouldn't get in trouble with NOAA. The license itself doesn't cost very much money, but HSF would have to file a management plan with NOAA, for which their whale avoidance policy could have been a good start.

YB, Matson and the cruise lines will also have to be under the same set of rules that HSF is under with regard to invasive species, but the State has to ante up to hire more DLNR and DoA agents so that enforcement can be made uniform and mandatory. The passengers on one of the cruise ships sailing to Lahaina last Monday were held up for about 4 hours because there weren't enough DLNR agents available to inspect the passengers as they came ashore, so 4 agents had to be flown from Hilo to help, but the agents had to be familiarized with Lahaina harbor in the morning so the passengers couldn't disembark. They apparently couldn't dock in Hilo when they were supposed to (something about rough seas and high winds in the Hilo area) so they detoured to Maui instead ahead of schedule. So apparently DLNR is inspecting the incoming cruise passengers for something (I don't know what, though).

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Again, simple solution, with all the money spent in legal fees on both sides, we probably could have already done it. Create a sea lane with passive sonar buoys. Then it doesn't matter how fast a ship can go.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

what chapter of this epic saga is this, anyway? Will Judge Cardoza lift the Maui injunction before the Gov. releases her list of HSF operating conditions?

Attorneys for the state plan to ask a Maui judge Monday to lift his order barring the Hawaii Superferry from operating, which would clear the way for the interisland service to start later this month.

Gov. Linda Lingle said she is working this weekend to create conditions under which the Superferry can sail, and she may sign the bill designed to put it back at sea by Monday.

...“I would assume that the judge would probably lift the injunction,’’ said Senate President Colleen Hanabusa, an attorney. “At the same time, I would also assume that plaintiffs’ attorneys are going to challenge the constitutionality of the bill.’’

Environmentalists who sued to block the ferry service will fight to keep Cardoza’s order in place if they decide Lingle’s operating conditions aren’t strong enough, said Ron Sturtz, president emeritus of Maui Tomorrow, one of the groups that filed the lawsuit.

“She has an opportunity to make some meaningful mitigation here,’’ Sturtz said. “If she does that, then we will have to carefully look at what those are and see if we’re going to live with them or not.’’

The bill requires Lingle to impose restrictions in nine possible areas including marine life, water quality, traffic, public safety, invasive species, cultural resources and the economy.

It also requests whale observers, requires vehicle inspections, provides oversight of the governor’s actions, prohibits the company from suing the state and opens an investigation into why the $300 million Superferry operation was granted an exception to Hawaii’s environmental laws in the first place.

...Lingle said she hopes Cardoza will free the Superferry based on the new law, not the one it’s intended to override.

“The point is, to the judge, your injunction was placed because you believe that the law said this,’’ Lingle said. “Now the law has been changed, and on the basis of this law . . . we will ask him to lift the injunction.’’

Miulang

[sansei]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

hi this is sansei and i wish to share my Thought's on this that judge cardoza shouldnt lift the injunction is when he made this injunction,everyone should respect it and not have our someday to be impeached Governor ask him to lift it since there would be unpleasentness in maui and kauai so i thought to share my thought's on this.

Well thank's for your time:O(

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Lingle has signed the bill, according to this item on the Advertiser's website:

Gov. Linda Lingle has signed a bill allowing Hawaii Superferry to resume service while the state conducts an environmental impact statement.
Lingle also released a set of 40 operating conditions on Superferry aimed at protecting the environment.
Also, the state and Hawai'i Superferry will file a motion before Circuit Court Judge Joseph Cardoza today asking him to immediately lift his injunction and allow Superferry to operate out of Kahului Harbor.
(...)
iBased on the input she received from various environmental and other groups, Lingle established conditions on Superferry designed to reduce the risk of the ferry striking a whale or other marine mammal, minimize the transport of invasive species between the islands, preserve ocean and coastal water quality, protect cultural resources, lower the impact of cars on local traffic, and ensure public safety and security.
(...)
Various environmental groups, including the Sierra Club, Maui Tomorrow and The Nature Conservancy, suggested to the Governor that the state conduct a rapid risk assessment during the first months of the ferry's operation "and I have already directed the Department of Transportation to commission such a study," Lingle said.

Specific conditions Hawai'i Superferry will be required to follow include:

i Post two persons to act as whale lookouts and request that National Marine Fisheries Service certified fisheries observers, currently residing in Hawai'i, such as graduates and members of Alu Like's Marine Stewardship Program, be on board Hawai'i Superferry's ships to monitor marine life and warn the ship's crew in time to prevent potential collisions.

i Avoid operating within the Hawaiian Islands Humpback Whale National Marine Sanctuary or in waters less than 100 fathoms from Jan. 1 to April 30, except in instances that are in the interest of the safety or comfort of passengers.

i Conduct agricultural screenings and inspections of passengers and all vehicles, including visual inspections of engines, interiors, undercarriages, wheel wells, trunks, and beds of pickup trucks. Vehicles that are excessively muddy or that have prohibited items will be turned away, or the prohibited items taken away.

i Notify passengers in advance that all vehicles, camping, hiking, hunting, diving, snorkeling, fishing and boating equipment should be thoroughly washed and free of debris.

i Ban living plants and propagative plant parts that are not accompanied by a Hawai'i Department of Agriculture Certificate of Inspection.

i Require passengers to declare all plants, fruits and seeds, and permit inspections of such items by the Department of Agriculture.

i Consider establishing a special transport rate for agricultural products.

i Prohibit the transport of logs, cut trees, and tree limbs.

i Ban the transport of rocks, soil, sand, dirt, or dead coral, except for soil or dirt in potted plants inspected and cleared for transport by the Department of Agriculture.

i Ban the transport of opihi, lobster, or other crustaceans, and fishing nets of all kinds.

i Prohibit the transport of iwi or human bones.

i Provide passengers with information concerning restrictions on the use of cultural and natural resources, including hunting and fishing rules and camping permit requirements.

i Consider adding a cultural briefing on Hawai'i's cultural and natural resources as part of its onboard education program.

i Comply with all state water pollution laws, rules and regulations, and refrain from discharging wastewater into the ocean.

i Conduct complete traffic studies and implement a vehicle movement and management plan for each port of operation as directed by the Department of Transportation. The traffic studies will be used to adjust vessel arrival and departure schedules as necessary to lessen the impact of arriving cars on local traffic.

i Employ trained staff to manage traffic entering and exiting each port terminal facility and post security guards or off-duty police officers to direct traffic and control signals to minimize traffic problems.

i Cooperate with any risk assessment conducted by or authorized by the Department of Transportation and the Department of Agriculture.

[Composite 2992]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

"Ban the transport of opihi, lobster, or other crustaceans, and fishing nets of all kinds."

So it's ok to bring home a bunch of lobsters and opihi via the airlines?

[helen]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Don't you have to transport lobster live? I suppose one could do this on a plane but the hassle will be to make sure the container doesn't spill any water during the flight, airline is bound to charge a lot of money for it. Makes the process not worth the time and effort for most people.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Don't you have to transport lobster live? I suppose one could do this on a plane but the hassle will be to make sure the container doesn't spill any water during the flight, airline is bound to charge a lot of money for it. Makes the process not worth the time and effort for most people.

Maine ships live lobsters and clams by air cross country all the time. They only need a styrofoam cooler, blue ice packs and a bunch of seaweed to keep them moist.

Miulang