Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy

[Miulang]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

I don't know why the Estate would want to get involved in something as political as the KSBE issue, since the only reason they are so wealthy is because of the largesse of the ali'i who gave them the land they own today. With the trust itself embroiled in disputes over who gets what portion of the proceeds from the dissolution of the Trust into a for-profit business in 2007, would they really want to jeopardize what they still hold just to make a political statement?

From what I have gleaned from their home page, their main holding in Hawai'i is in Kapolei. They have interests in 14 other states. They are not solely tied to the fortunes of Hawai'i. I keep timing out when I try to see what kinds of grants their foundation has awarded over the years, or the criteria for awards. I'll keep trying to get into that part of their website. Seeing what the Foundation has supported in the past would be a pretty good indication of how they feel about kanaka maoli sovereignty.

Miulang

P.S. Yes, I knew Roberts was involved in the Rice v. Cayetano case.

[Miulang]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

I see your point craig... but you have to admit in to the statement that they only take the smartest. The majority of students in our public schools today with special needs are part-hawaiian living on fixed incomes. So is KSBE training the smartest to lead these peons or to look down on them? I like you am 100% japanese( 4TH gerneration) . What if they had a school for only smart japanese? You and I might be there ...but many may not and anykind of discrimination is wrong. I know KSBE can not take ALL ...but have a lottery open without a test give ALL( the hawaiians) a Chance.

AlohaBear:Rationing a scarce resource like slots to attend KSBE is a reality. Someone pointed out in another post on this thread that KSBE DOES try to help those who don't meet the admission criteria by providing funding to the DOE for Hawaiian enrichment classes in the public school system. This, in turn, gives all students in Hawai'i, regardless their ethnicity, a chance to learn about the kanaka maoli. I wish I could have had some of that education when I was in school in Hawai'i. I've had to learn stuff on my own because I have an interest in it. The reason KSBE picks the "best and the brightest" is because those are the kids who have the most chance of success and of becoming leaders in their communities to "give back" for the privilege of being given such a good education. When you're fighting an uphill battle against a really swift flowing stream, you're not going to want to use a rowboat...you're going to want to use the most powerful jet boat you can afford.

All private schools have similar criteria: they have limited resources, so they want to take the expense and the time to nurture those who will succeed, not those who will just coast along. Private education is a privilege, not a right. At least at KSBE, the students are taught humility, unlike other private schools where the privilege is taken to an obscene extreme.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

[QUOTE=alohabear]

And remember just over 90% of the student body at Kamehameha Schools are subsidized thru the trust, the majority being 100% subsidized. So monetarily, KSBE is paying for virtually all of it's student enrollment. It's not for the richest and the smartest...just the smartest that attend the campuses. The rest could care less about educational opportunities and would simply squander their place at Kamehameha with poor grades, as what happened before when admissions was based on a lottery.

I see your point craig... but you have to admit in to the statement that they only take the smartest. The majority of students in our public schools today with special needs are part-hawaiian living on fixed incomes. So is KSBE training the smartest to lead these peons or to look down on them? I like you am 100% japanese( 4TH gerneration) . What if they had a school for only smart japanese? You and I might be there ...but many may not and anykind of discrimination is wrong. I know KSBE can not take ALL ...but have a lottery open without a test give ALL( the hawaiians) a Chance.

If you had limited resources and had to choose who will get the higher education for the benefit of all would you teach someone who has limited intellectual ability? How would they perpetuate the knowledge they failed to understand? KSBE encourages all of it's students (upper grade levels) to take what they learned from KSBE and teach their people. KSBE cannot do it alone but their alumni can continue to help their own from the knowledge gained thru education.

The Hawaiians can be smart and most are. The Japanese like you and I were brought up with values taught to the Nisei from the immigrant parents who worked the sugarcane fields, telling our parents and grandparents to become successful, go to school and become leaders in your communities. And we did. Many Hawaiians grew up in multigenerational welfare families where successive generations only knew that subsidy was the way of life.

KSBE is trying to change that by intellectualizing the keiki of Hawaiian descent. That is what Pauahi's vision was. But the lottery system wasn't working and KSBE found itself doing exactly what I had just mentioned, that they were teaching the cultural heritage and education to children less interested in helping their own. Some refused to take advantage of the learning environment of KSBE and simply failed the process. KSBE wasted hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars trying to educate all Hawaiians.

In the 80's the trustees changed their admissions policies allowing only the best and brightest to enter the campuses of KSBE. But as all students were told on orientation night and through out their time spent at the schools, "enrollment here at Kamehameha Schools is a priviledge and were encouraged to help those who didn't make the cut. Money well spent, and wisely too.

The spirit of Pauahi's trust was meant to perpetuate the Hawaiian culture thru it's children. Education is the foundation of that trust and trying to educate those unwilling to learn cost the estate more than it could maintain.

Teach those who want to learn and have demonstrated (thru their attitude and previous grades) the will to live Pauahi's vision then go out and help your brothers and sisters so they too can be proud to be Hawaiian.

Like I said before: The three campuses are not the only vehicles of dispensing the assets of Pauahi's trust. The campuses are a priviledge not a right. The trust is a right to all Hawaiian children and is administered in many more ways, the campuses are just three of countless programs KSBE sponsors or administers to satisfy the vision of Pauahi.

By the way there is a school for only smart Japanese...it's called Iolani

And I was financially restricted from going there back in the 70's.

The problem with the attitudes of some who didn't get in is that these children didn't strive to get good grades or want to help others of their culture. All they wanted (more likely their parents wanted) was to get into a prestigeous school without the discipline of wanting to learn.

Would you want someone on your team that didn't do anything but brag about being on it?

I'm a somewhat smart Japanese but went to public school (Kalani 78) and didn't feel a bit embarrassed that I was labeled the Punahou reject because it was the place most students of Kalani wanted to go but didn't make the cut.

The only difference is that my culture is purely American. I take after my grandfather and my father who swore allegience to the United States of America after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Our heritage was disgraced by Hirohito and were ashamed to be Japanese.

The Kanaka Maoli are as proud to be Hawaiian as I am to be American for the same reasons. A foreign country had invaded us and we refuse to bow under to their terror and we swear our allegience.

KSBE is sworn to perpetuate the Hawaiian culture and will do whatever it takes to do it even if it means restricting entrance to their main campuses to only the best and brightest Hawaiians willing to continue the will of Bernice Pauahi Bishop...Princess Pauahi that is.

I was sworn to protect the homelands of the United States of America when I joined the US Air Force back in 1978 and was part of the chosen few who passed Basic Training. Those of us who made that cut protect the rights of all Americans. KSBE students passed the admissions testing and made the cut to protect the culture of all Hawaiians.

Like some Hawaiians who didn't get in, there are a lot of self-righteous Americans out there who mock the US Military even though American service men and women are out there protecting their right to hate them. The same goes for KSBE students and graduates. My wife tries to help Hawaiian Title One families cope thru their situations and yet these parents demand more services all the while doing less to help themselves.

Can you imagine these same people as our nation's protectors and teachers?

That's why you have to go thru basic training to be our nation's protectors. That's why KSBE limits its enrollment to their best and brightest and to catch those who didn't make it (despite their indifference) thru their outreach programs.

There are valid reasons why some make it and some don't. KSBE's reasons are valid.

[alohabear]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

Thanks craig and miulang for the kind words. KSBE is creating leaders( not only newscasters) for the next generation. Let's hope there is a generation for these leaders to lead.

[LikaNui]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

KSBE is trying to change that by intellectualizing the keiki of Hawaiian descent. That is what Pauahi's vision was.
(...)
The spirit of Pauahi's trust was meant to perpetuate the Hawaiian culture thru it's children.
(...)
The trust is a right to all Hawaiian children.

A most excellent reply, Craig. But regarding the quotes above, I'm curious what you and the other folks here feel about something:
The will can be read in its entirety (and it's surprisingly short) at http://www.ksbe.edu/pauahi/will.php . Dated October 31, 1883, the part relevant to the current issue reads as follows:

"I direct my trustees to invest the remainder of my estate in such manner as they may think best, and to expend the annual income in the maintenance of said schools; meaning thereby the salaries of teachers, the repairing buildings and other incidental expenses; and to devote a portion of each years income to the support and education of orphans, and others in indigent circumstances, giving the preference to Hawaiians of pure or part aboriginal blood"

Given that, it would seem her real intent was primarily to help the underprivileged, as opposed to the "best and brightest"? And that she had no objection to non-Hawaiians as long as the "preference" went to Hawaiians first?

Also, I found it interesting that the will stipulates:
"I also direct that the teachers of said schools shall forever be persons of the Protestant religion, but I do not intend that the choice should be restricted to persons of any particular sect of Protestants."
Is that clause still in effect?

[Miulang]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

A most excellent reply, Craig. But regarding the quotes above, I'm curious what you and the other folks here feel about something:
The will can be read in its entirety (and it's surprisingly short) at http://www.ksbe.edu/pauahi/will.php . Dated October 31, 1883, the part relevant to the current issue reads as follows:

"I direct my trustees to invest the remainder of my estate in such manner as they may think best, and to expend the annual income in the maintenance of said schools; meaning thereby the salaries of teachers, the repairing buildings and other incidental expenses; and to devote a portion of each years income to the support and education of orphans, and others in indigent circumstances, giving the preference to Hawaiians of pure or part aboriginal blood"

Given that, it would seem her real intent was primarily to help the underprivileged, as opposed to the "best and brightest"? And that she had no objection to non-Hawaiians as long as the "preference" went to Hawaiians first?

Also, I found it interesting that the will stipulates:
"I also direct that the teachers of said schools shall forever be persons of the Protestant religion, but I do not intend that the choice should be restricted to persons of any particular sect of Protestants."
Is that clause still in effect?

The Princess could not have known what would happen 100 years after she wrote that will. In a perfect world, I think her words would mean yes, all children, with a preference for kanaka maoli keiki, should be allowed to enroll at KSBE.

One hundred years later, the issue is allocation of scarce resources. Even if KSBE was able to accommodate all Hawaiian children, would there be room for the non Hawaiian children? I doubt it. The Trustees, in interpreting Pauahi's wishes today, had to decide what was best for the Trust and for the future of the keiki o ka 'aina. As Craig stated above, if the intent of KSBE is to educate students to be leaders who give back to their communities and who uphold the kanaka maoli tradition, where would you draw the line?

The Native Americans have this vision for their people: they live today as if they were planning for the future of people 7 generations into the future. The KSBE Board of Trustees is trying to ensure that there is something left of the kanaka maoli heritage 7 generations into the future. To do so would be to deny Pauahi's wishes.

Nowadays, religion is not such a big deal unless you're a zealot. I'm sure KSBE doesn't discriminate against teachers who are Protestant, so long as they don't bring their religion into the classroom, because that is US law. If Hawai'i was still a monarchy, Protestants probably would be banned from teaching at KSBE.

Miulang

P.S. It's also interesting that Pauahi made special note of assisting children who were orphans. In kanaka maoli families, they will usually hanai children to relatives or other ohana. So there were probably very few kanaka maoli "orphans".

[Stephen]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

LikaNui,

I too noticed that "preference" was used as well, but figured I really didn't have much worthwhile to add to the debate. Was her intent to allow all poor students an opportunity to attend regardless of whether they are Hawaiian or non-Hawaiian? Or was she hoping to give preferential admission treatment to those students of Hawaiian blood? Who's to say?

I do find it interesting that (I haven't noticed anyone) no one has mentioned the they find themselves in a peculiar intellectual predicament - I do, and here's my thoughts . . .

The fact that the KSBE schools are currently reserved for those of Hawaiian blood is in and of itself biased (call it what you will - preferential, racist, separatist - whatever.) Any school/institution that only allows a certain anything (anything being broad term - sex, color, religion, ethnic background and so on) to apply and attend is not only discriminating, but absolutely excluding all others. In pretty much every situation, this is something that ALL of us should be absolutely against. Discrimination/exclusion rarely ever leads to good things.

I will however say that I support the school - I'm not really sure why though. I think my very limited understanding of Hawaiian history and culture offers me enough justification.

Someone (Apologies! I think it was Muilang) suggested opening the school, but using the scholarships strictly for Hawaiians - not a bad idea in my opinion. . . . .

Just some thoughts - feel free to show me the error in my logic

Stephen

[LikaNui]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

In a perfect world, I think her words would mean yes, all children, with a preference for kanaka maoli keiki, should be allowed to enroll at KSBE.
One hundred years later, the issue is allocation of scarce resources. Even if KSBE was able to accommodate all Hawaiian children, would there be room for the non Hawaiian children? I doubt it.

Excellent input. Thanks, Miulang.
However, regarding "scarce resources" -- KSBE has assets totalling over 6 BILLION dollars. That's a long way from "scarce".
I happen to know an individual whose net worth is just over one billion. His income is roughly ten million per month, and that's strictly interest, without touching the principal. So if KSBE's principal is worth six times that, then imagine what they could do for the keiki if they really wanted to.
Just my two cents (or less) worth. Thanks again for your input!

[Stephen]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

LikaNui,

I believe most of the $6 billion in assets is tied up in land ownership - not cash money.

Stephen

[Miulang]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

. . .

The fact that the KSBE schools are currently reserved for those of Hawaiian blood is in and of itself biased (call it what you will - preferential, racist, separatist - whatever.) Any school/institution that only allows a certain anything (anything being broad term - sex, color, religion, ethnic background and so on) to apply and attend is not only discriminating, but absolutely excluding all others. In pretty much every situation, this is something that ALL of us should be absolutely against. Discrimination/exclusion rarely ever leads to good things.


Stephen

Let's just extrapolate the "racist/discriminatory issue" to a discussion of all- boys, or all-girls or Catholic schools. Should all boys schools or all girls schools allow students of the opposite sex to enroll? Should non-Catholic students be allowed to enroll in parochial school? The integration of all boys schools (as in The Citadel case or the military academies) has not been without controversy. Many of the all girl schools tried to allow males to enroll, but they proved to be disruptive. Some have reverted back to being only all girls schools or only allow boys to attend the day school.

The KSBE controversy is a little different from the above cases because what you're talking about here is not about a race, it's about a heritage and a culture that was nearing extinction. Why aren't non Indian students trying to get into Indian Schools on the reservations? Isn't that discriminatory too? I mean in Indian School you learn about reading, writing and arithmetic, too, but you also learn about your culture, your history. IF there was room at KSBE to allow all qualified students of Hawaiian ancestry in, there certainly wouldn't be any room for the non-Hawaiian ones. So then you'd have to set up quotas. Is that any more fair or less discriminatory than the current admission policies at KBSE today?

Finally, remember that KSBE is a PRIVATE school that doesn't accept any money from the feds. Therefore, they should be able to administer their admission policies any way they danged well please.

Miulang

[Stephen]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

Muilang,
I'm not saying I disagree with keeping all boys schools all boys (and so on) or encouraging the integration at KSBE - my comment is to admit that it is discriminatory. That's it. Nothing more than an admission that it is discriminatory.

I will say that your last comment is pretty short sighted - being a private school doesn't allow a school to just do as they please. Obviously you are able to set up your own guidelines, etc, but it doesn't give you a right to bar a child of Japanese, or African or whatever ethnicity from attending. Imagine you opened a school and refused to enroll people of Hawaiian ancestry. . . .

Again, I'm not saying I'm against what KSBE is doing - I'm just looking for an Amen - I guess that's what I'm looking for. . . an Amen.
Stephen

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

And just like affirmative action, sometimes discrimination isn't a bad thing.

[Miulang]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

And just like affirmative action, sometimes discrimination isn't a bad thing.

And some people are more "equal" than others!

Miulang

[LikaNui]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

LikaNui, I believe most of the $6 billion in assets is tied up in land ownership - not cash money.

Well of course it is. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that. But the income from that real estate (and their other investments) is half a gazillion dollars a month.

[Miulang]

Re: Court rules against Kamehameha Schools admission policy

Muilang,

I will say that your last comment is pretty short sighted - being a private school doesn't allow a school to just do as they please. Obviously you are able to set up your own guidelines, etc, but it doesn't give you a right to bar a child of Japanese, or African or whatever ethnicity from attending. Imagine you opened a school and refused to enroll people of Hawaiian ancestry. . . .

Amen, BUT...also consider this: Hawai'i was a sovereign nation with treaties with several countries before it was illegally taken by the US in 1893. The kanaka maoli don't consider themselves American first; they consider themselves Hawaiian first...Americans second unlike most residents.

In 1993, the 103rd Joint Session of the US Senate & Congress issued a proclamation "...to acknowledge the 100th anniversary of the January 17, 1893 overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii, and to offer an apology to Native Hawaiians on behalf of the United States for the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii..." In other words, the US government apologized for taking the land away from the kanaka maoli.

"...The Congress -

(1) on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17, 1893, acknowledges the historical significance of this event which resulted in the suppression of the inherent sovereignty of the Native Hawaiian people;

(2) recognizes and commends efforts of reconciliation initiated by the State of Hawaii and the United Church of Christ with Native Hawaiians;

(3) apologizes to Native Hawaiians on behalf of the people of the United States for the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17, 1893 with the participation of agents and citizens of the United States, and the deprivation of the rights of Native Hawaiians to self-determination;

(4) expresses its commitment to acknowledge the ramifications of the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii, in order to provide a proper foundation for reconciliation between the United States and the Native Hawaiian people; and

(5) urges the President of the United States to also acknowledge the ramifications of the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii and to support reconciliation efforts between the United States and the Native Hawaiian people. ..."


Nothing has ever come out of that apology except more and more attempts to take even more away from the indigenous people of Hawai'i. Queen Liliuokalani relinquished the throne to spare her people from slaughter, not because she thought it would be the best thing for them. She was kept under house arrest...imagine if Queen Elizabeth was put under house arrest.

Miulang