Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

*sigh*

everyone wants to talk about the Will, but nobody wants to talk about the Will.

The school isn't just for Hawaiians.

Read the Will above.

And not just any Hawaiians are the intended population for the school.

But if you read any of KS' social service apologia that they espouse to support their admissions policies, it is evident that they are liars. 15% of admissions is based on orphaned and indigent criteria. But 100% of KS' defense is based on ethnic Hawaiian socio-economic factors.

How come noone is asking why that is?

[waioli kai]

then it won't. And justUS wins , Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

everyone wants to talk about the Will, but nobody wants to talk about the Will. The school isn't just for Hawaiians. Read the Will above.
And not just any Hawaiians are the intended population for the school.
But if you read any of KS' social service apologia that they espouse to support their admissions policies, it is evident that they are liars. 15% of admissions is based on orphaned and indigent criteria. But 100% of KS' defense is based on ethnic Hawaiian socio-economic factors.

How come noone is asking why that is?

Why aren't there more KS pre-, primary and secondary schools on all the islands? Why was Bishop Estate so incorrigibly corrupt for years leading up to Bronster's indictments of KS trustees, when the superior courts of the Republic, the Territory, the State had everything to do with the directorship of Bishop Estate? Things change for the better sometimes, remarkable as that is, and that's what happened with BE KS with the removal of Lindsay,et.al . KS had been supporting a spirit-sucking, revenue-sucking paracitism by directorship, for much of its existence.

We adults may not see the day that there are a sustainably healthful number and distribution of KS education centers on these islands, but such a goal has the now relatively parasite-free KS. Of course, if today's KS students aren't inclined to make it happen , then it won't. And justUS wins.

[Miulang]

Charter schools preserve native culture

Just as Kamehameha Schools are trying to instill in their students a sense of their cultural legacy, so are at least 53 Indian charter schools around the country.

Where Indian schools in the past were used to try to assimilate Native American students into the mainstream Caucasian culture, the new Indian schools are teaching students about the old ways, so that those ways don't disappear entirely.

I think this just enhances the richness of our society if indigenous kids can learn about their ancestors and their proud histories. And that is why Kamehameha Schools are so important to Hawai'i, too.

Indian schools, once a term connected to this country's history of using educational facilities to assimilate American Indians into a new society, are back under different circumstances. This time, the schools are becoming havens for the native culture, a place where the languages, music and arts -- all part of a heritage that has been slipping away over generations -- can live and grow.

The resurgence of Indian schools is attributed in part to the growing charter school movement. There are currently 53 Native American charter schools across the country, 31 of which are located on non-tribal lands, according to the Center for Education Reform.

And with American Indians having some of the highest dropout rates of any group in the nation's public schools, the charter schools and some private schools are there to help students meet their highest potential in a society that still often excludes them, said Lillian Sparks, executive director of the Washington-based National Indian Education Association. "Simply, many want more tribal control over our education," she said.

Miulang

[timkona]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Teaching "old ways" to help a student reach their highest potential.

Do you not see the cognitive dissonance??

Teaching history is fine. But remember, it's history. Believing that social progress is inherently bad presumes an inability for the average child to advance from fire-making to nuclear physics.

Some of those old ways will disappear entirely from everyday existence simply because better solutions come along. We no longer use buggy whips or drag our belongings on two log-poles behind a horse, or regularly sail canoes across the Pacific. Granted, all those things are fine and dandy pursuits, but we have other solutions nowadays. One of my great-grandmothers is said to have come across America in a Conestota Wagon. I tell the story to my daughter, but I won't teach her to build a Conestota Wagon. Instead, I teach her to pack a suitcase, and how to find your gate number at the airport.

The converse of this is also true. Good ideas and solutions have true staying power. They are often referred to as Cultural Universals, and become similar in all cultures as they are passed from generation to generation over eons. Basic sanitation, clean water, personal hygiene, and civility are some of the most common cultural universals.

Do not be afraid of the future. Or of better ideas and solutions. History is best learned when looking back. Life is best lived when reaching forward.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Teaching history is fine. But remember, it's history. Believing that social progress is inherently bad presumes an inability for the average child to advance from fire-making to nuclear physics.

Some of those old ways will disappear entirely from everyday existence simply because better solutions come along. We no longer use buggy whips or drag our belongings on two log-poles behind a horse, or regularly sail canoes across the Pacific.

Many "Great Societies" have risen and fallen in the times that Hawaiians populated these islands. Rome rose and fell around 400 AD. Hawaiians continued to flourish for 1300 years beyond the fall of Rome. Hundreds of other "great societies" fell during that same span. Even the United States is only 200 years old. History seem to suggest that the greats dynasties burn the brightest flames and die out the quickest as well.

Will America implode under its current debt? Will America collapse from the loss of production capabilities? Will Americas "diversity" end up creating Bosnian ethnic divisions? Will America collapse if its access to ever increasing volumes of oil is restricted?

There are many possibilities. I'm not predicting them necessarily. But if one or more occurs, the Molokai Hawaiian Fisherman will continue to live and live well with the "old ways" they know. You and you kind will initially starve and then, as history shows, probably become violent in order to survive.

Your way is not the only way.

Aloha

[timkona]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Rome rose and fell over the span of well over 800 years, starting after 750 BC and ending around 400 AD.

America has a problem competing in one particular area of the production equation - Labor Costs.

The US has been around for well over 300 years, in a loose social sort of way.

America might implode under debt load as mandatory entitlement spending increases to accomodate the aging Boomers.

New Energy Technologies are all around us right now. Consumers will slowly warm up to them as oil prices climb, and oil refining "roadblocks" increase.

"Diversity" in America is only a problem if a single language, in this case English, is no longer the unifying factor. See Eastern Europe for examples, as noted by Kam.

Praying for the revelation is just one strategy. Optimism is another option. The old ways are great, and should be taught. But not as the core curriculum in a straw-man effort to preserve culture, or promote mediocrity by shielding kids from failure.

Let's go fishing.

[TuNnL]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I wouldn't want my child to be a poster child for any political reason Not even RACISM if it means benefitting your child.

So by your argument St. Louis Schools are SEXIST, even if it means benefiting those children? And they should start admitting female students?

[damontucker]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I think private schools should be able to discriminate to the best of their abilities... that's why they are private.... they cater to who they want.

btw - Happy Kalua Pig Day TuNnL

[Miulang]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Teaching "old ways" to help a student reach their highest potential.

Do you not see the cognitive dissonance??

Teaching history is fine. But remember, it's history. Believing that social progress is inherently bad presumes an inability for the average child to advance from fire-making to nuclear physics.

Some of those old ways will disappear entirely from everyday existence simply because better solutions come along. We no longer use buggy whips or drag our belongings on two log-poles behind a horse, or regularly sail canoes across the Pacific. Granted, all those things are fine and dandy pursuits, but we have other solutions nowadays. One of my great-grandmothers is said to have come across America in a Conestota Wagon. I tell the story to my daughter, but I won't teach her to build a Conestota Wagon. Instead, I teach her to pack a suitcase, and how to find your gate number at the airport.

The converse of this is also true. Good ideas and solutions have true staying power. They are often referred to as Cultural Universals, and become similar in all cultures as they are passed from generation to generation over eons. Basic sanitation, clean water, personal hygiene, and civility are some of the most common cultural universals.

Do not be afraid of the future. Or of better ideas and solutions. History is best learned when looking back. Life is best lived when reaching forward.

Well, if the kids of the First People (including the kanaka maoli) of this country had not been subjugated by the Caucasian population and forced to learn English, forced to give up their culture and language and be socially and economically marginalized by the white culture, there would be no need for this kind of education, would there be?

The First People passed their history and language down orally. They had no need for the written word. When their kupuna/grandparents were looked down upon by the whites as being ignorant or low class, those traditions were banned and almost disappeared, except that there were some (like Pua'i's grandparents) who refused to let the embers of a proud nation be snuffed out. So they taught their children and grandchildren at home, in secret.

In Hawai'i, there would be no hula kahiko today if some kupuna had not decided that the past was something that should not be thrown away. It's the predominant US white culture that refuses to understand that indigenous people, who roamed our country way before the first white man set foot upon it, know lots more about how to relate to their environment than the rest of us ever will. They know that Nature is more powerful than any bulldozer. They know how the seasons affect the weather and the kinds of food that are abundant during those seasons. They know that they need to take care of their environment if they are to survive. "Modern" Americans haven't figured that part out yet, believing that human ingenuity or lots of money can tame anything. And that's why idiots build houses on the banks of rivers, or at the bottom of hills, for instance, only to have them destroyed by floods and landslides.

So like Kam says, if ever there is a crisis that totally isolates Hawai'i from the rest of the world, the people most likely to survive are people like the kanaka maoli of Moloka'i or Hana or Niihau, who in their "backward" ways, will be able to fish in the "old" way and grow taro for their families. And what's really cool is if you, as a white guy, go knocking at their door and tell them you're starving, my guess is you would be welcomed into their homes and given food. Would most Americans do this? I doubt it. Most Americans would let their neighbors go hungry if it meant that they would be deprived of their "full share" if they did offer assistance.

Your own "cognitive dissonance" is that you can't see that the old ways can be integrated into "modern" life to make a better society...one that teaches tolerance and respect for differences.

Miulang


P.S. it's Conestoga wagon, not "Conestota"

[craigwatanabe]

Re: then it won't. And justUS wins , Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Why aren't there more KS pre-, primary and secondary schools on all the islands? Why was Bishop Estate so incorrigibly corrupt for years leading up to Bronster's indictments of KS trustees, when the superior courts of the Republic, the Territory, the State had everything to do with the directorship of Bishop Estate? Things change for the better sometimes, remarkable as that is, and that's what happened with BE KS with the removal of Lindsay,et.al . KS had been supporting a spirit-sucking, revenue-sucking paracitism by directorship, for much of its existence.

We adults may not see the day that there are a sustainably healthful number and distribution of KS education centers on these islands, but such a goal has the now relatively parasite-free KS. Of course, if today's KS students aren't inclined to make it happen , then it won't. And justUS wins.

Students of KSBE are making change in their communities by continuing their high school education in college thru KSBE scholarships. My children are examples of that. My oldest boy is pursuing a career in public education by becoming a teacher, my second eldest boy is desiring to work in the field of geology here on the Big Island. Both are graduates of KSBE and attend the UH system under scholarships thru KSBE. My wife albeit not a graduate of KSBE has gotten her Masters in ECS (funded thru KSBE scholarships) working with impoverished families here on the Big Island mostly Hawaiian.

KSBE instills in all of it's graduates and scholarship awardees the desires and sometimes requirements of being stewards of their Aina and it's people.

As for the former trustees, yes they took a lot but it was what was allowed to them under state law. But under those trustees they took away the lottery system. In it's place admission to KSBE was based on the individual student's merits and desires to make a difference for the sake of the Hawaiian people.

Some of my Hawaiian friends who've graduated from KSBE during the lottery system barely made it out. Most of them never took advantage of the facilities and support KSBE was offering them and simply cut classes and never appreciated what was put in front of them.

If you had two children and could only afford to send one child to college where one was a deadbeat kid who only wanted to goof off and spend his time doing nothing while the other was trying to better his life by getting good grades and doing public service, who would you pick to invest in?

You choose the deadbeat child and he may decide to take advantage of this offer of betterment at the cost of depriving the child who deserved to get a higher education. Or you can spend it on that child who desired to advance his education and let that child help the deadbeat child become a productive citizen.

When those trustees abandoned the lottery system they figured the trust money be best spent in helping those who want to make a difference, but were also told to use that knowledge to help their fellow Hawaiians once they've attained their position in knowledge. And it's working. KSBE students have become leaders and educators here in Hawaii.

Some of my other KSBE friends who barely made it out are Opala pickers and such. These flunkies took a viable slot at KSBE and wasted viable resources where some other kid who never got in but deserved to had to settle for less elsewhere.

And KSBE is on all islands. You only look at the three campuses on Oahu Maui and the Big Island but fail to look at the programs offered at all Hawaii public schools that offer Hawaiiana courses funded thru KSBE. You fail to look at all the pre-schools, and public schools that are located in predominately Hawaiian neighborhoods that get funding thru KSBE. You fail to look at all Public Charter Schools that have Hawaiian cultural curricullum that get funding thru KSBE.

You fail to look at all the community service and subsidy programs that KSBE funds that promote the Hawaiian culture and the preservation of Hawaiian People.

All of this funding is STATEWIDE on ALL ISLANDS. But you only look at the three campuses and think that's all that KSBE does!

All of this was happening even during the time of the corrupt trustees! The replacement trustees only continued and improved on this fact.

KSBE also hosts many functions that allow a collaberation of Native Hawaiian non-profits to work together and form alliances where greater resources can be attained for the betterment of the Kanaka Maoli. They assists even such groups as Alu Like, Kini Popo and others. They help Hawaiian immersion schools with funding, offering their campuses for meetings and cultural events.

KSBE's presence is all over this state on all islands. BUT what KSBE doesn't want to do is to come into these programs and run them. Because it would set the wrong precedence of bullying in and taking control of smaller independent Hawaiian studies programs. KSBE offers their support of their programs and provides additional funding and facility support for their goals.

Even non-Hawaiian programs that have Hawaiians in them like the US. Swim Club (across America) uses the swimming pools of KSBE for their practice and meets.

KSBE is doing more for all Hawaiians than most people are willing to see. It's not just about the campuses, it's all about how the monies are being utilized for the benefit of all Hawaiians. Their outreach programs and community services are probably helping those who don't even realize it. BUT KSBE isn't going out and gloat about it, that's not what charity is all about.

SO GO AHEAD AND BLAST KSBE all you want. Your efforts will probably tear down this fine institution and the net effect will be the demise for all Hawaiians when funding stops. And it doesn't stop there. Public schools get funding thru KSBE as well for schools such as Waianae High School and even schools way out here on the Big Island such as Pahoa High School where there is a greater proportion of Hawaiian students in their student body.

You want to see what KSBE is all about and I mean ALL ABOUT? I then invite you to see it and read it right here: http://www.ksbe.edu/

Notice the extension in their URL? EDU as in education! This isn't some business who's only desire is to make money. As Kekoa Paulson once told me at a KSBE function, "most don't realize that KSBE is Asset rich yet cash strapped". Yes KSBE has lots of money but it's tied up in equity and when KSBE is forced to sell it's lease hold lands to private developers and homeowners, it hurts all Hawaiians because these lands were held in trust for the benefit of all Hawaiians, now KSBE is being forced to sell these lands.

So what do you do with the profits from the sale? Invest it in other ventures that can reap profits that can be used for the sake of Princess Pauahi's vision...that's what.

KSBE has desired to keep Hawaiian Lands in Hawaiian Hands but certain people felt otherwise and slowly the assets of KSBE are being diminished by landowners who knowingly bought homes on leased lands and now when the leases are running out they are crying bloody murder. They knew their time was going to run out but no they cry to their lawyers and sue to take away lands meant for the sake of the Hawaiian nation. Slowly there will be no Hawaiian lands because it will be bought up by everyone else.

KSBE rich? Only in assets and those assets are slowly evaporating as the laws of the land force KSBE to relinquish rightfully owned Hawaiian lands to outsiders.

So go ahead and undermine KSBE see what good will come out of that. Nothing that's all!

IMUA Kamehameha!!

[brianca]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Well, if the kids of the First People (including the kanaka maoli) of this country had not been subjugated by the Caucasian population and forced to learn English, forced to give up their culture and language and be socially and economically marginalized by the white culture, there would be no need for this kind of education, would there be?

The First People passed their history and language down orally. They had no need for the written word. When their kupuna/grandparents were looked down upon by the whites as being ignorant or low class, those traditions were banned and almost disappeared, except that there were some (like Pua'i's grandparents) who refused to let the embers of a proud nation be snuffed out. So they taught their children and grandchildren at home, in secret.

In Hawai'i, there would be no hula kahiko today if some kupuna had not decided that the past was something that should not be thrown away. It's the predominant US white culture that refuses to understand that indigenous people, who roamed our country way before the first white man set foot upon it, know lots more about how to relate to their environment than the rest of us ever will. They know that Nature is more powerful than any bulldozer. They know how the seasons affect the weather and the kinds of food that are abundant during those seasons. They know that they need to take care of their environment if they are to survive. "Modern" Americans haven't figured that part out yet, believing that human ingenuity or lots of money can tame anything. And that's why idiots build houses on the banks of rivers, or at the bottom of hills, for instance, only to have them destroyed by floods and landslides.

So like Kam says, if ever there is a crisis that totally isolates Hawai'i from the rest of the world, the people most likely to survive are people like the kanaka maoli of Moloka'i or Hana or Niihau, who in their "backward" ways, will be able to fish in the "old" way and grow taro for their families. And what's really cool is if you, as a white guy, go knocking at their door and tell them you're starving, my guess is you would be welcomed into their homes and given food. Would most Americans do this? I doubt it. Most Americans would let their neighbors go hungry if it meant that they would be deprived of their "full share" if they did offer assistance.

Your own "cognitive dissonance" is that you can't see that the old ways can be integrated into "modern" life to make a better society...one that teaches tolerance and respect for differences.

Miulang


P.S. it's Conestoga wagon, not "Conestota"

Do you live your life by he old ways of the earlier Hawaiian people? There is nothing preventing people here from joining Bumpy in his ideas of bringing back the old ways. The arguments about it would hold more merit if more people were willing to do so. I think how you live your life is a good test of what you believe. People who want to return to the old ways can do so in large part, but most chose not to do so.

[brianca]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I think private schools should be able to discriminate to the best of their abilities... that's why they are private.... they cater to who they want.

I couldn't agree more.

[Miulang]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

Do you live your life by he old ways of the earlier Hawaiian people? There is nothing preventing people here from joining Bumpy in his ideas of bringing back the old ways. The arguments about it would hold more merit if more people were willing to do so. I think how you live your life is a good test of what you believe. People who want to return to the old ways can do so in large part, but most chose not to do so.

I'm not kanaka maoli, but I have certainly learned a few things from the kanaka maoli and the First Nation peoples about respecting the land and its resources! And yes, I admire Bumpy and anybody else who wants to perserve the old ways. When I return to Hawai'i for good, and if I can move into my family's second house which is on some acreage, I would love to cultivate native Hawaiian plants and grow some of my own food.

Look, too, at the Amish. They live very simply (some might call them primitive) and yet they seem to have far better values than we do when it comes to accepting fate, being peaceful, learning to live within their means and being self-sufficient. They don't have electricity in their homes, don't drive cars and look at their reaction to that tragic massacre of their children: they forgave the killer and have embraced his family by providing financial support for them.

Miulang

[brianca]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

I'm not kanaka maoli

why does that prevent you from living by those ways?

I think it's a false idea that the primitive nature of the amish life creates the morals that they live by. They have both in spades, but there is not a causality there. The same source, namely spirituality, drives them to both things rather than one of them to the other.

I think as the world shrinks, we will all continue to become more alike. some wonderful things will be lost and some wonderful things will be gained. Such is life. Things change, always. It's been true throughout the history of Hawaii and the rest of the world. Learning to accept those changes while remembering our history so that we may not repeat our mistakes is a very fine line. People pushing too far to either extreme disturb the flow of nature, and are fighting against a foe they will never defeat. Only misery comes from that.

I completely support bumpy's right to what he's doing, and I think it's great for him and his followers. Like I said above, I think more people who talk much about the issue should join up. If all of the people fighting for the movement would give up their land to the greater cause and return to simple living, they would be away from the things that bother them, and may find real happiness.

[Miulang]

Re: Kamehameha Schools Admissions Policy - Chapter 3

why does that prevent you from living by those ways?

I think it's a false idea that the primitive nature of the amish life creates the morals that they live by. They have both in spades, but there is not a causality there. The same source, namely spirituality, drives them to both things rather than one of them to the other.

I think as the world shrinks, we will all continue to become more alike. some wonderful things will be lost and some wonderful things will be gained. Such is life. Things change, always. It's been true throughout the history of Hawaii and the rest of the world. Learning to accept those changes while remembering our history so that we may not repeat our mistakes is a very fine line. People pushing too far to either extreme disturb the flow of nature, and are fighting against a foe they will never defeat. Only misery comes from that.

I completely support bumpy's right to what he's doing, and I think it's great for him and his followers. Like I said above, I think more people who talk much about the issue should join up. If all of the people fighting for the movement would give up their land to the greater cause and return to simple living, they would be away from the things that bother them, and may find real happiness.

Given where I am living today (in a city) I do whatever I can to conserve resources and respect the land...I recycle almost everything (except for food garbage), I try to buy food that is grown locally, I try to buy as much as I can from the small business people who have shops right down the street from where I live. And when it comes to survival, I know how to make a fire without using a match or lighter. There are many people on the Big Island who may not be kanaka maoli who "live off the grid"; when I move back to Hawai'i, that's what I'll try to do too.

People who live on CONUS have a little more luxury as far as having access to sources for basic necessities like food and water than the people of Hawai'i do. That's why I worry about what would happen if the next shipping strike is 4 months long, or if transportation to Hawai'i was cut off.

And believe it or not, most indigenous people are VERY spiritual. Maybe that's their saving grace. But it's not spirituality that's tied to a human-looking god per se; their amakua are always animals or some form of nature. To indigenous people everywhere, the land, the water, the air IS god.

Miulang