Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

[sinjin]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

Right on AJAs. They did their part in WWII. But that's a different subject from the one Miulang is bringing up. Miulang is trying once again to argue that immigrant groups numbers 4,5 and 6 are more important and valid than immigrants numbers 7, 8 and 9. Silly. Only one immigrant to Hawaii is unique to Hawaii. All the rest are immigrants.

Hawaii is an odd place and nobody sees it or wants to see it.

Imagine this. Imagine that in the Bay Area or L.A. area of california, all the Japanese, Chinese and Filipino immigrants (and there are more in California than all of Hawaii) living today. But they like to use Native American Indian words in their speech, but just a few. And they like to put on Feather Head Dresses and beads at parties and graduations. And imagine if the California legislature was mostly Asian and they dressed up in Indian garb on opening day and sang Indian songs (like Hawaii Ponoi) which they can recite but have no clue what they're singing. And imagine that these same Asian immigrants still eat sushi, dim sum and pancet at home.

And then imagine these Asian immigrants trying to pretend that because they somehow are redefining what it is to be "local Californian", now they belong and the next wave of immigrants to California do not. These Asian immigrants define what it is to be a Californian and all other immigrants are just spoiling what they have created.

The summarized description above is exactly what is going on in Hawaii today. At best it is weird. At worst it is the stealing of a culture by non-natives. But the urge to belong, to be "Local" is so powerful that the absurdity of the culture is ignored by all.

What if a significant percentage of those Asian/Californians in fact carried some Native American blood? What if Native Americans were part of their families by marriage? Would they still just be play-acting?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

The sad part is that some kanaka maoli are dilluting their own culture by intermarrying other races and not trying to understand their own significance.

I know some Hawaiians who can't even speak or understand their own ancestorial tongue. But in the same breath live, eat, drive the western ways while spewing so much hatred against the very culture they're consuming. One of my friends who is mostly Hawaiian was arguing that people like me (Japanese Sansei) really messed up their culture all the while eating one onolishis Teri plate I pointed to his lunch and he told me this was Hawaiian food.

Yeah right Teriyaki is Hawaiian...hmmm so is the mac salad and the hamburger patty with the gravy on top. Oh yeah the kim chee and to wash it all down with a Pepsi. Did I mention that his clothes was from Sears, his shoes from Red Wing and his truck we were eating in was a Chevy?

Regarding Maui I think it was doomed from the day the paniolo started herding cattle on that island if you want to put that "mainland" influence factor into the picture. To the Hawaiian they must have been puzzled at the sight of seeing a white man riding a big dog. (Because they couldn't have known what a horse was)

Blame can go far and even into the spiritual realm. When the white man started taking over here in Hawaii I'm sure the Kanaka Maoli feared a take over and asked themselves, "why oh why did we invite these buggahs".

But taking it from a spiritual perspective, I'm sure the Aina felt the same way when the first canoe landed on it's shores, "Oh no what is this stuff crawling all over my pristine lands, I didn't need humans for millions of years why do I need them now?"

There is a thing called Human Nature and I'll bet even in those pre-contact days there were jerk Kanaka Maoli's running around giving grief to those dedicated on preserving the Aina. But over the generations, you tend to forget the bad and only glorify the beauty of your culture and mannerisms.

The white man may have been bad for the lands, but I'm sure there were a few bad apples that deserved to die in a cerimonial way back before Cook "discovered" Hawaii and so started the trend in setting the term "Local" It's always evolving and never changing from day one when the first Hawaiian set foot on these lands to when the latest tourist stepped foot on terra firma cementa at the Honolulu International Airport. Each brought their own interpretation of what is local, adapted and integrated it and here we are, present day "local".

And what is that? Going to WalMart with the keiki in the busted up Ford Aerostar to get boogie boards and go check out the waves. That's pretty local but until WalMart came into the picture, local took on a different angle.

There was a time when going to a sushi bar was something not too local to do but hey it is now? Zippy's is a local hang out but their menu is far from Hawaiian. Before that was Jolly Rodgers, a totally local place to kau kau. Heck the word kau kau isn't even Hawaiian...it's Chinese and JR was owned by a Japanese named Kenny Kaneshiro.

So what's the new "local"? Dave and Busters? Ala Moana shopping center? Best Buy? What do locals do and where do they live? "Local" is ever changing and you will have people lamenting on how it's changing from all ages and cultures.

Today is the Good Old Days for many of our Keiki who will have fond memories of going to the Ward Cinemas and telling their kids how simple life was...way back then: Eh keiki time we went to dakine Ward Cinema, we nevah have 100 theaters to choose from back then and eh rememba dat place...was called Dave and Busters? What stay ova dea now?

Sound familiar? Like from the other thread on Waikiki? Eh where was Kuhio Theater? Back then to the old timers, that was another Haole influence tearing the fabric of old Waikiki, but to many of us, that was the good old days.

It never ends, being local is an evolution in progress and whether you're Itallian or German, whatever you add to the mix makes living it here in Paradise another fawcett of the many faces of being "Local" Accepting it makes it "local". Decrying it destroys the very essence of a mixed cultural society we call Local.

[Miulang]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

Only if we shipped all the Asian immigrants back to Asia, then Hawaii would be more like the 1800s when Hawaii was mostly Hawaiian.

Miulang back to China?

Don't blame the Asians or the Filipinos or the Puerto Ricans or the Portuguese for being in Hawai'i. Guess who "imported" them over to the islands because they didn't want to work the fields themselves??? And I don't mean the kanaka maoli, either.

Miulang

BTW: I am not Chinese.

[Miulang]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

Right on AJAs. They did their part in WWII. But that's a different subject from the one Miulang is bringing up. Miulang is trying once again to argue that immigrant groups numbers 4,5 and 6 are more important and valid than immigrants numbers 7, 8 and 9. Silly. Only one immigrant to Hawaii is unique to Hawaii. All the rest are immigrants.
.

I never meant to imply that one stream of immigrants was superior to any other. My only point is most of us from Hawai'i are the progeny of immigrants, much as Anglo Americans are progeny of immigrants. My heart goes out to the indigenous (i.e. "first") people of America and Hawai'i and all over the world who through their kindness and naivete, ended up becoming slaves on the land which once was theirs. At the very least, we should honor and respect the dignity and human rights of those indigenous people.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

The sad part is that some kanaka maoli are dilluting their own culture by intermarrying other races and not trying to understand their own significance.

Craigwatanabe. I like your style.

You know I have Asian friends in Hawaii who have expressed a real satisfaction when visiting areas on the mainland populated by many of their own heritage, Japanese in Torrence, Chinese in San Jose/Milpitas, Filipinos in Daly City.

In talking with the ones who really enjoy visiting those areas, it bacame clear that there was a liberating feeling to being in a place where people of Chinese decent all consider themselves people of Chinese decent. There was no need to constantly defend their "localness" or "hawaiian-ness". Finally, they could be what they always knew they were, American of Chinese or Japanese or Filipino decent.

Now some Hawaii Asians hate being in those situations. They are the real "LOCALS" who don't want to be reminded that they really aren't Hawaiian. They avoid those places.

But that "Liberating" feeling for some of Hawaiis residents is an interesting one .

[kamuelakea]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

T

There is a thing called Human Nature and I'll bet even in those pre-contact days there were jerk Kanaka Maoli's running around giving grief to those dedicated on preserving the Aina. But over the generations, you tend to forget the bad and only glorify the beauty of your culture and mannerisms.

Monarchs sold iliahi/sandlewood. Wiped it out. So much for take what you need.

[Miulang]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

Monarchs sold iliahi/sandlewood. Wiped it out. So much for take what you need.

Who was buying the sandalwood from the Hawaiians, and what was it being used for? I don't know. Do you, Kamuelakea?

In the ahupua'a system of living, I doubt the sandalwood would have been completely depleted because there was no need for money.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

The white man may have been bad for the lands, but I'm sure there were a few bad apples that deserved to die in a cerimonial way back before Cook "discovered" Hawaii and so started the trend in setting the term "Local"

I don't think the white man has a monopoly on being "bad for the lands".

Actually, the "white man" (plantation haoles) ruled Hawaii with an iron fist from the fall of the monarchy to statehood but Hawaiis natural environment changed very little under their rule. Unless you consider sugar and pineapple fields destroying the environment.

Most development happened after statehood when Asians took control. Read Land and Power in Hawaii (Daws). I will summarize. Asians form hui, buy agricultural land, get friends in govt. to upzone to development, then sell to mainland/Japanese developers for hotel or golf course for massive profits.

The names involved in the DECISION MAKING and LAND PROFITEERING were mostly 2nd generation Asians along with a few others.

Funny how that part is left out of any attacks on those that "destroyed and developed Hawaii" and only the Hotel builders and managers are blamed for desecrating da aina.

Oh, an guess who most operating engineers who actually drive the bulldozers that clear the land for develpment are???? Hawaiians brah! You know it.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

Who was buying the sandalwood from the Hawaiians, and what was it being used for? I don't know. Do you, Kamuelakea?

In the ahupua'a system of living, I doubt the sandalwood would have been completely depleted because there was no need for money.

Miulang

Haole traders were buying it. Hawaiian Monarchs were selling it.

Monarchs needed money. They wanted big homes and loved to travel and wear jewelry and drink. The kanaka maoli did not need money. The monarchs demanded it.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

Sandalwood was being bought by traders to be sold in China for use as incense. So the 'iliahi forests of Hawai'i were literally going up in smoke.

[Paul]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

Who was buying the sandalwood from the Hawaiians, and what was it being used for? I don't know. Do you, Kamuelakea?

In the ahupua'a system of living, I doubt the sandalwood would have been completely depleted because there was no need for money.

Miulang

Please read this article in it's entirety. It explains how the Kanaka Maoili drove to extinction many native birds we never knew even existed.


http://www.hawaii-forest.com/essays/9706.html

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

the Japanese did one smart thing in order to get above the Lunas. And that was to become educated and control political and economic powerseats in Hawaii.

And yes sugar cane and pineapple crops did cause harm to the Aina by putting in all that pesticides into the soil (remember the Heptachlor issue back in the 70's).

But the biggest mistake in developing the ag lands was when the "Plantation Haole's" introduced ground termites to help aerate the soil for richer soil content (Waipio Gentry was built over these lands and many of these homes are termite ridden and that was just after a few years after being built)

The "Plantation Haole's" also brought in the Mongoose to eat the rats, and we all know what happened because Rats are nocturnal and Mongoose aren't.

Yeah the "Plantation Haole" really did a lot of good to the Aina alright. Then the "Subdivision Haole" came in and buldozed the "Plantation Haole's" pineapple fields to build homes. Now the "Big Box Haole's" have come in and build their mega stores on the Aina, some being sacred burial grounds.

But you're right the Japanese are equally to blame, they brought in Senator Daniel Inouye who helps bring in the "Federal Haole's" money to build schools and roads to connect all the "Subdivision and Big Box Haole's" establishments.

[Miulang]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

I've read the article, and it doesn't really state that the kanaka maoli were the primary contributors to the extinction of many of Hawai'i's indigenous birds.

"...While the fossils reveal a remarkable number of extinct land birds, there seems to be only one extinction at the species level for seabirds. However, the numbers of seabirds has been reduced dramatically, with entire populations disappearing, not just in Hawaii but throughout Polynesia.

I know the ali'i used the feathers of some landbirds for their kahili and their capes but I didn't think they ate many of them because from everything I've read, the kanaka maoli ate mostly taro and fish and eventually pua'a.

I think much of the change in the flora and fauna of Hawai'i was due to climactic changes which altered the forests which therefore altered what could be sustained within the forests, including the birds.

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

I never meant to imply that one stream of immigrants was superior to any other. (...) My heart goes out to the indigenous (i.e. "first") people of America and Hawai'i and all over the world who through their kindness and naivete, ended up becoming slaves on the land which once was theirs.

What about the argument that even the "indigenous" people of Hawai'i and the American mainland came from somewhere else? That makes the "indigenous" folks to be just the original invaders, doesn't it? And if so, then why doesn't your argument pertain to darned near every piece of dry land on the planet? If the birthplace of mankind was indeed Africa, then everything (and every place) since then has been a 'takeover' of one sort or another.
Not arguing or taking a position here. Just asking a question.

[Paul]

Re: Maui becoming the "Mainland" Island?

I've read the article, and it doesn't really state that the kanaka maoli were the primary contributors to the extinction of many of Hawai'i's indigenous birds.

"...While the fossils reveal a remarkable number of extinct land birds, there seems to be only one extinction at the species level for seabirds. However, the numbers of seabirds has been reduced dramatically, with entire populations disappearing, not just in Hawaii but throughout Polynesia.

I know the ali'i used the feathers of some landbirds for their kahili and their capes but I didn't think they ate many of them because from everything I've read, the kanaka maoli ate mostly taro and fish and eventually pua'a.

I think much of the change in the flora and fauna of Hawai'i was due to climactic changes which altered the forests which therefore altered what could be sustained within the forests, including the birds.

Miulang

That's some selective quoting. This paragraph of the article says it all. Climate change had little to do with the extinction. The Maoris of New Zealand killed off the Moa, another flightless bird.

One idea down the tubes is the idea of the eco-friendly Polynesians. Fossil evidence suggests a significant Hawaiian impact. Once the Polynesians arrived in Hawaii, they began to do two things to the birds here. First off, they ate an awful lot them. In the archeological garbage pits of Hawaiians past are numerous bird bones. Native bird bones dominate the earliest sites. As time progresses there are less and less native bird bones in the middens and more and more Polynesian introduced food sources such as dog, pig, and chicken. These pits show several extinct species of flightless land birds and numerous species of seabirds. Secondly, the Hawaiians cleared vast areas of lowland forest habitat with agricultural plantings, firewood gathering, and burning for grassland cultivation. This loss of habitat drove certain birds to extinction and many others were forced into marginal areas.