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Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    One very good thing that Gov. Lingle did point out (and I really do give her props for being a moving target last night for all the audiences' frustration) was that the State of Hawai'i does not have a mechanism in place like most other places in the country for legal appeals of unpopular decisions.

    She would like to call a Constitutional Convention next year to look at the State Constitution and perhaps add provisions for an initiative/referendum process so that people can legally petition to have unpopular laws put to a vote by the people. It's been almost 30 years since the last Con-Con, and she said lots of things have changed in Hawai'i since then.

    It seems like a very good idea, and having the right to put to a vote unpopular decisions made by the government might encourage more people in Hawai'i to become active in the political process, rather than taking their frustrations into the street, where people could get hurt. It can be a pain in the okole to have this process in place, because it means that anyone with enough time can create a petition and get the number of signatures required to put the question on the ballot (lord knows, we've had some pretty frivolous ballot measures put to a vote in past years), but it becomes a more inclusive process for the voters because they could override decisions made by their legislators if they can get enough people to vote for their side.

    I have no doubt in my mind that there will be people protesting HSF's arrival in Nawiliwili on the 26th. What worries me most is no matter what kinds of legal ramifications might be handed out to the protestors who violate the Coast Guard and the County's rules, there will be people who will be out there protesting. Their frustration at the whole situation was clearly palpable last night.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

    Comment


    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
      It can be a pain in the okole to have this process in place, because it means that anyone with enough time can create a petition and get the number of signatures required to put the question on the ballot (lord knows, we've had some pretty frivolous ballot measures put to a vote in past years), but it becomes a more inclusive process for the voters because they could override decisions made by their legislators if they can get enough people to vote for their side.
      Clarification, please. Are you saying "we" as in there in Seattle where you live, or... ?
      .
      .

      That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

      Comment


      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

        I've cut and pasted the minutes from today's hearing in 5th circuit court below. sorry for the way it looks but if you were to check the court website, it's actually harder to read there, and they're the ones with a penchant for all caps.

        for clarification, petitioners are 1000 friends of kauai and richard hoeppner and respondents are the superferry and the state (DOT, fukunaga).

        not seeing the full document titles, it looks like petitioners filed for a TRO and respondents separately filed for a motion to dismiss. looks like the motion to dismiss was largely granted due to the judge's interpretation of HRS 343 and the 120 day SOL to bring up concerns. of course, i could be wrong. as you see, the minutes are a little cryptic to interpret if you don't have the actual pleadings available.

        CR#4/CD#89: **09:02:29--10:38:25** **10:54:58--11:39:57** APPEARANCES: DANIEL HEMPEY AND GREGORY MEYERS. ATTNY'S FOR PETITIONER AND PETITIONER RICHARD HOEPPNER, LISA BAIL AND DONNA KALAMA ATTNY'S FOR HAWAII SUPERFERRY, AND DEIRDRE MARIE-IHA AND DOROTHY SELLERS ATTNY'S FOR STATE OF HAWAII. COUNSELS PRESENTED ARGUMENTS TO THE COURT. *****************RECESS**************************
        COURT RECONVENED AND NOTED PRESENCE OF COUNSELS AND PETITIONER.
        COUNSELS PRESENTED ARGUMENTS TO THE COURT. COURT DENIED PETITIONER'S MOTION IN LIMINE. COURT NOTED 02/23/05 AS THE OPERANT DATE FOR PURPOSES OF 120 DAYS STATUTE OF LIMITATION PURSUANT TO HRS 343. THERE ARE 5 CLAIMS WITHIN TH PETITION AS FOLLOWS: CLAIM #1 IS TIMEBARRED AND DISMISSED. THEREFORE THE MOTION TO DISMISS IN CLAIM #1 IS GRANTED. THE MOTION TO DISMISS IN CLAIM #2 IS GRANTED. CLAIM #3, "THE PUBLIC NUISANCE CLAIM", TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CLAIM RELIES ON HRS 343, THE MOTION TO DISMISS IS GRANTED. TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CLAIM DOES NOT RELY ON HRS 343, THE THE MOTION TO DISMISS IS DENIED. CLAIM #4, CONSTITUTIONAL CLAIM, IS TIMEBARRED AN DISMISSED. TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CLAIM RELIES ON HRS 343, THE MOTION TO DISMISS IS GRANTED. TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CLAIM DOES NOT RELY ON HRS 343, THE MOTION TO DISMISS IS DENIED. CLAIM #5 IS NOT A CAUSE OF ACTION AND THE MOTION TO DISMISS IS GRANTED. HOWEVER SHOULD THE PETITIONER'S PREVAIL, THEY MAY SEEK ATTORNEY'S FEES AND COSTS AS A REMEDY. MS. SELLERS OR MS. BAIL TO PREPARE AN ORDER AND FORWARD IT TO MR. HEMPEY AND MR. MEYERS WITHIN 2 WEEKS. MS. BAIL MADE AN ORAL REQUEST THAT PETITIONER'S AMEND THEIR PETITION INDEPENDENT FROM HRS 343. COURT REQUESTED THAT MS. BAIL FILE A WRITTEN REQUEST.
        superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

        "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

        nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

        Comment


        • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

          Anybody who's interested in what happened last night on Kaua'i can go here (the Governor's website) for the whole 3 1/2 hours of content.

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

            Originally posted by Miulang View Post
            Very few people want HSF to sail away (the ones who do would never be satisfied with anything less than the HSF not operating, and I am not one of those people).
            What in the heck ? I've been reading this thread for awhile. Based upon what you've written, it seems to me that you'd be jumping for joy if HSF has to pull out ?

            If people get laid off, that's the chance they took when they applied for positions (it would be similar to being on probation at most jobs when you're first hired). If there can be a good thing about the timing it's that the unemployment levels are so low in Hawai'i that many jobs are going without takers. For instance, one of the Jamba Juice outlets in Kona is closing down because it can't find enough workers. The pay won't be the same as with HSF, but there are still jobs out there for those who want to work and bide their time until HSF can start service.
            That is most egregious comment I've read that you've posted. How dare you blame the employees if they get laid off ? The real blame lies elsewhere, namely the buffoons at HDOT for causing this mess.Yes the job market is tight. But when 300 people lose their jobs that is something pretty significant. Especially when there is
            no comparable jobs available here in hawaii.
            Check out my blog on Kona issues :
            The Kona Blog

            Comment


            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

              I love the fact that the rag tag misfit bunch of protesters are hanging their hats on the "invasive species" arguement.

              Fact is 99% of the people protesting are full or part INVASIVE species themselves.

              Comment


              • Lingle verses Kaua`i , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 5

                .
                === " One very good thing that Gov. Lingle did point out was that the State of Hawai'i does not have a mechanism in place like most other places in the country for legal appeals of unpopular decisions. " ===

                No legally constituted authority derived from the will of inhabitants allowed. Period. No Recall:No Initiative:No Referendum:justUS.

                Is it not presumptive to write Hawaii with 'okina as in how you spelled "State of Hawai'i" , unless, unbeknownst to me, the State is now spelling itself with 'okina.
                Last edited by waioli kai; September 21, 2007, 07:14 PM.

                Comment


                • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                  Originally posted by Nords View Post
                  I don't think SC cares whether or not the Ferry runs. I think they do care that politicians don't subvert the environmental impact statement process and that everyone follows the environmental laws, no matter how popular/unpopular their project is.
                  I get that impression too, they just making sure everyone is dotting the 'i' and crossing the 't'. If everyone else is protesting because of that then given time this will go away once the EA (or EIS) gets done.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                    Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
                    What in the heck ? I've been reading this thread for awhile. Based upon what you've written, it seems to me that you'd be jumping for joy if HSF has to pull out ?



                    That is most egregious comment I've read that you've posted. How dare you blame the employees if they get laid off ? The real blame lies elsewhere, namely the buffoons at HDOT for causing this mess.Yes the job market is tight. But when 300 people lose their jobs that is something pretty significant. Especially when there is
                    no comparable jobs available here in hawaii.
                    Yes, and the same could be said for the Dole workers who were laid off in Kunia, couldn't it? What are they supposed to do...years of faithful service to Dole, and then they get the rug pulled out from under them, literally with only a few weeks' notice, in some cases. Dole helped them out by trying to find them other jobs, or paid (along with your tax money) to get them retrained. Would HSF do the same?

                    Miulang

                    P.S. No, I wouldn't be happy. I'd be P'Od that some of my federal tax money was going up in smoke, too. That's why I think there have to be ways to keep the boat in Hawai'i while getting that EA/EIS done without having it actually have to sail. Most of the people who seem to the pro-HSF people to be against HSF actually are only worried about the timing of the EA/EIS. Is there anyone in Hawai'i who thinks at least an EA shouldn't be done? Even Gov. Lingle last night in Lihue, when questioned about why Matson, YB and the cruise lines didn't have to do EAs, muttered under her breath that that scenario will probably have to change.
                    Last edited by Miulang; September 21, 2007, 08:10 PM.
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Re: Lingle verses Kaua`i , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 5

                      Originally posted by waioli kai View Post
                      .
                      === " One very good thing that Gov. Lingle did point out was that the State of Hawai'i does not have a mechanism in place like most other places in the country for legal appeals of unpopular decisions. " ===

                      No legally constituted authority derived from the will of inhabitants allowed. Period. No Recall:No Initiative:No Referendum:justUS.

                      Is it not presumptive to write Hawaii with 'okina as in how you spelled "State of Hawai'i" , unless, unbeknownst to me, the State is now spelling itself with 'okina.
                      Mea culpa. However, the fact that the State Constitution does not allow for initiatives or referendum shows just how unprogressive it is in representing the true will of the people. Up here, initiatives and referenda have been used for such things as eliminating stupid excise taxes, killing the Monorail extension (after 3 previous votes by County voters to approve the funding) because we were going to be paying for it for 30 years and then it would only run 13 miles, raising money through bonds to improve many of the city's libraries and parks, providing guidance to the Legislature about where our tax money should be spent...etc.. Think of what the voters of Hawai'i could do to keep from being taxed unfairly or having things like the proposed rail system rammed down their throats. All you guys can do now is grumble because you have no way to let your sentiments be known in a binding vote. Straw polls mean diddly.

                      Miulang
                      Last edited by Miulang; September 21, 2007, 07:44 PM.
                      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                        Originally posted by kamuelakea View Post
                        I love the fact that the rag tag misfit bunch of protesters are hanging their hats on the "invasive species" arguement.

                        Fact is 99% of the people protesting are full or part INVASIVE species themselves.
                        Ho, brah, that's sooooo funny!!! You're RIGHT!
                        Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

                        Comment


                        • silently submit and die alongside hypocrUSy?

                          Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                          ....to make drastic calls when it ain't your money.
                          Like $40mln for harbor development to accomodate the invasion by HSF,Inc/Honolulu of Oahu's outer islands.

                          Lingle went to Kauai to deliver her final thrust into the soul of the people, aina. While she turns the blade repeatedly during the entry of her thrust** she professes to being squeamish to voices of defiance from her victim.
                          **Forcing a countdown/showdown entry into Nawiliwili in five days, defiantly pre-empting on-going court decisions and rulings , replete of all manner of colonialistic/narcissistic/imperialistic bravado and terrorUSt$' culture of employing physical dominance of, psychological dominion over, others, to sustain an unquentable appetite for unsustainable materialistic wealth and exhibition which in turn destroys all culture trying to exist in spite of it, instead of silently submit and die alongside it.
                          .

                          Comment


                          • Re: silently submit and die alongside hypocrUSy?

                            Originally posted by waioli kai View Post
                            Like $40mln for harbor development to accomodate the invasion by HSF,Inc/Honolulu of Oahu's outer islands.
                            That actually has a condition of being paid back. Besides, harbor development is such a big word for buying a few barges. Seriously, what major harbor mods were done?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                              The following is from the HSF website, regarding Kaua'i travel that was supposed to resume Sept. 26 (this was updated this evening):

                              Current Situation
                              Hawaii Superferry has made the decision that in consideration for the safety of the community, our passengers and our dedicated employees, the resumption of service to Kaua‘i will be delayed to an unspecified future date.
                              We are very pleased with the recent decision in the Kaua‘i circuit court affirming Hawaii Superferry’s compliance with environmental laws, rules and regulations as presented to us by the State of Hawai‘i.
                              Today’s ruling removes all environmental legal barriers for Hawaii Superferry’s service to Kaua‘i. However, the long-term perspective of the company is that a temporary delay serves the community best.
                              Miulang
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • Re: Lingle verses Maui and Kaua`i , Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 5

                                .
                                quote==Miulang "... the fact that the State Constitution does not allow for initiatives or referendum shows just how unprogressive it is in representing the true will of the people." ===
                                Whatever laws exist to empower the people near exclusively empower the interest of Honolulu County and its residents."

                                "Up here, initiatives and referenda have been used for such things as ... providing guidance to the Legislature. "===/quote
                                HI's legislature Oahu faction cannot know of the wishes of outer island inhabitants except as a result of conjecture and speculation based on wildly excised video bytes.

                                Comment

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