Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

[Keanu]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

I WAS talking about Hawaii. Try not to connect dots that are not there.

The question is still on the floor.

You WERE talking about Hawai'i? lol, by referencing Irish people and the IRA?... surely you jest.

[nachodaddy]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

You WERE talking about Hawai'i? lol, by referencing Irish people and the IRA?... surely you jest.

I jest right back atcha......... please engage the quote button if you are so sure.

My name is not Leo, BTW.

[Whitepoint3rchum]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

.........and I did not say you did. I am cool with ya.

Here: for emphasis.

On second thought, go smoke a bowl and try to DDR, that is always fun.

just in case.

Ah see, this week has even annihilated my sense of humor. Damn I hate midterms...

[Keanu]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

I jest right back atcha......... please engage the quote button if you are so sure.

My name is not Leo, BTW.

This is the comment in question.........

So, it is guilt by association now????

Let's switch gears a bit, would it be OK to have an "Irish Power" sticker in your window?

Okay, I'll bite and answer your question. Sure... you'd be hard pressed to find Hawaiians who hold Ireland and Irish businessmen responsible for the overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy. So Irish are white too, sure but they are not arrogant racist America white.

[nachodaddy]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Okay, I'll bite and answer your question. Sure... you'd be hard pressed to find Hawaiians who hold Ireland and Irish businessmen responsible for the overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy. So Irish are white too, sure but they are not arrogant racist America white.

Ya see, no IRA involved. Thanks for the answer. I think I understand where you are coming from but I just want to make sure.

"Irish Power" is OK but "Scottish Power" is not, correct?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: How bad is the surfing localism

As I mentioned, I don't mind being called a haole - ask any of my local pals and they'll tell you that I refer to myself as a haole. Your word/my word is a lame argument. The word haole 200 years ago meant foreigner (or no breath or foreign breath, etc) - not stupid white arsehole (which it has evolved into.) I absolutely respect the evolution of the word -
Ragin like a Mo Fo Cajun

a couple of things here:

1) cultural lens isn't a "lame argument". Its the truth. That's why you see it the way you do, and I see it the way I do. We are raised differently. You might have been raised and educated to have multicultural awareness--that is a common experience with children from the continental US, particularly in the urban and suburban areas of the 1970s--90s (if they used houghton-mifflin, scholastic press and other mainstream curricula that held national appeal).

But growing up in Hawaii means I was raised in a multi-cultural environment. We don't just learn about it. We don't just have 'em as neighbors. We intermarry. Typically we here have 5+ races flowing through our veins. Measure our ancestry in the quarters, 8ths, 16ths, and 64ths. We take note of our bloods. And proud of every single one. Find the humour in every single one. It isn't a kapu subject. It isn't synonymous with having prejudicial undertones. And it isn't relegated to skin color. A katonk from the mainland catches the same cultural static as any other dude from Santa Somewhere, if he shows up with the same attitudes... don't believe me, look for "kahalabrah" on HT and you will see some great examples.

2) the term "haole". I *hate* this whole "ha-'ole = breathless white dude" neo-definition. We have discussed what haole it means in its origins. And how it was a term of pride. A unifier for the children of missionaries and businessmen from many sides of the Atlantic. And it separated them (those born and raised in Hawaii) from the other newcomer missionaries and businessmen.

3) the evolution as you see it: I don't agree. There are many behaviors I have that are evidence of my haole blood. Others of my Pake blood. Many of my Hawaiian blood. Haole, Pake, Kanaka; I am flinchless regarding which term I hear. Now, if someone were to bust an adjective in front of it designed to call me out, then well.....

[Lei K]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Great reply Pua'i. I really like how interesting your reply's always are.

[sinjin]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

So Irish are white too, sure but they are not arrogant racist America white.

My mom's folks were pure Irish from Brooklyn, NY and believe me they were racists. See, the blacks and Irish in New York used to compete for the same crap work. That's my take on it anyway. But there is something to what you say in that Irish men in the Americas and I believe Hawaii were known to take "local" wives easily. Might be a question of availability though.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

WTF? I didn't say you were a white supremist. I said I thought Leo Lakio called you a white supremist and therefore I felt obliged to tell him that you're Asian. That's all. That's it.

I'm sorry if I confused you with my statement:

Having said that, I need to be very clear: I am in no way suggesting that nachodaddy fits this profile; I do not believe that is relevant to the point he is trying to make, and I hope everyone understands that.

I knew very well that nachodaddy was not white. Let me try to clarify: since my comments about those who want to profess "White Power" were following closely his earlier questions regarding the acceptance of non-white "power" or "pride" stickers, I feared that someone might think I was pointing fingers at him.

How that evolved into your thinking I "called (him) a white supremacist" is a bit of a mystery, as I thought I made it very clear that I was making no such connection to him. But he's at peace with all this, so you and I can be, too. We'll put it off to "the midterm effect."

[LocoBoy]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

It's funny but even though I'm born and raised in Hawai'i, specifically the Wai'anae Coast of Oahu, my better half (whos half Hawaiian) and her side of the ohana still calls me haole because of my fair skin, lol. What's funnier is that I always seem to be correcting them (in good humor mind you) that "I'm not haole, haole means foreiner. I'm caucasion" .

[TuNnL]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Locoboy, we need more people like you. No one should be allowed to hijack the word haole, IMHO. If you are a malihini with no ties to the islands, who happens to be ke‘oke‘o, maybe you are haole, in the true sense of the word. But since you are married to a native Hawaiian ‘ohana, it is up to them or their kupuna to correct this, not you to correct them.

[Whitepoint3rchum]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

I'm sorry if I confused you with my statement:I knew very well that nachodaddy was not white. Let me try to clarify: since my comments about those who want to profess "White Power" were following closely his earlier questions regarding the acceptance of non-white "power" or "pride" stickers, I feared that someone might think I was pointing fingers at him.

How that evolved into your thinking I "called (him) a white supremacist" is a bit of a mystery, as I thought I made it very clear that I was making no such connection to him. But he's at peace with all this, so you and I can be, too. We'll put it off to "the midterm effect."

No no Leo. I understood you weren't calling him a white supremist. I thought at first you were saying 'I'm not suggesting he's a white suppremist' which could and was interpreted by me to mean you thought he was white since an Asian really wouldn't readily thought to be a white supremist in the same way a Caucasoid would be and therefore the above clarification of your point wouldn't be necessary. I mearly twisted the words, a faux pas on my part, (I thought you were saying hes not a white supremist but implying he was white) and so I thought I'd let you know (turns out you already knew though) that nacho was Asian. That's all. No ill will toward you. I was trying to keep it simple in my paraphrasing but I mistyped. My bad.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

My bad.

Bottom line now: no more bad for nobody - you're good, I'm good, he's good...and good luck on those midterms!

[MadAzza]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Yes, you are correct. And you have probably raised one of the most interesting points on this board (except Maddie, who seems to think dismissing it is funny)

I damn well do not "think dismissing it is funny," nor did I ever indicate such. I thank you in advance for not making such an inference again.

[TuNnL]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Why is it that Potagees are distinct from other haole groups in Hawai`i? Is it because many of the supervisors of plantation crews (would it be correct to say luna in this context?) were Portuguese?

Yes, you are correct. And you have probably raised one of the most interesting points on this board (except Maddie, who seems to think dismissing it is funny)

I damn well do not "think dismissing it is funny," nor did I ever indicate such. I thank you in advance for not making such an inference again.

Really?

Because racism is inherently illogical.

Sounds like a dismissal to me. But I’ll agree not to infer it again, on the condition that you explain what you mean by your absurdly rediculous (and laughable) racism comment. Racism=survival of the fittest. Simple logic. History 101.