What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

[TuNnL]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

The classroom is not the place to speak pidgin.

Well, if it’s an English course or Newswriting class, maybe. But why would it matter whether a Math instructor speaks pidgin? If it helps the teacher better relate algebra equations to students, I’m all for it.

[timkona]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

Very astute question sinjin. In fact, my daughter, a 2nd grader, learns some Hawaiian in school, from the Hawaiian studies teacher.

I'm sure it will come in handy some day when she meets somebody who speaks no other language.

[GypsyLika]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

The classroom is not the place to speak pidgin.

That's what our teachas said ova and ova again everyday in school.
And what happens when you tell kids NOT TO DO SOMETHING? Dats wot dey going do.

A'ole pilikia. Its all good doe, us turned out betta den okay. Da locals & haoles I know who speak pidgin are all loud and proud. Us too busy having good fun to worry wedda proppa o'not. A place and time for everything yeah.\\000//

[sinjin]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

The classroom is not the place to speak pidgin.

Would you make the same observation if they had been speaking Hawaiian?

[timkona]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

The classroom is not the place to speak pidgin.

[sinjin]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

The only thing I find contemptuous is ignorance.

And yet you "cringe" when you hear her teachers speaking pidgin. Are you not thinking less of them at that moment? You know, like they're ignorant and unfit to be teachers. Help me understand your kinder, gentler form of ethnocentrism.

[GregLee]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

Also ain't dat kinda oxymoronic cause..... well neva mind.

You mean because "standard" implies a fixed invariable style, while HE speakers are notorious for the variability of their speech and for having mastered many styles? Well, it's arguable. But I think "standard English" comprises many speech varieties, as well.

[GypsyLika]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

I suppose you know about this, but in case not, I'll mention Carol Odo's U. Hawaii dissertation on the phonology of Hawaiian English. She describes the sound structure of Hawaiian English as just a regional dialect of English. There's nothing special about it linguistically that would make us put it into a special category of "pidgins" or "creoles". Perhaps historically it arose in a special way, but now, it's become no more than a variety of American English. As I recall, Carol refers to it as Hawaii Standard English -- HSE.

I think so too. Da first generation of Pidgin was/is moe different den nowadays cause dat 1st generation was learned from people who came from da old country and/or Native Hawaiian speakas yeah. So den da language evolves into moe mainstream and closa to standard English now. Plus get TV & radio etc dat you hear everyday. Way befoe wen no had TV or radio listen to standard English, and if had only certain households had'em.

So yeah I would tink Pidgin now is closa to regula den way different.

Ooooh HSE = Hawaii Standard English dat sound junk. I like Pidgin - feddas and all. Also ain't dat kinda oxymoronic cause..... well neva mind.

[Peshkwe]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

Tim, if you were giving the kid 'practice' you'd make it a game for her rather than forbidding it in your house.

Let her speak pidgin, then make her flip to standard English at a moment's notice....then have her flip back when you tell her to flip.

Make it even more complicated, have her flip from pidgin, to proper English, to casual English at a moments notice.

[GregLee]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

( i am working on my masters thesis in English linguistics about Hawaiian Pidgin, or Hawaii Creole English)

I suppose you know about this, but in case not, I'll mention Carol Odo's U. Hawaii dissertation on the phonology of Hawaiian English. She describes the sound structure of Hawaiian English as just a regional dialect of English. There's nothing special about it linguistically that would make us put it into a special category of "pidgins" or "creoles". Perhaps historically it arose in a special way, but now, it's become no more than a variety of American English. As I recall, Carol refers to it as Hawaii Standard English -- HSE.

[timkona]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

No contempt here. Seems that most here acknowledge that they know when to turn it on and turn it off. I'm giving my daughter lots of opportunity to practice the "turn it off" part.

The only thing I find contemptuous is ignorance.

[sinjin]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

Been here 16 years now. Still speaking pidgin with malahine "training wheels". I seldom use it.

Daughter unit is not allowed to bring it home.
My retort is "I don't see feathers, so stop speaking pidgeon."

I cringe when I hear it spoken at her school by the teachers.

Why do you choose to live in a place where you have a general contempt for the people and their ways?

[GypsyLika]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

Tita Lika, Das you? How you girl friend! Pidgin Power!!

Auntie P.

Blot acking all quiet ova deya!

[GypsyLika]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

Friends gave me a New Testament in pidgin, Da Jesus Book, published by Wycliffe Bible Translators. They employed 26 local speakers of Hawaiian pidgin and translated directly from the Greek with assistance from Wycliffe translators, and from English editions. The company is dedicated to spreading the word of God to all in every tongue. A sample reading, Romans 6:1: So den, wat? You tink we goin say, "Mo bad kine stuffs we do, dat goin make God do some mo plenny good kine stuffs fo us bumbye." We goin say all dat? Eh, no way! Us guys no mo notting fo do with da bad kine stuff! Az jalike we mahke awready. Cuz you know, one mahke guy no can do notting bad. If we stay jalike we mahke, how we goin stay doing da bad kine stuff? Dass no good!

I have never attended a church service conducted in pidgin, it would be very interesting.

Some linguists are concerned that pidgin may be dying out. It would be a shame if it did.

I love dat book. Its a great reference and it makes me laugh and smile and want to read more. I enjoy comparing it to the standard one.

I think Pidgin has died out in da sense dat no moe plantations and dat da lifestyle is moe modern now, and get plenny TV, electonic games & computas fo'distraction.

Languague evolves with each generation. Be sad yeah doe if nobody stay walaau in pidgin. At least get dis book fo'perpetuate da Pidgin. O'and Lee Tonouchi - wea you stay?

[1stwahine]

Re: What is your attitude towards Pidgin?

Tita Lika, Das you? How you girl friend! Pidgin Power!!

Auntie P.