Input Please?

[HawaiiDreamer]

Re: Input Please?

Today I read about Hawaii's Queen and the history of Hawaii.

I also read about the Kanaka Maoli and learned a bit about their history and current dilemma's.

I found an interesting story about a man named 'Bumpy' Kanahele and his village, which has been allowed many freedoms outside of the regular government. Bumpy is eleven generations removed from the king.

P.S. I almost forgot. I read about Kamehameha schools too!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Input Please?

Keep reading and researching, HD - even if it does nothing for your own book, it's an area where anyone who cares about Hawai`i needs to learn more. Whether you are from the Islands or not, there's a lot of eye-opening that still needs to be done; it can lead to educated debate about the future.

[MadAzza]

Re: Input Please?

I also read about the Kanaka Maoli and learned a bit about their history and current dilemma's.

"Dilemma's"? And you're supposedly a writer?

[Miulang]

Re: Input Please?

"Dilemma's"? And you're supposedly a writer?

Cut her some slack, Maddie. She IS trying to learn about the kanaka maoli and the "real" Hawai'i (and she'll remember to use spell check next time)

Miulang

[MadAzza]

Re: Input Please?

Cut her some slack, Maddie. She IS trying to learn about the kanaka maoli and the "real" Hawai'i (and she'll remember to use spell check next time)

Miulang

Well, she's trying to learn *one side* of that story, without actually taking the trouble to COME HERE and see for herself. But you're right, it was a cheap shot. Bad me!

[pzarquon]

Re: Input Please?

Man, what's gotten into everyone lately?

HawaiiDreamer, good on you for doing what research you can. I hope if you continue to have specific questions, some of us might be able to help, or point you in the right direction.

Personally, I agree that it's impossible to write truthfully about a place you've never been, or one you've only been reading about recently. Especially a place with a history as complicated and as rich as Hawaii's. But if you're going to try anyway, I'm glad you're putting in an effort to make it better than it would've been without any research at all.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Input Please?

Man, what's gotten into everyone lately?

Ehhhh --- maybe the end of the holiday season and the return to same-old-ness has made us all feisty today.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Input Please?

{Reposted here as suggested by pzarquon}


Your story premis takes a girl of six out of the Islands and places her in Texas. By six a kid has developed a set of social communication skills and an understanding of the way things works in their little personal world. Your six year old girl would most likely have used pidgin with her friends and family members if her mom was full on ...do you know any?

Language is not only a form of outward communication it is an identitifyer of who you belong to. For a birth time resident of Hawaii, native or not, each island has it's various forms or pidgon that'll give another speaker from a different area an idea of where they belong or grew up...kinda like a southern country Georgia dialect vs one from northern UP of Michigan. If her mom and grandmom were full on native Hawaiian, the girl at six would most likely know alot of Hawaiian language mixed in there too. Do you know the teases Hawaiian kids use on each other? The little kid games from there? A kid of six would remember stuff like that no matter how old they got and how distant they were from it...it becomes alomst hardwired into the memory becoming comfort memories very much like comfort foods you remember from your own childhood.

Ya can't fake things like that no matter how good of a writer you are.

It'd be a more honest premis if your girl were to have had absolutely no contact with Hawaii or people from Hawaii...then use your own search for the real deal as the character's search for her Hawaiian connection, when you stumble, let her stumble....

It'll make her a real girl/woman rather than a cardboard cut-out of a character....breath life into her, don't smother her in emptyness.

[HawaiiDreamer]

Re: Input Please?

You are all really gracious. I do have a question or two, just for interest sake.

I did read from a couple of sources information about the Kanaka Maoli. One source said that Kanaka Maoli consider others Kanaka Maoli if they are even a drop of Hawaiian ancestry. Another source said they are the only true indigenous people of Hawaii, born from generations of the land and that there are not that many of them left. So, which is it really? Those are two really different approaches. What do you know of this topic?

Also, I don't try to be perfect at every facet of my day. I don't expect that of others either and appreciate the same in return. Thanks for taking it easy on me!

Peshkwe, I did read your post on the snowball thread (and thank you for the clarification). From the list I could tell being a snowball was not a "good" thing, I just wasn't real clear on the actual definition. lol

I also saw what you wrote about a child of six and her probable level of knowledge. I have thought much about my character since her actual inception in my mind. I thought about her nationality, her age, her family history, etc. I am still thinking of it and taking into consideration everything everyone has written me.

Hawaiian nationality was not my first choice of nationality for my character. It was my second, actually. The first nationality I will not write here because I am not imparting any more specifics about my book, but I can say that I do know some of the language and the basics of that culture.

It is hard for me (as a non native) to explain to all of you why I chose your nationality for my character although I am not of this nationality but I will give it some serious effort tonight.

In actuality, I myself am not of any nationality that I know of. My father was adopted and the rest of the family has no specific percentage of anything. They are all broken apart now and the family is very small. It always has been anyway. I have almost no roots or family ties to anywhere on this earth and that saddens me and is one of the things I respect most about the people and land you live in. To have such cultural history and strong family ties must be a very special (and maybe sometimes frustrating) feeling.

Just because I do not have them doesn’t mean that I am trying to assimilate yours because I want them to be mine too. That is just plain silly and not fair and I realize that. And although I am not of any certain land (I was born across the US from where I live now and I have lived in many different states) I am still close to the land in a basic sense. I have always had a great love of the land, whether it’s yours or mine. I especially love the ocean and the sky.

Even before my own research, I knew Hawaii was a special place with a rich history. It doesn’t take a lot of learning beyond a basic elementary school history class to know that.

So basically, I wanted my character to have the things that I do not as described above. I wanted her to have something that I respected, a large and loving family with a rich culture and history. I wanted her to have a love of the land and it’s people, all of them. I know some of you are dead set against someone like myself (a haole) creating a character like this and for that I do apologize and I even understand. I just thought I’d give you a bit more into the why I want to do this.

Also, please don’t laugh at me. One of my most favorite songs ever is called One Particular Harbor and some of it is written in a language not my own, yours perhaps? If I post it, can someone verify this for me and tell me if the translations I have found are right? This has nothing to do with my book but more to do with my heart. I couldn’t stand to think I’ve been singing something for years that was so true to my heart if the words were all wrong. I can post the chorus here if someone is interested in helping me.

Mahalo,
Dreamer

[Lei K]

Re: Input Please?

I did read from a couple of sources information about the Kanaka Maoli. One source said that Kanaka Maoli consider others Kanaka Maoli if they are even a drop of Hawaiian ancestry. Another source said they are the only true indigenous people of Hawaii, born from generations of the land and that there are not that many of them left. So, which is it really? Those are two really different approaches. What do you know of this topic?

I probably won't be answering this as well as someone else could but Kanaka Maoli to me is someone 50% blood quantum or more of the people native to the land pre contact. Where someone of less blood quantum is considered part. Yes, it's true there are not very many pure 100% blood quantum Kanaka Maoli left, that fact saddens me all the time. Anyone know what the numbers are down to currently?

Many of us with that ancestry are "watered down" a bit so to say. I am a product of that watered down Kanaka Maoli heritage though I'm not quite as watered down as some. That one drop of Hawaiian ancestry refers to having even the most small percentage of blood running through your veins from the original inhabitants of the 'aina. The one drop of Hawaiian ancestry thing works with Kamehameha schools registration but I'm sure people have differing opinions on if someone with 1/64th or less Hawaiian koko is "really" Kanaka Maoli. I feel close to that part of my ancestry but I'm not 50% or more and who knows if one with more blood quantum than me would consider me Kanaka Maoli at all.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Input Please?

You have to keep in mind that blood quantum is a western governmental designation that was applied to Ndns as well as blacks and it's somewhat...ermm.... magical in it's useage

It originated with the slave trade as a way of keeping up 'stock' particularly with the one drop rules. Slave traders/owners didn't want their stocks to diminsh so they decided that whoever had a drop of African blood made them slave stock potental. White genetic material was overpowered by black genetic material no matter how minute.

On the other hand with Ndns the process is reversed, white or black genetic material destroys red genetic material in scaled degrees....where at some arbitary point the red genetic material is miracously transformed into white or black genetic material

Amazing ennit? Whoda thunk that there's such a thing as voodoo DNA...but there it is.

Ya see, the folks with black genetic material were property, the folks with red genetic material had property. White to color always ment checkmate to color....color loses.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Input Please?

Peshkwe, I did read your post on the snowball thread (and thank you for the clarification). From the list I could tell being a snowball was not a "good" thing, I just wasn't real clear on the actual definition. lol

I also saw what you wrote about a child of six and her probable level of knowledge. I have thought much about my character since her actual inception in my mind. I thought about her nationality, her age, her family history, etc. I am still thinking of it and taking into consideration everything everyone has written me.

That's cool, at least you're willing to consider a viewpoint that doesn't coincide with yours and not dismiss it immediatly.

Hawaiian nationality was not my first choice of nationality for my character. It was my second, actually. The first nationality I will not write here because I am not imparting any more specifics about my book, but I can say that I do know some of the language and the basics of that culture.

It is hard for me (as a non native) to explain to all of you why I chose your nationality for my character although I am not of this nationality but I will give it some serious effort tonight.

In actuality, I myself am not of any nationality that I know of. My father was adopted and the rest of the family has no specific percentage of anything. They are all broken apart now and the family is very small. It always has been anyway. I have almost no roots or family ties to anywhere on this earth and that saddens me and is one of the things I respect most about the people and land you live in. To have such cultural history and strong family ties must be a very special (and maybe sometimes frustrating) feeling.

Just because I do not have them doesn’t mean that I am trying to assimilate yours because I want them to be mine too. That is just plain silly and not fair and I realize that. And although I am not of any certain land (I was born across the US from where I live now and I have lived in many different states) I am still close to the land in a basic sense. I have always had a great love of the land, whether it’s yours or mine. I especially love the ocean and the sky.

Even before my own research, I knew Hawaii was a special place with a rich history. It doesn’t take a lot of learning beyond a basic elementary school history class to know that.

So basically, I wanted my character to have the things that I do not as described above. I wanted her to have something that I respected, a large and loving family with a rich culture and history. I wanted her to have a love of the land and it’s people, all of them. I know some of you are dead set against someone like myself (a haole) creating a character like this and for that I do apologize and I even understand. I just thought I’d give you a bit more into the why I want to do this.

Shoot no one here is gonna really bite your head off...chew on it a bit and make it really sloppy....but snap it right off? Nahhhh...

You come with legit questions about whether this or that is correct or not and you'll get answers...maybe not exactly what you were hoping for as far as the way you thought you could use it, but they'll be straight.

You can have give your character what you want with the big loving family and deep roots, but she may have to grow into it rather than have it served up ready made to make it pono. <<=+=+=(Hey y'all...see....I be larnin! )

FYI I'm not in nor ever have been to Hawaii... if I can be welcomed so can you.

Also, please don’t laugh at me. One of my most favorite songs ever is called One Particular Harbor and some of it is written in a language not my own, yours perhaps? If I post it, can someone verify this for me and tell me if the translations I have found are right? This has nothing to do with my book but more to do with my heart. I couldn’t stand to think I’ve been singing something for years that was so true to my heart if the words were all wrong. I can post the chorus here if someone is interested in helping me.

Go for it, worst anyone could say is it's not familiar.


{edit...stomps stray tag}

[anapuni808]

Re: Input Please?

Hawaiian nationality was not my first choice of nationality for my character. It was my second, actually. The first nationality I will not write here because I am not imparting any more specifics about my book, but I can say that I do know some of the language and the basics of that culture.

It is hard for me (as a non native) to explain to all of you why I chose your nationality for my character although I am not of this nationality but I will give it some serious effort tonight.

In actuality, I myself am not of any nationality that I know of. My father was adopted and the rest of the family has no specific percentage of anything. They are all broken apart now and the family is very small. It always has been anyway. I have almost no roots or family ties to anywhere on this earth and that saddens me and is one of the things I respect most about the people and land you live in. To have such cultural history and strong family ties must be a very special (and maybe sometimes frustrating) feeling.

Aloha Dreamer,

one misconception that a lot of folks have is the difference between "nationality" and "ethnicity". Here in Hawai`i, many consider themselves to be Hawaii Nationals (citizens of Nation of Hawai`i) but also consider themselves to be of Kanaka Maoli "ethnicity".

When I was growing up, I thought I was all these different "nationalities" - nah, I was born in US, that makes me a US "national". However, my many different bloodlines are all considered caucasian, so my ethnic identity is that, no matter where my ancestors came from.

As for your term "Hawaiian American", that goes along with African American, Japanese American etc. They are all Americans of whatever ethnic group they belong to, not the other way around. and of course, there are many Kanaka Maoli who do not consider themselves "American", so you can see the confusion we are all faced with everyday.

I'd like to direct you to a website for the Hawaiian Civic Club I belong to - it has a lot of links to other sights that are very informative and could maybe help in your research. The address is www.kaleimailealii.net.

Personally, I would love to read a book that shows an accurate viewpoint of the islands, especially basing the main character on someone who is learning about her background as the book progresses. That would be very interesting!

Anyone here read "Shark Dialogs" by Kiana Davenport? That was a very interesting, intense book.

Please accept what I have written here as being in support of your project - you seem to have the good intention to do a proper job with your book - by asking for advice (and listening ), you are attempting to make it "pono" and that is very important.

Fran

[Miulang]

Re: Input Please?

Dreamer:
That song "One Particular Harbour" is by Jimmy Buffett.

The foreign sounding part of the song
"Ia ora te natura
E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ia ora te natura
E mea arofa teie ao nei "

is definitely NOT Hawai'ian, although it could be Maori or Tahitian or Samoan. And how Jimmy managed to put the Caribbean and a Polynesian language together is a little odd...but hey, maybe it's because he wasted away in Margaritaville!

Miulang

[Peshkwe]

Re: Input Please?

I found this:

http://www.agnetworks.com/drewg/parr.../jb_trivia.htm

2. In the song "One Particular Habour" what does the chorus translate to?

Ia ora te natura
E mea arofa teie ao nei
Ia ora te natura
E mea arofa teie ao nei

Ua pau te maitai no te fenua
Te zai noa ra te ora o te mitie

2. "One Particular Harbour" translation

Nature lives ( Life to nature )
Have pity of the earth ( Love the earth )

The bounty of the land is exhausted
But there is still abundance in the sea



And this site that says it's Tahitian:

http://www.chrishartz.com/