overpopulation and overdevelopment

[kimo55]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

What I'd like to see is a complete redevelopment of areas like Makiki, McCully, Waikiki or even Kakaako where there are all these run down two and three story walk up cement and wood apartments.

careful
...yer treading on fascistic/socialistic/communistic ground here, helping the argument of eminent domain legally stealing property, land, buildings from owners with forced redevelopment schemes forced on the population...
"Quik! tear all this down and build modern convenient stacked ugly housing cuz we GOTTA pack more people in this finite area!"
"ta hell with the charm of older buildings and the concept of private property! that don't exist anymore! We need to create another san fernando valley here!"

[craigwatanabe]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

its no different than the tens of thousands that live in Kapolei and then drive into work at the same time ending up on the same roads that condo dwellers drive on.

I still think a high rise uses less of our resources than a big tract home development housing the same number of people. The only problem with tall buildings is the fact that it restricts views of the environment. But if I had to choose between saving our resources and saving the view, I'd lose the view first.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

careful
...yer treading on fascistic/socialistic/communistic ground here, helping the argument of eminent domain legally stealing property, land, buildings from owners with forced redevelopment schemes forced on the population...
"Quik! tear all this down and build modern convenient stacked ugly housing cuz we GOTTA pack more people in this finite area!"
"ta hell with the charm of older buildings and the concept of private property! that don't exist anymore! We need to create another san fernando valley here!"

You actually think there's charm in some of these old rickity buildings in Makiki? As for ugly housing, I did say Bungalo style didn't I.

And redevelopment doesn't necessarily mean packing in more people. Actually though you probably could, more efficiently than these walk ups that just look plain ugly to begin with and have more open space to enjoy.

Yes there would be eminent domain if it were a government project but this is for the people not for a politically or economically motivated reasons. Plus I think if it meant beautifying and restoring the land to a more pristine environment, why not?

[kimo55]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

Plus I think if it meant beautifying and restoring the land to a more pristine environment, why not?

that's just it; ya don't end up with that;

"pristine": not spoiled, corrupted, or polluted (as by civilization)

[craigwatanabe]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

OKAY DEN! Knock em all down and build a nice green park with taro patches and make the new homeless work the aina!

Nah den they would be all on welfare too!

Kimo there comes a time when old just isn't charming anymore. Especially two-story concrete rat infested walk ups great views of your neighbor's washing machine and mop hanging off the railing.

Back in the days of high density building there was no emphasis on making things nice. Just drive down Kapiolani BLVD between Date and S. King St. and you'll see a bunch of really crappy buildings with asphalt and gravel parking lots between them. There's nothing asthetic about that part of Honolulu.

There's a lot of beauty in some (SOME) of today's architecture and a better sense of reflecting the environment than during the 50's and 60's when most of these low-rise walk ups were built.

[kimo55]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

granted, the concrete bunkers need replacing. They have no ascription to "old" or "charm" But not da ol kine wood single wall construction, toungingroove plantation homes. If i owned one of these here, ain't NO one gonna tell me to tear it down and build a tower. Unless i want to change it, it ain't agonna change.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

Plantation homes are fine, they represent an era that we need to remember, however not a whole lot of em left in urban Honolulu.

[kimo55]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

well there goes a lil of older Hawaii. Once more.
to justify the greed and income derived for the developers, secured from new corporate stores, jamba juice and of course starblechh's, peter savio sez puck's alley must be refreshed and modernized. So long to another location of charm and reasonable rent and cool shops.
and the things , of course, is gonna block out more sky. It is gonna be six stories. or more.
damn their eyes!

[craigwatanabe]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

It's all relative...I mean what's new to you will be old to future generations. Can you imagine two old men talking story: Eh Kimo, dakine Mars overnighter launch pad wasn't that where the old Convention Center was? Eh Craig you going senile stay wea the old Nike Building was. Oh yeah das too bad dey wen knock down da Nike building, I tell you no moa respect for dakine old days no moa, geez Waikiki stay changing way too fast. Eh Kimo wea was Kapiolani Park? Braddah Craig you standing on it, now sit down and let's order our senior coffee and egg mcmuffins dammit I stay hungry Oh das what dey did wit da bandstand

[kimo55]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

It's all relative...

yes of course. that doesn't prevent it from being any less of a shame.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

yeah yeah yeah just drink your coffee it's getting cold

The problem with developers is that they are doing it for the money because our beloved state wants to take as much of it away as they can, so they gotta build for profit. Wouldn't you?

If there's a market for these developments well then whose to blame? We are the market and create the demand for these kinds of developments. These developers are simply supplying the wants and needs of the consumer...and that's us.

[Miulang]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

And just how did we all come to prefer new over old? Because despite the fact that some of us might be living paycheck to paycheck now, comparatively speaking, we are a wealthy society, certainly better off than most of our parents ever were. And things nowadays are not manufactured to last over time. So if it breaks, just throw it out and buy a new one.

Some of our parents lived during the Great Depression. They knew what it was like to do without or to reuse until the article fell apart. Most of us don't know that kind of deprivation. IF there's another time of shortage, or if the earth experiences serious droughts or extremely cold winters every year or other aberrations of nature, that's about the only time we'll change our paradigm, and by then it might be too late. And we would only grudgingly change not because we want to for the good of society, but because we have to.

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

If there's a market for these developments well then whose to blame? We are the market and create the demand for these kinds of developments. These developers are simply supplying the wants and needs of the consumer...and that's us.

not me. i support da businessesssesss at pucks alley now. I WON'T when they yuppifiy it and corporate stores move in, supplanting these old school shops that can afford it but can't soon enuff.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: overpopulation and overdevelopment

Pete Savio, the developer who plans to tear down Puck's Alley, says that he might replace the complex with student dorms to serve the UH campus. Now that doesn't sound half bad...

[Menehune Man]

Re: It's just never enough, is it?

And just how did we all come to prefer new over old? Because despite the fact that some of us might be living paycheck to paycheck now, comparatively speaking, we are a wealthy society, certainly better off than most of our parents ever were. And things nowadays are not manufactured to last over time. So if it breaks, just throw it out and buy a new one.

Some of our parents lived during the Great Depression. They knew what it was like to do without or to reuse until the article fell apart. Most of us don't know that kind of deprivation. IF there's another time of shortage, or if the earth experiences serious droughts or extremely cold winters every year or other aberrations of nature, that's about the only time we'll change our paradigm, and by then it might be too late. And we would only grudgingly change not because we want to for the good of society, but because we have to.Miulang

I read all the way through this thread and my stomach is tied in knots. Almost every aspect of life in Hawai'i has been touched on. My parents didn't have much, and yes they both lived through the great depression. I grew up in a rented house in Makiki and although didn't get everything I wanted, sure had all I needed. I've watched Hawai'i change over the last forty years. So many mistakes. I feel I've become a fossil in my own time. As far as I can tell here in Hawai'i... "It's just never enough, is it?"