More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

[Palolo Joe]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

besides, no one drives to chinatown. No parking. all parking lots paved over.

Now really, what the hell are you talking about? Lots of people drive to Chinatown, and there are parking lots - even municipal ones where it isn't very expensive to park and wander around for a couple of hours. Never mind tons of street parking after the aloha shirt army goes home at 5 p.m.

[kimo55]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

Now really, what the hell are you talking about? Lots of people drive to Chinatown, and there are parking lots - even municipal ones where it isn't very expensive to park and wander around for a couple of hours. Never mind tons of street parking after the aloha shirt army goes home at 5 p.m.

really, I am talking about;
after 5 is not when I want to shop chinatown, with all the import shops and collector's shops closed.
In the 70's and 80's there was much more parking than there is now.
Too often i have has to do the downtown circle thing; cruising around for too long looking for a parking spot. Not worth it anymore.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

There you go, whining about the "good old days" again. Instead of circling for street parking during the day, take some time and find out where the municipal lots are. Even some of the high-falutin' buildings will let you park there if you patronize a business. Visit Spada for a lunch, you get free validation. Go to Palomino, you get free validation. There are more places like that, if you just take the time to look.

[kimo55]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

There you go, whining about the "good old days" again.

whaaaaah!...budddeyeliiiiike whining about the old days!

Go to Palomino, you get free validation. There are more places like that, if you just take the time to look.

yep, palomino was a pal o mine a while ago. But I hate that tight circular parking structure. Too dangerous. Now i have a secret spot.

[1stwahine]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

Aaaaahhhh, Chinatown. Eh, Bro Kimo, get plenty of parking in Chinatown and the surrounding areas both in the day and night time. Low rates too. Just got to look. As for the people of the area, no pilikia dey moa scared of their own shadow. It's only after dark when you have to be afraid.

[kimo55]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

As for the people of the area, no pilikia dey moa scared of their own shadow. It's only after dark when you have to be afraid.

dark or light. I know the place since the late 60's.
and it was rough back in the day.
(aaah the good old days.. whhhhhiiinnnne!)

[Miulang]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

Bob Kraus wrote a column last week about the very first attempts at reviving Hawaiian culture back in the 1930s. Much of what went on until the late 1960s really truly did more harm to the kanaka maoli than it helped to spread understanding of the true nature of the people and traditions of Hawai'i.

Since the Renaissance of the Hawaiian culture began in the late 1960s, an appreciation and respect of the language and culture of the kanaka maoli has slowly spread globally; unfortunately, there are still pockets of naivete and hypocrisy that exist up here on the Mainland about what the 'aina is all about (and it ain't necessarily about grass huts and hula skirts, either).

Ex-pats are doing what they can to spread the aloha, but to their dismay, when they hear about what is happening in the 'aina with the rampant growth of population, obscene real estate prices, etc., it makes us all sad for Hawai'i...at least the Hawai'i that we grew up in and fondly remember.

Miulang

[newroots]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

do you guys believe in the zoo theory? and i feel for the kanaka maoli. when the hawaiian revoloution starts , all the chamorros are gonna get on a plane and help you guys win the war. trust me , were all just waiting.

[Surfingfarmboy]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

do you guys believe in the zoo theory? and i feel for the kanaka maoli. when the hawaiian revoloution starts , all the chamorros are gonna get on a plane and help you guys win the war. trust me , were all just waiting.

newroots, the Chamorro and Hawaiians have nothing in common. You are not nearly as oppressed as you think. What makes you even think the native Hawaiians want the Chamorros kokua? Bumpy Kanahele and his followers will be able to seek what they quest without the help of others, Chamorro included. They've stated they don't need anyone's help; they are perfectly able to fight their own battle for independence.

I've asked you this before in an indirect way, now I'm asking you directly: What's your beef against the "haole" government in place in Guam. The goverment which saved Guam from oppression from an invading force in the 1940's, and whose ouster from power is still celebrated every year with Guam Liberation Day. The government which has provided Guam with one of the highest standard of livings in that region of the world. Don't think so? Look at all of those who have sought to improve their lives by illegally immigrating to Guam from other sovereign countries indepedent of a "haole" government.

What's your problem with this government who has outright offered the people of Guam a choice: Independence or statehood? When are you going to make a choice and finally oust this haole government of oppression? You do have that right. Make a choice or shut up.

At some point, Guamanians will have to decide on one or the other; the UN is not going to let Guam fester in a political limbo like Puerto Rico has..you will either be independent or you will become part of the union...something I do not forsee the the kanaka maoli ever being offered by the US goverment.

I really think you need to think about your own nation first and acquire your own independence before you start raising pilikia in a place where there's a good chance the kanaka maoli don't want you to.

[newroots]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

we hate the haole government cuz you guys hate .. guam is like hawaii's little brother.. just kidding ... i thank the united states for liberating us. but they didnt really "liberate" guam .. they just took us away from japanese , it was really in their best interest to do so. if they didnt fight japan , they would've lost the war. Guahan has been oppressed by foriegn people ever since magellan... the spanish killed and raped people here. theres no more pure chamorros left ..... no more chamorro blood either , just ancestors .. the american government provides us well.. but the language and everything is dying. its made us become lazy. they take the nicest land for their military bases. theres alot of complaints. Guam hasnt suffered as much as havai'i nae , i know. but were just following in our big brothers foot steps... just kidding.

[Surfingfarmboy]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

Hafa adai, Newroots:

To quote you: "the american government provides us well.. but the language and everything is dying."

You clearly have a better view of the goings on in Guam better than I do. All I really know about what is going on in Guam is what I hear from the web-casts of KGUM (K57) which I listen to on occasion...since Rlene Steffy left her show, I haven't had much reason to listen to it much any more..she really was a voice for the Chamorro in Hagatna, and through her, I was able to learn of the problems the Chamorro face in Guam. She even taught me some basic Chamorro!

From your prospective, it may appear that the Chamorro are a doomed people. I'm not going to challange that...even the UN concedes that the Chamorro are endangered.

But I do think the Chamorro have a much greater chance of survival under the current government in place in Guam than the kanaka maoli have in Hawaii with the goverment they feel is illegitimate.

I say this because Guam does have semi-autonomy..every shot called in Guam is not dictated by Washington; Guam does have power, under conditions, that can usurp the Federal goverment. Guam is recognized as a country of its own by many. It even has its own Olympic teams.

And like I've mentioned, Guam has a legitimate chance of being its own sovereign nation once again, if Guam choses to go independent. I don't see anything ever happening for the kanaka maoli in Hawai'i, at least anything offered through the US government. I've heard all of the possible solutions for the preservation of the kanaka maoli..let Moloka'i be the independent nation of Hawai'i, let the kanaka maoli be a nation within a nation..the fact is what was once their country at one time is never going to be their's again. Guam can be the Chamorro's again. To cite my limited Chamorro: "Hamyu lamon." (It's up to you)

And this is why I refute your philosophy that the Chamorro and kanaka maoli are kindred brothers in arms. The Chamorro do have a decent chance of survival if they take the initiative and seek independence, which is one of their prerogatives. The kanaka maoli, in my opinion, just don't have the options available that the Chamorro have.

Newroots, (I which I knew your name)..I do thank you for giving me and this forum a decent, well-thought out reply. I was under the impression that you might be the sort who posts replies like "Haole, get out of Guam" with nothing given to explain why they should. I was obviously wrong.

I do think your concern for the kanaka maoli is admirable. As member of the human race, don't stop being concerned with them..but at the same time, do not forget your own people..make sure the "old roots" are kept alive as well.

[newroots]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

ey howzit surfingfarmboy. thanks for clearing this stuff out. your point of view is strong. guam does have a better chance , but the politions here are dumb as dirt. it shows how lazy we are that we dont even choose between independence or statehood. i didnt even know we had a choice. your people are strong and ideal. i'm sure you can get control of your land back. people here admire the charisma you guys have. to suffer so much , and still be as proud and strong as you guys are. it sounds corny but , its an example for all the nesian places.

[kimo55]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

Kimo, since you may very well know more about tiki carvings and designs than anyone here... I noticed that Jamba Juice (the sister of Starbucks) has a line of silkscreened tees that feature a stylized tiki as its icon/logo. I'd love to know if there's misappropriated history there...

just saw some Jamba Juice t shirts at their new hawaii kai location. Their logo is an awkward reverse-pigeontoed cartoon "tiki". I'd rather this mainland corporation use a jesus icon...

http://www.damnedgames.com/ProductIm...susshavest.jpg

http://www.andertoons.com/images/blo...rd-Haderer.jpg
http://fckaisersaal.covers.de/cartoon/jesus.jpg

...to sell their merchandise, instead of coming here, appropriating a very revered Hawaiian God image and sullifying it.
Why can't america leave other cultures alone. Why must it commercialize and denigrate everything it sees... the bullies.

[kimo55]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

wellll, that's funny:
the web site that provoked the start of this thread....


"...stumbled across this web site wherein they basically created a whole product line based on the image of the Sacred religious revered Gods of Hawaii. (ki'i akua pictures taken at Pu'uhonua o Honaunau, the God images at the one of Hawaii's reverential sites.)

http://www.offduty-nolimits.com/catalog.php?cat=tshirts


is down, shut off, closed up, maki die dead, deleted, kaputski, or otherwise not available at the time. wundah wussup...

[kimo55]

Re: More sacrilegious commercialisation of Hawaiian culture...

ok, sooo...
here we go again.
at da risk of hearing;
"hey; lighten up"...
we're gonna go round and round with this new place just opened up on Kuhio called da big kahuna. apparently another bar.
and according to da weekly's pic, has big foam or plastic copies... images of King Kamehameha's personal sacred war god; Ku'ka'ili'moku.