Toddler thrown onto freeway

[Random]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Random: I linked to the article in my prior post (and the link is also in the part of my post you quoted)

NOW it works.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Well, this thread has been real quiet since the Advertiser's Tuesday headline Mom wasn't likely to lose custody of Cyrus. As much as her parenting skills upset people, the state courts were unlikely to supporting taking the baby away.

While CPS may still need help, they aren't at fault here. Re-reading some of the prior articles, I see where the Grandpa said he wasn't woken up when he was left alone with the kid, so he didn't know he was to watch the kid. Further, the screen door was locked when the mom left. The family claims the child didn't know how to open it and so Higa must have opened the door.

Sure, the kid could have been watched better, but when it comes to fault, I'd say it's all Higa and the system that allowed him out. He was in as recently as Dec 11, but was released. The father says Higa "heard voices" but refused treatment.

[scrivener]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

GeckoGeek, you keep saying he never should have been out, but mental illness all by itself, even accompanied by voices, just isn't enough of a reason to lock someone up. It doesn't sound to me like he had any history of violent behavior, and therefore wasn't an apparent risk to the safety of others, at least not where his mental illness is concerned. If you're saying he never should have been out because of his ice use, are you suggesting that all ice users should be locked up?

[Random]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

The father says Higa "heard voices" but refused treatment.

The father refused treatment or Higa refused treatment?

If you start hearing voices, would you check yourself in, what with all the horror stories about being in an institution or that you may embarrassed yourself if not your family? You don't want to subject them to being objects of gossips.

Don't get me wrong. If Higa had sought help, it would never come to this tragedy. But I wonder if people are more afraid or reluctant of checking into a mental hospital than into a medical hospital.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

It doesn't sound to me like he had any history of violent behavior

How would you classify breaking windows? The father and the neighbors were well aware of it. I'm not sure as the mental health officials were.

But I wonder if people are more afraid or reluctant of checking into a mental hospital than into a medical hospital.

I think it's more of a case that the patent is least capable of evaluating their own mental health. To them, they're normal, it's everyone else that has a problem.

[Random]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I think it's more of a case that the patent is least capable of evaluating their own mental health. To them, they're normal, it's everyone else that has a problem.

Would you trust anyone -- especially those without the Power of Attorney -- to admit you into a hospital when you have a mental illness you're not aware of?

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Would you trust anyone -- especially those without the Power of Attorney -- to admit you into a hospital when you have a mental illness you're not aware of?

I can understand that people are unlikely to commit themselves, but I think we need to re-examine the "immanent danger" clause. At some point, the safety of the public exceed the rights of the individual.

[Adri]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Well, this thread has been real quiet since the Advertiser's Tuesday headline Mom wasn't likely to lose custody of Cyrus. As much as her parenting skills upset people, the state courts were unlikely to supporting taking the baby away.

While CPS may still need help, they aren't at fault here. Re-reading some of the prior articles, I see where the Grandpa said he wasn't woken up when he was left alone with the kid, so he didn't know he was to watch the kid. Further, the screen door was locked when the mom left. The family claims the child didn't know how to open it and so Higa must have opened the door.

Sure, the kid could have been watched better, but when it comes to fault, I'd say it's all Higa and the system that allowed him out. He was in as recently as Dec 11, but was released. The father says Higa "heard voices" but refused treatment.

I'm not sure this thread went quiet because of that article or because perhaps some people were vented out, some people might have stepped away from a topic if it got too heated and/or too painful for them, some people may have decided that endless speculation is futile and are waiting for facts to be proven (if it's possible to prove the facts given the conflicting stories so far) before deciding whether to go further. And there's a natural waning of interest as people who perhaps were not directly affected by this act of violence move on with their lives. Someone reminded me the other day of the uproar when Reubyne Buentipo, Jr., was beaten and wondered if anyone remembered Reubyne or knew that he was still alive because he's not the focus of the media's/public's attention anymore.

I agree that the ultimate responsibility for Cyrus' death is with Matthew Higa.

Regarding the "imminent danger to self or others" standard ~ someone with a mental illness can be held for a temporary evaluation period to determine if they're an imminent danger but I believe the US Supreme Court has held that involuntarily committing someone who is not an imminent danger to self or others beyond that evaulation period is a civil rights violation and unconstitutional. Therefore, unless we amend our Constitution (which would have all kinds of other effects that we probably don't want), there isn't much we can do about the standard. We can probably improve on how the determination of whether someone is an imminent danger is made and how mentally ill people are treated but I agree with scrivener that improving diagnoses and treatment of mentally ill people, like improving our child protective services and adult protective services, takes more money and resources and support than we've (a general "we", not pointing fingers at any particular individual) been willing to give.

[1stwahine]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I think it's more of a case that the patent is least capable of evaluating their own mental health. To them, they're normal, it's everyone else that has a problem.

Would you trust anyone -- especially those without the Power of Attorney -- to admit you into a hospital when you have a mental illness you're not aware of?

Yes.

I can understand that people are unlikely to commit themselves, but I think we need to re-examine the "immanent danger" clause. At some point, the safety of the public exceed the rights of the individual.

I have been Judge Ordered, and I have committed myself on various occasions. The last time was many years ago. (APPLAUSE - the med's are working)

I suffer from Mental Illness. I take Lithium and Topicate three times a day to make me balance. Without it, I become manic and someone horribly mean. I easily become combative...but there is no way will I ever take my life or someone else's LIFE!

The problem. People are not taking their MEDICATIONS because they don't have Medical Insurance or they're too Nut's to know where to go! I volunteer at KauKau Wagon. I am not a Social Worker, yet, most of the times when I'm passing out packages and talking to our clients, I give them advice on what agency to get help. On several occasions, I've taken and filled applications for some.

It's heart breaking. But we have so many "Time Bombs" walking around ready to expload. Every time one does, the Mental Illness issue comes up again...only to be forgotten in time.

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

[lavagal]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

Yes.



The problem. People are not taking their MEDICATIONS because they don't have Medical Insurance or they're too Nut's to know where to go! I volunteer at KauKau Wagon. I am not a Social Worker, yet, most of the times when I'm passing out packages and talking to our clients, I give them advice on what agency to get help. On several occasions, I've taken and filled applications for some.

It's heart breaking. But we have so many "Time Bombs" walking around ready to expload. Every time one does, the Mental Illness issue comes up again...only to be forgotten in time.

Auntie Lynn aka Auntie Pupule

Lynn:
I truly think you nailed it right here. And if I may, this is the very root of our nation's problem. Listen carefully to our presidential hopefuls on their take on some kind of health system that prevents the "time bombs" from falling through the cracks. We really need to solve this problem. Frankly, I think a nationalized healthcare system would be a tremendous help for our nation.

I wonder what the big HMOs and big drug companies think of the possibilities toward nationalizing a health-care system?

I realize I'm putting too many thoughts into this msg, but I think Lynn has a valid point. And why should she, an uncertified or unauthorized person be telling others where to get services? What does that say about our outreach systems? If it weren't for lay people such as Lynn, imagine how many more tragedies would fill our police logs?

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

The problem. People are not taking their MEDICATIONS because they don't have Medical Insurance or they're too Nut's to know where to go!

I don't doubt that's a big problem, but I don't see any sign that's the case in this situation. Higa was evaluated by professionals and there's been no comment that Higa has refused his medication.

[1stwahine]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I don't doubt that's a big problem, but I don't see any sign that's the case in this situation. Higa was evaluated by professionals and there's been no comment that Higa has refused his medication.

Higa is dual diagnosis. http://draonline.org/dual_diagnosis.html

"Dual Recovery Anonymous defines "dual diagnosis" as meaning that an individual has two separate but very interrelated diagnoses:

1. A psychiatric diagnosis
2. A substance abuse diagnosis which may include both drugs and alcohol

A dual diagnosis occurs when an individual is affected by both chemical dependency and an emotional or psychiatric illness. Both illnesses may affect an individual physically, psychologically, socially, and spiritually. Each illness has symptoms that interfere with a person’s ability to function effectively and relate to themselves and others. Not only is the individual affected by two separate illnesses, both illnesses interact with one another. The illnesses may exacerbate each other and each disorder predisposes to relapse in the other disease. At times the symptoms can overlap and even mask each other making diagnosis and treatment more difficult."

In other words...being mental and taking ice creates even moa an UNSTABLE MIND thus refusing to take his medications!!

Auntie Lynn

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I wonder what standard the courts created in defining "imminent danger"? Seems to me if they are unpredictable, then they are a danger. Or to use the standard for insanity, if they can't distinguish between right and wrong, then why do we allow them out unsupervised? If they can't distinguish, then it's just a matter of time before they do something wrong. (Interesting, the dictionay defiintion of imminent is "ready to take place".)

[1stwahine]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I wonder what standard the courts created in defining "imminent danger"? Seems to me if they are unpredictable, then they are a danger. Or to use the standard for insanity, if they can't distinguish between right and wrong, then why do we allow them out unsupervised? If they can't distinguish, then it's just a matter of time before they do something wrong. (Interesting, the dictionay defiintion of imminent is "ready to take place".)

Duh!!!! By George...and I ain't talking Bush, I tink you finally got it!

Auntie with no NAME today.

I realize I'm putting too many thoughts into this msg, but I think Lynn has a valid point. And why should she, an uncertified or unauthorized person be telling others where to get services? What does that say about our outreach systems? If it weren't for lay people such as Lynn, imagine how many more tragedies would fill our police logs?

Mahalo LavaGal! I help anyone who ask for help. People helping people is a way of life for me. My door is always open. My phone is always ringing for one thing or another. Emails galore. Every day is a new challenge to help another. I know I can not save the world...but I can make a difference. We all can.

We need awareness and we need to educate the Public especially those who are afflicted.

There are no excuses...Time Bombs are walking amongst society waiting to go "OFF!"

K-den...I gotta take my Lithium.

[tutusue]

Re: Toddler thrown onto freeway

I don't doubt that's a big problem, but I don't see any sign that's the case in this situation. Higa was evaluated by professionals and there's been no comment that Higa has refused his medication.

Just curious...has there been any indication that he was prescribed meds and, if so, that he had the rx filled? If called in to a pharmacy, did he pick it up? There are ways to get around taking meds other than refusing. Ignoring and/or lying come to mind!