Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

[oceanpacific]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Is Isaac Hall (not a plantation Asian) working "pro bono" against HSF? He might, but somehow, I doubt that ....................

[Menehune Man]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

The thing is...
Maui is growing, it's the next "Oahu" so hopefully the powers that be create the infrastructure needed to support what's coming. Whether or not everyone wants that to happen, it will. So start doing what it'll take. Harbor issues and much more.

Kauai can take or leave it, though I think (though do not live there) that it would be helpful too?!

IMO

[dick]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

The thing is...
Maui is growing, it's the next "Oahu" so hopefully the powers that be create the infrastructure needed to support what's coming. Whether or not everyone wants that to happen, it will. So start doing what it'll take. Harbor issues and much more.

Very true. It's been this way forever.

Like when the idea of double-decking Dairy Road was put forth... people wept (and I think we have an idea of who they were) and it was nixed -- stupidly of course, since that whole area is a nightmare traffic-wise (much worse ever than where the SF will disembark -- and don't try and sugar coat it, that intersection by FHB isn't the nightmare that the anti-ferrys make it out to be -- and yes I go to Maui and that FHB quite often, thank you, so I know what I'm talking about). Why? Because of the tourists pouring like wine from all the airliners flying into OGG. Why isn't anyone weeping about that? Imagine a straight shot out of the airport to the Puunene Ave. intersection. Oh wait. It's ugly. Well a bazillion tourists stuffed onto Dairy Rd. everyday is pretty ugly, too.

Then there was the infamous Haleakala Hwy. fisaco. Why weren't four lanes built earlier? Because people wept about how it would uglify the island and promote development upcountry. Well guess what, development happened anyway and now that road is grossly inadequate. And 20 years later they're finally building four lanes and a barrow pit.

Strange times, indeed.

[mel]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

One of the most famous anti-development issues put forth by anti's is the Kahului Airport Runway extension. The enviros were against it because they were afraid of jumbo jets and all of the tourists that would bring. I think this was back in the 70s and 80s.

The runway extension never happened and to this day the main airport runway remains at 6,995 ft.

Guess what? Direct flights happened, more tourists came. Why? The airlines got smaller planes certified (many ETOPS jets today) to fly direct from the mainland and other points from outside Hawaii. Heck they still flew in jumbos even if they only had to be half full or whatever. I recall seeing DC-10's in Maui back in the day.... About the only plane that never landed in Maui was the Boeing 747.

The Boeing 767, 757 and 737 long range series are quite common there as well as to most of the other major airports around the state. Tourists come to the neighbor islands directly more today than ever because of the smaller long range jets. Don't need no runway extension to do that and tourism still increased 10 fold from "back in the day".

Bottom line is you can't stop progress!

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Kawaihae is going to need a new pier too, isn't it?

There hasn't been a final decision made if they'll build that new pier. It is very possible that HSF will use the existing pier facilities at Kawaihae.

The HDOT is in the process of getting reimbursed for the EQ damage to the
existing piers to get them fixed.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

How's that upgrade to Kawaihae Harbor going? Aren't they supposed to be repairing the pier that got damaged by the earthquake last year? Maybe I ought to drive there this coming week since I'll be on the island.

I inquired with the HDOT recently about the progress in fixing the EQ damagedKawaihae Harbor piers. They are in the final stages of getting reimbursed for
the EQ damage to the piers. There hasn't been a final decision made on the new proposed pier for HSF also.

[Konaguy]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

One of the most famous anti-development issues put forth by anti's is the Kahului Airport Runway extension. The enviros were against it because they were afraid of jumbo jets and all of the tourists that would bring. I think this was back in the 70s and 80s.

The runway extension never happened and to this day the main airport runway remains at 6,995 ft.

Guess what? Direct flights happened, more tourists came. Why? The airlines got smaller planes certified (many ETOPS jets today) to fly direct from the mainland and other points from outside Hawaii. Heck they still flew in jumbos even if they only had to be half full or whatever. I recall seeing DC-10's in Maui back in the day.... About the only plane that never landed in Maui was the Boeing 747.

The Boeing 767, 757 and 737 long range series are quite common there as well as to most of the other major airports around the state. Tourists come to the neighbor islands directly more today than ever because of the smaller long range jets. Don't need no runway extension to do that and tourism still increased 10 fold from "back in the day".

Bottom line is you can't stop progress!

Issac Hall was involved in blocking the lengthing Kahului Airport's runway. But nonetheless the amount of flights to Maui significantly increased. The biggest plane they fly to Maui is the 777. But on the return flight to ORD it has to stop in Kona because the plane is too heavy to takeoff .

I think I recall a political leader landed a 747 on Maui once awhile back. But it was probably not fully loaded.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

when you are not living or paying taxes here.

She also does not pay income taxes and GET 24-7-365 either, like we do while actually living in Hawaii.

This kind of comment continues to irk me whenever I see it. There are a number of us non-Island residents who contribute to this board, and who hold and express opinions on matters that are part of life in Hawai`i. Some of us have family there who are affected by these issues. Some of us may live there at some point in the future, much as was the case for some of you ex-Mainlanders who moved there in the past.

Last I checked, we were ALL welcome to participate ... and just as welcome to have our points shot to pieces. Fine, shoot down the opinions with which you disagree, or ignore them in whatever fashion you wish. But please stop telling us that we're not entitled to contribute to HT (unless you are the board's owner.)

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

One of the most famous anti-development issues put forth by anti's is the Kahului Airport Runway extension. The enviros were against it because they were afraid of jumbo jets and all of the tourists that would bring. I think this was back in the 70s and 80s.

The runway extension never happened and to this day the main airport runway remains at 6,995 ft.

Guess what? Direct flights happened, more tourists came. Why? The airlines got smaller planes certified (many ETOPS jets today) to fly direct from the mainland and other points from outside Hawaii. Heck they still flew in jumbos even if they only had to be half full or whatever. I recall seeing DC-10's in Maui back in the day.... About the only plane that never landed in Maui was the Boeing 747.

The Boeing 767, 757 and 737 long range series are quite common there as well as to most of the other major airports around the state. Tourists come to the neighbor islands directly more today than ever because of the smaller long range jets. Don't need no runway extension to do that and tourism still increased 10 fold from "back in the day".

Bottom line is you can't stop progress!

That's a very good example. The enviros may have won the battle on the runway extension but it was a Pyrrhic victory. As you've stated, more tourists than ever go to Maui direct now and the shorter runway decreases the safety factor. That's not a victory but rather a defeat.

It's also funny how the very people who complain about the increasing progress on Maui are the ones who benefit the most. I'm sure many Mauians appreciate the direct flights to the mainland rather than having to do a transfer on Oahu.

If Maui really wants to avoid becoming another Oahu, they should be the ones who need to be building rail NOW, not when their roads are 4 lanes across and bumper to bumper traffic.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

This kind of comment continues to irk me whenever I see it. There are a number of us non-Island residents who contribute to this board, and who hold and express opinions on matters that are part of life in Hawai`i. Some of us have family there who are affected by these issues. Some of us may live there at some point in the future, much as was the case for some of you ex-Mainlanders who moved there in the past.

Last I checked, we were ALL welcome to participate ... and just as welcome to have our points shot to pieces. Fine, shoot down the opinions with which you disagree, or ignore them in whatever fashion you wish. But please stop telling us that we're not entitled to contribute to HT (unless you are the board's owner.)

I think you're just seeing some backlash because certain posts involve a lot of media spin and lack of solid facts.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

It's also funny how the very people who complain about the increasing progress on Maui are the ones who benefit the most. I'm sure many Mauians appreciate the direct flights to the mainland rather than having to do a transfer on Oahu.

If Maui really wants to avoid becoming another Oahu, they should be the ones who need to be building rail NOW, not when their roads are 4 lanes across and bumper to bumper traffic.

\
Actually, I think a rail system would be good to connect South Maui to West Maui especially. I don't know if the terrain over the pali would allow for it, though, without it costing as much as Mufi's "train to nowhere" will. And a spur connecting Central Maui to the airport is something I would definitely use. Places like Boston have it down to a science. You can get from downtown Boston to Logan by subway. From the subway station, you take another shuttle right to the door of your concourse, and it takes about a half hour instead of sitting in traffic trying to get through the tunnel for more than an hour.

Seattle's light rail system will also within about 2 years have an airport stop. We already have commuter trains that run from the north into Seattle and from the south into Seattle.

On Maui, Haleakala Hwy coming down from Pukalani with that reversible lane during rush hour is absurd and dangerous. People driving up and down regularly go faster than the speed limit. When I stay up there, I usually take Omaopio Rd to Pulehu Rd and bypass Haleakala Hwy completely. Lots of residents do the same thing. Every now and then there are fatalities on Pulehu Rd because people also drive too fast on that 2-lane road and miss some gnarly turns in the road.

They've been talking about a new road from upcountry down to Wailea for years. That also would be a good idea because lots of workers in South Maui live upcountry and it takes forever to get to Kihei now. Would a rail spur cost as much or more than a new highway? Don't know. Maybe an EIS would be able to determine that. It'll be interesting to see what the next iteration of the General Plan for Maui will end up looking like.

Dairy Rd is a total disaster. Dick's right, it's worse than the Puunene Ave. intersection, but there are ways to get around it, sorta.

There used to be a connector road between the main airport road and Hana Hwy that went towards Paia (the road used to be right before the main airport entrance). I think you still can get to the heli and private jet terminals using that road, but the part that connects to Hana Hwy got closed off after 9/11, which is why everybody now dumps onto Dairy Rd. If I'm coming from the airport to go to Wailuku, I never go via Dairy Rd. I just kinda sneak over through the Kahului Industrial area and behind Kaahumanu Shopping Center and come out by MCC. Wouldn't advise a person unfamiliar with driving in that area to do that, though, because "Dream City" is a nightmare the way the streets are laid out! Cul de sacs up the ying yang (I've found a few myself as I learned how to navigate through that area ).

I'm all for public transportation, so you can't lump me in with the environmental whackos who want to stop progress completely. People who haven't experienced public transportation on the East Coast where they have done it since the 1900s just don't realize its benefits.

I think there should be an interisland ferry system too, but not this particular company's idea of it or the temporary facilities that have been set up on the Neighbor Islands for passengers to wait in. If Nawiliwili, Kahului and Kawaihae could each have facilities similar to but smaller than the $5.3 million permanent facility that Honolulu Harbor has for ferry passengers, I'd say, bring it on, because that would mean that at least some proactive planning had been done, instead of the current slapdash attempt by the DOT.

People in the western part of the US (that includes Hawaii) are still too tied to their cars to fully appreciate what a carefully planned public transportation system can offer. But as the price of gas inches toward $4.00 per gallon, I think more people are realizing that they need to think differently about how to move around, whether it's carpooling or taking a bus or train.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

I think you're just seeing some backlash because certain posts involve a lot of media spin and lack of solid facts.

I would say that the "spin" is coming from both sides of the issue!

[helen]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

I think there should be an interisland ferry system too, but not this particular company's idea of it or the temporary facilities that have been set up on the Neighbor Islands for passengers to wait in. If Nawiliwili, Kahului and Kawaihae could each have facilities similar to but smaller than the $5.3 million permanent facility that Honolulu Harbor has for ferry passengers, I'd say, bring it on, because that would mean that at least some proactive planning had been done, instead of the current slapdash attempt by the DOT.

I haven't been to any of the facilities on Oahu, Kauai or Maui so I don't know the status or quaility of these facilities and you have made a few posts to these threads about the quaility of the port facilities on Maui. All I can say this, please give this issue some slack. The SuperFerry service has only sailed two or three times since being here in August. No one knows at this point in time if the service will actually work in the long run or not. Or the neighbor island ports being used are the apporiate ports to use.

So the smart move at this point in time is for the temporary facilities. If after a year or two of sizeable traffic thru the port makes for a permanent facility feasible but nothing has been done about it, then sure your agruement has merit.

[joshuatree]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

I would say that the "spin" is coming from both sides of the issue!

More so from one side than the other. That's not a biased statement, that's just mere observation.

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Let's get back to the SuperFerry. Maui road transportation issues can have its own thread, if anyone wants one.
From this BREAKING NEWS item on the Advertiser's website:

Maui judge lifts Hawaii Superferry traffic rule

A Maui judge today lifted his previous order that only two vehicles per minute would be allowed to exit from the Hawaii Superferry site at Kahului Harbor.
(...)
August today said he would drop the rule, ordering the state Department of Transportation instead to provide three trained personnel to manage the traffic flow based "on real-time conditions." The 350-foot vessel is due to resume Maui service Dec. 1. The ferry will depart Honolulu at 6:30 a.m. and arrive at Kahului Harbor three hours later. The departure time back to Honolulu is 11 a.m.
The court case over the ferry's potential traffic impacts was initiated by the Maui Tomorrow Foundation, the Kahului Harbor Coalition and Friends of Haleakala National Park, who disputed an environmental assessment of a group of projects contained in the DOT's Kahului Harbor Master Plan 2025. One of the projects already completed is a bridge over a drainage canal that will be used by vehicles going to and from the ferry.
(...)