Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

[Walkoff Balk]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

In addition to the DUI and criminal property damage that occurred while he was on probation, Stangel was stabbed 12 times outside a Waikiki nightclub. And while he was the victim in that incident, the attorney on the case claims that Stangel instigated the fight.

There was an episode of House this season where the doctors saved the life of a mysterious patient who turned out to be a serial killer.

[tutusue]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

No only Prozac and Aprazopam, Paxcil (another anti-depressant) has been shown to cause violent behaiour.,

I think most any drug, esp. those involving the central nervous system, can cause a paradoxical reaction. Even something as seemingly innocuous as Benadryl. I have a couple of friends who experienced almost an amphetamine buzz off that OTC med that normally causes sedation. The elderly mother of a friend of mine commited suicide after less than a week on Prozac. Ditto for a neighbor. Many years ago, my doc prescribed Celexa for my sleep disorder. I took half the recommended dosage the first night and was wired all night; didn't sleep at all! Then it caused an anxiety attack in the morning. Ambien also wired me. So much for any sleep benefits!

Love, love, love my naturopath!

[Amati]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/2...ndolences.html

"We want to express our grief, our sincere condolences to the three families so tragically affected by this crisis, this senseless act of violence," Stangel told reporters in his first interview since the tragedy. "I wish there were some answers, but frankly, we're just as baffled as anyone else."

Stangel, who came back from the mainland on Tuesday,

He said when first learning of the news, his family "pretty much bottomed out."

"I have nothing to hide," said Stangel, dressed in a blue aloha shirt and brown corduroy pants. "Obviously, it's a shameful thing. It's a tragic thing. … I want you to see we're struggling with this as a family. We're trying to figure out how to proceed, how to process this whole thing."He said he hopes he can meet the victims' families to express his sorrow."We're sorry," he said he would tell them. "You're innocent. This should have never happened."

For the doubters of the integrity Pastor Stangel (the father), yes, the family was sorrowful after learning of the tragedy, they had "pretty much bottomed out", and have returned to Hawaii to try and put the pieces together. His integrity remains intact.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

Hmmm. Now I'm beginning to understand why Pastor Stangel wasn't too eager to come back home.

We also now know the guy has been back for days. You have no basis in reality for your unflattering ongoing silliness.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

We also now know the guy has been back for days.

Star Advertiser said he came back Tuesday. So two days, to be exact.

For the doubters of the integrity Pastor Stangel (the father), yes, the family was sorrowful after learning of the tragedy, they had "pretty much bottomed out", and have returned to Hawaii to try and put the pieces together. His integrity remains intact.

He deserves credit for finally coming back.

But talking to the press.....that's merely taking the first step in what is going to be a very long and arduous journey in dealing with this tragedy. As of the writing of the article, he hasn't confronted his son. And he hasn't met any of the 3 victim's families. Those meetings are going to be significantly tougher and more gut-wrenching than the baby step of making a statement to the media.

And then, there's going to be the challenge of continuing to lead his North Shore church, under circumstances and conditions that are now forever changed.

How he and his family cope and get through this ongoing ordeal..... that's when you start talking about qualities like "integrity." It's not something to be assessed at the very beginning.

[Amati]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

As of the the writing of the article, he hasn't confronted his son. And he hasn't met any of the 3 victim's families. Those meetings are going to be significantly tougher and more gut-wrenching than the baby step of making a statement to the media.

FM, you should consider writing "The Authoritative Guide For Pastors on How To Handle Personal Family Tragedy and Communication With Victims, Press, and the Public". You certainly seem to know exactly how the grieving Pastor should be doing things.

I've often wondered if you are "for real", or just putting us HTers on. I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are just playing with us, you cannot be serious.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

I've often wondered if you are "for real", or just putting us HTers on. I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are just playing with us, you cannot be serious.

My last post was dead serious.

Exactly what did I say in my previous post that you would take issue with? What part do you disagree with?

And judging by what some other people have said in this thread, I don't think you are in a position to be speaking for the entire HT community.

[TuNnL]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

Amati, you seem to have an increasing problem allowing people to express their opinion on HT. It’s just an opinion. A search of my posts will show I’ve had my disagreements with FM and I’ll admit he has pissed me off royally at times. But I have never gone as far as you are now. If I didn’t know better, I’d say you’re vying to be Stangel’s lawyer.

[Amati]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

FM, Your pointing at me does not deflect the silliness (I believe that is the word someone else used) of your continued criticism of the Pastor (who was NOT the perp in the shootings).

Yes, you are just playing, I'm sure of it now.

Tunnl, if it is unclear, I think it is totally disrespectful to one of the victims of the tragedy (yes, the perp's family is a victim of the tragedy, too), to be passing judgement on how they should behave in their time of grieving (both for their own family, and the victims' families).

Meanwhile, do I feel that MY passing judgement on the words on FM is correct action? Yes, I don't see FM as a victim of anything right now (except for being a victim of their own "silliness").

Can some pass judgement on MY stance? Sure. But, stick to the underlying facts of the situation please, not just that you do not like to be criticized.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

Amati, you seem to have an increasing problem allowing people to express their opinion on HT. It’s just an opinion. A search of my posts will show I’ve had my disagreements with FM and I’ll admit he has pissed me off royally at times. But I have never gone as far as you are now. If I didn’t know better, I’d say you’re vying to be Stangel’s lawyer.

Our squabbles mostly center around the fact that we sit on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to Mufi Hannemann and Ed Case.

Your pointing at me does not deflect the silliness (I believe that is the word someone else used) of your continued criticism of the Pastor (who was NOT the perp in the shootings).

Yes, you are just playing, I'm sure of it now.

"Continued criticism of the Pastor?"

Where in post #80 did I criticize Mike Stangel?

And you still haven't articulated your exact points of disagreement with anything I said in that same post.

Strange, Amati. Up till now, I've never known you to make summary pronouncements without specifying details to back up what you're saying.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

A search of my posts will show I’ve had my disagreements with FM and I’ll admit he has pissed me off royally at times.

You are in good company. I think Frankie thrives on conflict and disagreement - only he knows for sure, but that's my 'polite' opinion.
I suspect he has me on ignore since the 'FM/Kaonohi wars' of months ago (years?) when we were both put on probation and almost got banned.

Frankie has a way of wording his 'polite comments' so that his prose inflames others. Sometimes I think he always wants to have the 'last word' or to feel he has 'won' an argument, but I may be way off the mark.

In fact, I may be his mirror image, and describing my own behaviour.

'Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of Frankie's Market?' Not me, that's for sure.

On the other hand, Frankie is a valuable resource who brings us information we would not have otherwise, and we must preserve our precious resources. We need to treat him as a beloved, but genetically meshed cousin with a straight pipeline to the divine --- and to the infernal, as well. Tread lightly, so as not to despoil our resources, yet avoid knuckling under to the more devious attributes - IF indeed they exist.

Like it or not, he is one of us. Like Ron and Walkoff and Ka`onohi, we tolerate them because... well, just because. Maybe because diversity is a GOOD thing.

K - den

[Amati]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

I suspect he has me on ignore since the 'FM/Kaonohi wars' of months ago (years?) when we were both put on probation and almost got banned.

Kaonohi, thank you for reminding me about the need to avoid forum wars. I made a personal mistake in "un-ignoring" someone [of course I am not referring to you], and I shall correct my error right now. And I will pay more attention to making sure I sign in before I read HT, so that my ignore functions works. As we all know, if you are not signed on, everything shows up.

My bad. I shall fix it.

Peace to all. Including our assorted HTers. And to our entire Hawaii community, who is having to deal with this terrible tragedy.

[TuNnL]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

Boy, it’s going to be a gut-wrenching summer for the families of Toby Stangel’s victims. I guess he’s going to make them go through this...

Stangel pleads not guilty to shooting; trial set for August

By Gregg K. Kakesako
POSTED: 10:21 a.m. HST, Jun 13, 2011

The 28-year-old Wahiawa man accused of killing a mother of 10 and injuring two others during a 17-minute freeway shooting spree on Oahu will go on trial in Circuit Court during the week of Aug. 15.

Toby Stangel, who was represented by deputy public defender Lee Hayakawa, did not speak during his arraignment this morning before Circuit Judge Richard Perkins. Hayakawa entered a plea of not guilty for Stangel.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Shooting rampage on 06/03/11

I'm thinking the "not guilty" plea was to give the public defender more time to build a case for more leniency considering the outcome if he pleaded guilty.

Still, I'd be hard pressed to control my anger at him if it were my wife he killed. Stangle is safer behind bars where tempers cannot get to him. On the streets, he's fair game.

[Kaonohi]

Going to Hell in a handbasket, re: shooting rampage

I'm thinking the "not guilty" plea was to give the public defender more time to build a case for more leniency considering the outcome if he pleaded guilty.

Still, I'd be hard pressed to control my anger at him if it were my wife he killed. Stangle is safer behind bars where tempers cannot get to him. On the streets, he's fair game.

Nowadays, almost everybody who gets a lawyer for any serious case (which is almost mandatory - often even judges insist on it) either makes a pre-trial deal for a reduced sentence or pleads 'not guilty.' Yes, it is a case of getting more time for building a stronger case or obtaining more information (e.g., doctor's assessment for insanity plea). It seems like nobody takes responsibility for their actions any more, and why not? If you have a chance of avoiding responsibility/repercussions for doing something wrong, why not take the chance?

I think most cases that end in a guilty verdict are "proven beyond a reasonable doubt" despite the perpetrator's insistence of innocence. Then, despite a guilty verdict our over-lenient judges* (motivated in part by our over-crowded prisons) encourage more crime by light sentencing.

(*thanks to Frankie for that thread)