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pzarquon
May 10th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Gabbard staking claim on Case's Congress seat (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/May/10/ln/ln03a.html)
Honolulu Advertiser, May 10, 2004
The race between Rep. Ed Case and Honolulu councilman Mike Gabbard for Case's 2nd Congressional District seat won't be friendly.Is Gabbard " a single-issue Republican who views the world through a right-wing extremist prism"? Is Case "an ineffective same-sex marriage supporter posing as a moderate Democrat"? Does the second question give the answer to the first?

I like Case. The fact that he lost his bid for governor just gave him the chance to seek a higher office. And what I've seen so far, I like (urban Honolulu dweller though I am). I have no idea if there are better candidates out there, but speaking personally, I'm pretty sure Gabbard isn't one of them.

Glen Miyashiro
May 10th, 2004, 10:57 AM
Gabbard staking claim on Case's Congress seat (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/May/10/ln/ln03a.html)
Honolulu Advertiser, May 10, 2004 Is Gabbard "a single-issue Republican who views the world through a right-wing extremist prism"? Is Case "an ineffective same-sex marriage supporter posing as a moderate Democrat"? Does the second question give the answer to the first?

I like Case. The fact that he lost his bid for governor just gave him the chance to seek a higher office. And what I've seen so far, I like (urban Honolulu dweller though I am). I have no idea if there are better candidates out there, but speaking personally, I'm pretty sure Gabbard isn't one of them.

Hmm, let's see. Since 1971, the 2nd Congressional District has been represented by Dan Akaka, Spark Matsunaga, Patsy Mink, and now Ed Case. Somehow I don't think Mike Gabbard fits in the mold of what CD2 voters are looking for. As another Honolulu townie, I can't vote in this one but I sure can give Case support. I rooted for him for governor, and I'd much rather have him in Congress than Gabbard.

YoungNeil
May 12th, 2004, 04:57 PM
One Trick Pony.

BKHale2007
June 28th, 2004, 08:13 AM
I think it's going to be a very close race.

BKHale2007
July 15th, 2004, 06:41 AM
Case is stepping up his campaign in East Hawaii, with headquarters in the Hilo Shopping Center.

mel
July 15th, 2004, 06:53 AM
I like Case. The fact that he lost his bid for governor just gave him the chance to seek a higher office. And what I've seen so far, I like (urban Honolulu dweller though I am). I have no idea if there are better candidates out there, but speaking personally, I'm pretty sure Gabbard isn't one of them.

Now that you live out in Mililani, I think that community may be in the 2nd Congressional district. So you may be eligible to vote in this race if you notify the elections office of your new residence. You should have gotten a yellow voter card in the mail a month or so ago. There is a voter registration update postcard that you can send in to notify them of your change of address.

pzarquon
July 15th, 2004, 07:44 AM
Wow, Mel, thanks! It hadn't even occurred to me. I planned to update my voter registration (http://www.hawaii.gov/elections/) information now that we've moved, of course, but the fact that it might allow me to cast a vote in this particular race is a great plus.

pzarquon
July 30th, 2004, 01:06 PM
Erika Engle's post in a Honolulu Weekly thread (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=1694) reminded me of this unusual letter that Ed Case's campaign sent out, directly challenging Mike Gabbard to "Please Answer Basic Questions About Yourself Now."

I figured I'd pull it up and post it here for the curious. It's basically a resume fact check, some of the questions I never thought to ask but am now very interested in hearing the answers to. It's long so I'll nest it for the impatient. Just click the "Show Spoiler" button for the full text!


July 21, 2004

Dear Mike:

The candidate filing deadline has passed and you are asking over 600,000 of Hawaii's people to represent them in our nation's highest legislative body. I trust you agree that the voters of the Second District are entitled to know exactly who you are, where you come from, what you've done, why you believe you're qualified, and what you propose to do.

You have provided virtually no details on your background, experience, beliefs, qualifications, or accomplishments to date, nor on your positions and proposed actions. You have also declined to talk directly with the media, instead requiring that they e-mail you their questions.

Here are some questions that any voter would want answered and that arise from your campaign literature and other information. Please respond to me with your answers to all at your earliest opportunity.

Background

1. Where and when were you born?

2. Who were your parents and where were they from?

3. You've stated that your father was in the Air Force; what was his rank, and what were his postings and when?

4. Your website implies that your father was a pilot; was he and, if so, what did he pilot?

5. Where did you live growing up and when?

6. What schools did you attend, what high school did you graduate from, and where and when?

7. You've stated that you joined a Catholic seminary at 14; which one, where, and how long did you stay?

8. You've stated that you had a surfing accident at 17; where?

9. You've stated that you tried to enlist in the military in 1965; what branch and where?

10. Since your graduation from high school, where have you lived, when, and what employment have you had during each period?

11. During what years have you lived in Hawaii fulltime and where?

Family

12. How many children do you have?

13. What are their names and ages?

14. Where are they living and what are they doing?

Education

15. You've stated that you have a "BA in English from Sonoma State University”; what years were you enrolled there and when did you receive your degree?

16. You've stated that you have an "MA in Community College Administration from Oregon State University"; what years were you enrolled there and when did you receive your degree?

17. OSU doesn't appear to offer an MA in "Community College Administration"; please confirm the degree you received.

18. What other schools have you attended, and do you have any other educational qualifications?

Experience

19. You've stated that you have "devoted 20 years to education"; at which schools have you worked, during which years, and what were your job titles and responsibilities?

20. You've stated that you're a "longtime educator/teacher"; at which schools have you worked, during which years, and what were your job titles and responsibilities?

21. You've stated that you've "worked with young people as a teacher, guidance counselor, college administrator and coach"; at exactly which schools, during which years, and what were your job titles and responsibilities?

22. You've stated that you were affiliated with the " Ponomauloa School" in Wahiawa; what type of school was that, what years was it in existence, and what were your responsibilities and in what years?

23. You've stated that you "know the challenges of running your own business"; exactly what businesses have you owned or operated, where were they located, and what was your specific role with each and in what years?

24. You've stated that you are a "small business advocate"; exactly when and in what ways?

25. What other business or professional experience do you have?

Religion

26. You have implied that you are or have been a Catholic; are or were you, when, and what church if any do you currently attend?

27. Are you or have you been a follower of the religion sometimes called Vaisnava or Vaishava, and have you worshiped or do you worship Lord Brahma or Lord Vishnu?

28. Do you follow or have you followed the teachings of the Vedas?

29. Are you or have you been a follower of Chris Butler, also referred to as Jagad Guru, Siddha Swarupa Ananda, or Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa?

30. What is or has been your relationship with any of the Science of Identity Foundation, Identity Institute International, the International Society for Khrishna Consciousness, or Down to Earth Inc.?

Government Experience

31. What specific government experience did you have, and when, prior to your current service on the Honolulu City Council?

32. Did you work for former State Senator Rick Reed?

33. What do you regard as your five primary accomplishments during your year-and-a-half of service on the Honolulu City Council?

34. You've stated that our "major challenges are improving education, protecting our environment, winning the war on terrorism, and strengthening our economy." What exactly have you done to address each such challenge during your service on the Council?

35. You've cited the following as major issues: "a balanced budget; education; national security and the war on terrorism; affordable housing; war on drugs/ice; transportation infrastructure; environmental protection; Native Hawaiian concerns; health and senior care." What exactly have you done to address each such challenge during your service on the Council?

36. You've stated that you have "worked statewide to help combat drugs"; exactly how and when?

Second District Experience

37. During which years have you lived fulltime in the Second Congressional District and where?

38. What specific actions do you cite as providing you with knowledge and experience with respect to the Second Congressional District?

Awards/Recognition

39. What specific awards or recognition have you received, from whom, and when, for your government, community or personal service?

Platform/Proposed Actions

40. You've stated that our "major challenges are improving education, protecting our environment, winning the war on terrorism, and strengthening our economy." What exactly do you propose to do to address each such challenge?

41. You've cited the following as major issues: "a balanced budget; education; national security and the war on terrorism; affordable housing; war on drugs/ice; transportation infrastructure; environmental protection; Native Hawaiian concerns; health and senior care." What exactly do you propose to do to address each such challenge?

42. Exactly what else do you propose to do to represent the people of the Second Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives?

Overall

43. What other details can or will you provide with respect to your qualifications to serve Hawaii's Second Congressional District in the U.S. House?

With aloha,

Ed Case

Linkmeister
July 30th, 2004, 02:11 PM
Other than the "are you now or have you ever been" tone of the religious questions, none of those strike me as unfair. Good for Ed.

pzarquon
July 30th, 2004, 02:24 PM
That definitely strikes me as where The Point is in the whole exercise... couched in a few "tell us about your daddy" softballs. I don't think they're out of line, though. He invokes Catholicism rather prominently (http://www.mikegabbard.com/popup.php?bcid=146), but then doesn't really say much about how his faith played a role in the years after his teens. The big chapter on the same-sex marriage battle (http://www.mikegabbard.com/popup.php?bcid=150) is curiously devoid of the religious angle.

Further reviewing Gabbard's website, there's a correction (http://www.mikegabbard.com/popup.php?bcid=148) to one chapter, and notes that several others are incomplete: "More coming soon." Details are remarkably scarce, for would-be fact checkers.

Ed Case's calls for clarification of his experience as an educator are similarly strong, I think, and probably easier to clear up... one hopes. After all, when his wife pulled out of her run for office, she invoked the "Mike as Experience Educator" image quite a bit. I hope it's more than his degree.

He notes his experience as a "teacher, guidance counselor, college administrator, and coach." Surely even a basic CV could give us schools and dates?

Linkmeister
July 30th, 2004, 04:44 PM
One would think a CV would clear up the employment and education questions, although there've been a few cases in the national news of fraudulent resumes (remember the Notre Dame coach a while back?).

I had a naughty thought this afternoon, speaking of running against Republicans. It occurred to me that if I were running, I'd simply ask this question to my audience:

"My opponent is a member of the same party as GWB, Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, Tom Delay and Newt Gingrich. Is their philosophy one you want to elect here in Honolulu?"

That's an open-source question, Democrats. If you want it, take it. ;)

BKHale2007
July 31st, 2004, 02:23 PM
Gabbard wonders if Case himself wrote the letter and Mike Peters, a former legislative aide at the State Capitol, questions Case about his record.

(http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f757f250-8580-42a6-a154-9ed53d338cfd)

(http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f0a1a402-b66b-4e41-89d4-39be40f832b7)

Linkmeister
July 31st, 2004, 03:50 PM
Gabbard wonders if Case himself wrote the letter and Mike Peters, a former legislative aide at the State Capitol, questions Case about his record.

(http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f757f250-8580-42a6-a154-9ed53d338cfd)

(http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f0a1a402-b66b-4e41-89d4-39be40f832b7)

Dear Mr. Gabbard,
What's it matter who wrote the letter? The questions are fair and valid; please respond.

Sincerely,
The Voters

pzarquon
August 1st, 2004, 06:12 AM
Gabbard wonders if Case himself wrote the letter Translation: Gabbard hopes to dodge the questions - questions a taxpayer could have easily asked as well - by coming up with a ridiculous reason not to answer them. The best part is, if Case gives Gabbard a ring (though I doubt he would - I wouldn't), Gabbard will either fail to report it or use it as a launching pad for the next ridiculous excuse ("He didn't say please! Cleary Case is an unprofessional politician who...").

Would he feel better if a constituent rewrote the survey and submitted it again? Sheesh.


Mike Peters, a former legislative aide at the State Capitol, questions Case about his record. Oh, this was my favorite. He reviewed Case's record, point by point, like any good opposition researcher would... completely blind to the fact that the entire basis for his analysis was a call for his candidate to clarify his utter and total lack of any record whatsoever.

It doesn't look good for Gabbard. If it ever did.

Linkmeister
August 1st, 2004, 07:28 AM
Turns out Case can pick up the latest edition of Honolulu magazine; a lot of those biographical questions are answered in a story there. (Caution: this is the same issue that has the annual restaurant guide, so it feels like Modern Bride when you pick it up.)

pzarquon
August 1st, 2004, 02:26 PM
Could you post the excerpts relevant to his academic credentials? Has he reaffirmed his alignment with a Christian church?

I have a Honolulu subscription but it goes to a P.O. Box that's now considerably further away from where I live than it used to be. :) I don't get out there too often.

Meanwhile, Case has fired off a follow-up to his first letter, this one tackling Gabbard's City Council record. Click the "Show Spoiler" button for every word.

Dear Mike:

Ten days have passed since my July 21st letter asking you to answer some basic questions about your background, education, experience, platform, and other matters any voter would want to know, but you have declined to provide any responses. There are just 48 days left to your contested primary election and 93 days to general election day; how much longer do you intend to keep the voters in the dark?

Your sole government experience is your past 19 months on the Honolulu City Council, which is responsible for the well-being of the citizens of the City and County of Honolulu (encompassing the Island of O'ahu). I hope you will agree that voters are entitled to basic information on what you have or haven't done as a councilmember in making their decision on your current candidacy. Here are some basic questions on that record:

1. What do you regard as your five primary accomplishments during your council service?

2. You've stated that our "major challenges are improving education, protecting our environment, winning the war on terrorism, and strengthening our economy." What specifically have you done to address each of these challenges during your service on the Council?

3. You've cited the following as major issues: "a balanced budget; education; national security and the war on terrorism; affordable housing; war on drugs/ice; transportation infrastructure; environmental protection; Native Hawaiian concerns; health and senior care." What specifically have you done to address each of these challenges during your service on the Council?

4. From January through October 2003 you were Chair of the Council's Public Works Committee, responsible for O'ahu 's sewers, trash, drainage, roads, water, air, utilities construction and other infrastructure. What specific initiatives did you pursue as chair to maintain and improve O'ahu 's infrastructure and what was the result?

5. O'ahu 's sewage system is in crisis mode. What specific initiatives did you pursue as Public Works chair to fix our sewers and what was the result?

6. O'ahu 's roads are in disrepair. What specific initiatives did you pursue as Public Works chair to fix our roads and what was the result?

7. From October 2003 through the present you have served as Chair of the Council's Parks Committee, responsible for O'ahu 's parks, golf courses, gardens, auditoriums and zoo. What specific initiatives have you pursued as chair to maintain and improve O'ahu 's recreational facilities and what was the result?

8. O'ahu 's parks are in disrepair. What specific initiatives have you pursued to fix our parks and what was the result?

9. Please confirm that, during your tenure on the City Council, you voted to increase city fees, taxes and fares for park use, Hanauma Bay admission, TheBus (twice), trash disposal (tip fee), building permits, zoning applications, sewer hookup, car registration, car weight tax, real property and others.

10. Please confirm that you voted for the Council's proposed Fiscal Year 2004 and Fiscal Year 2005 budgets, both of which relied on substantial increases in City taxes, fees, fares and other revenue sources.

11. Your council district (Ewa Beach through Wai'anae), most of which I represent in Congress, has some of the most challenging and pressing needs in our state. What do you regard as your five primary initiatives for your council district, and your five primary district accomplishments?

12. The economy and small business is a major challenge in our district. What specifically have you done to address this challenge?

13. Agriculture is an important but endangered component of the economy and lifestyle of our district. What specifically have you done to preserve agricultural lands and help farmers and ranchers?

14. Education is a major challenge in our district. What specifically have you done to address this challenge?

15. Our district has one of the highest proportions of Native Hawaiians in the state. What specifically have you done to address the specific needs of Native Hawaiians?

16. Transportation and specifically traffic is a major challenge in our district. What specifically have you done to address this challenge?

17. Health care is a major challenge in our district. What specifically have you done to address this challenge?

18. Affordable housing is a major challenge in our district. What specifically have you done to address this challenge?

19. The overall infrastructure of our district is aging and deteriorating. What specific district capital improvement project (CIP) requests have you introduced or requested, and which of these requests were approved?

20. Crime and drug abuse, especially ice, is at crisis levels in our district. What specifically have you done to address this challenge?

21. Our district has among the lowest income levels and highest social needs in our state. What specifically have you done to assist those in need?

22. How many regular district community meetings have you scheduled as your district's councilmember and personally attended? Please note that this refers only to those you actually attended, as opposed to those scheduled and canceled, or those scheduled and where someone else represented you.

23. Please disclose the details of the following: (a) your use of your personal contingency allowance; (b) your travel reports including travel expense reimbursements; and (c) your disclosure of financial interest statements.

24. Please provide any other information that would assist any voter in fairly evaluating your 19 months of government service.

With aloha,

Ed Case

Not half as effective as the first letter, especially given the number of questions Case already knows the answer to. I have to admit, now that Case has gone with this gimmick twice, it looks less strategic and more desperate.

That's not to say Case doesn't have my vote. But the man should really be doing better than this.

Linkmeister
August 2nd, 2004, 07:42 AM
Not half as effective as the first letter, especially given the number of questions Case already knows the answer to. I have to admit, now that Case has gone with this gimmick twice, it looks less strategic and more desperate.

I disagree. I think this is meant to go to the public for it to chew over; the fact that Case may know the answers doesn't mean the voters do. But hey, neither of us is a paid political consultant, so we can opine all we want, right? ;)

I'll try to condense the academic stuff a little later today and post it.

Linkmeister
August 2nd, 2004, 02:43 PM
Ok, pzarquon and all you other District 2 voters. Here's a brief summary of the relevant background portions of the Honolulu magazine article, Aug. 2004, pp. 34-38. If it's enclosed in quotation marks it's direct from the article; if it's not, it's my paraphrasing.


"Gabbard was born in Samoa in 1948, one of eight children in a military family. The Gabbards relocated to Hawai'i when he was a child. He received a bachelor's in English from Sonoma State University and a master's in community college administration from Oregon State.

"In the late '70s he worked as head tennis pro at Kuilima Hyatt Resort (now Turtle Bay Resort). From 1980 to 1983, he was a dean at American Samoa Community College before moving back to Hawai'i with his family. Gabbard and his wife, Carol, established a small private school in Wahiawa, which closed after five years. The couple homeschooled all their five children. In the late 1980s, the Gabbards, opened the Natural Deli, a vegetarian restaurant within Moilili's Down to Earth Natural Food Store. Today he distributes air and water purifying systems and nutritional supplements and owns a small confection company."

[snip]

"In the early '90s, he founded an educational nonprofit called Stop Promoting Homosexuality and bought airtime at local radio station KGU for a show called Let's Talk Straight Hawai'i."

[snip]

"Gay rights activists picketed his deli, and Down to Earth eventually bought out Gabbard's business. The station pulled the plug on his radio program."

[snip]

"But Gabbard had strong ties to an obscure Hare Krishna splinter group that, in the late 1970s, fielded several political candidates."

The Hawai'i Christian Coalition links to Gabbard's website. By law it can't endorse, but it can publish voters' guides. Gabbard's site informs churches what political activities are acceptable for them under election law.

He says he's Catholic and attends services regularly.

The splinter group was founded by Chris Butler (possible Google search there). Butler's group (it had several names, including Hare Name Society, Identity Institute, and Science of Identity Foundation) broke away from ISKCON, the overarching Krishna outfit, and is/was apparently pretty controversial. Both Gabbard and his wife were listed as teachers at the SOIF in Polk's Directory within the past decade.

Some of those folks formed the Independents for Godly Government. One of the candidates they offered was Wayne Nishiki, current Maui councilman; another was Kathy Hoshijo, who picked up 17% of votes in the race for Congress (note: unclear which race for Congress...the runoff for Patsy's seat or the subsequent one).

Gabbard and wife worked for Rick Reed (former Maui senator of Inouye 1992 smear fame).

Pick up the magazine for the balance of the article.

BKHale2007
August 2nd, 2004, 02:58 PM
Although I'm doing some belated spring cleaning and am trying to limit the number of magazines I get, I'll try to pick up Honolulu Magazine. People just don't know.

BKHale2007
August 2nd, 2004, 06:32 PM
Case, Gabbard Congressional Race Heats Up: Case Demanding Answers, Gabbard Not Giving Them

U.S. Rep. Ed Case, D-Hawaii, Second District, has sent his main opponent in the 2004 U.S. House race, City Council Member Mike Gabbard, two letters asking for more information on his background.

"Open Letter to Mike Gabbard from Ed Case"

"Case To Gabbard: Basic Questions On Your City Council Record"

The letters ask simple questions about Gabbard’s background, family life and voting record in the Honolulu City Council – facts that Gabbard has not addressed on his Web site or in the media. Gabbard also has asked the media with questions to send them by email because of his busy schedule rather than discuss them by phone or in person.

In response to the letters from Case, Gabbard sent two short emails to HawaiiReporter.com saying he wanted to ensure the letters actually came from Case, and his most recent letter sent yesterday, says he will decide how to respond to the first and second letter after Case answers his questions. The emails from Gabbard are below.

Below are two emails I’ve sent Ed Case. I’ll decide how I will respond once Case answers my question about the email list of people who received his questions/accusations.

Dear Rep. Case,

You have not answered my question as to whether or not you will give me the email list of the people to whom you sent your first list of questions/accusations. There is no use answering your questions if I am not able to get them to the people who received your questions/accusations. So if you are sincere, please confirm that you will send me the email list so that I can be assured the people who received your questions/accusations will receive my uncensored answers.

With warm aloha, Mike

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:43:06 -1000

From: Mike Gabbard

To: Ed Case

Aloha Ed. Thanks for confirming (that you sent that letter). By the way, before I spend time answering/replying to your "questions," I'd want assurance that the same people you sent your letter to (30,000 email list?) will receive my answers/reply uncensored.

Konaguy
August 2nd, 2004, 06:47 PM
Where I live in Kailua-Kona I have only seen Mike Gabbard political signs
in front of peoples houses until tonight when I noticed someone put out
some Ed Case signs.

Linkmeister
August 2nd, 2004, 08:00 PM
Dear Rep. Case,

You have not answered my question as to whether or not you will give me the email list of the people to whom you sent your first list of questions/accusations. There is no use answering your questions if I am not able to get them to the people who received your questions/accusations. So if you are sincere, please confirm that you will send me the email list so that I can be assured the people who received your questions/accusations will receive my uncensored answers.

With warm aloha, Mike

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:43:06 -1000

From: Mike Gabbard

To: Ed Case

Aloha Ed. Thanks for confirming (that you sent that letter). By the way, before I spend time answering/replying to your "questions," I'd want assurance that the same people you sent your letter to (30,000 email list?) will receive my answers/reply uncensored.

You know, that's a request worthy of Karl Rove and the Bush Administration. "If you'll just turn your mailing list over to me I'll be happy to answer your questions."

I wonder how you say chutzpah in Hindi?

Glen Miyashiro
August 9th, 2004, 11:32 AM
Speaking of Hindi and the Gabbards, I had always assumed that Tulsi Gabbard's name was Samoan or something, but a quick Google finds that "tulsi" is an Hindi name for the basil plant. Another bit of data about Gabbard's affinity to things Indian.

pzarquon
August 9th, 2004, 08:33 PM
The ever prolific Ed Case PR machine crowed today about the Star-Bulletin poll of likely second district voters (http://starbulletin.com/2004/08/09/news/story2.html), but they wouldn't deign to even mention Gabbard's name, simply referring to "an opponent" coming in second at 18 percent to Case's 67 percent.

Perhaps giving up any remaining shred of hip, self-aware irony, this paragraph was particularly entertaining.

Case: "I also see that my opponent is going negative fast, as he can only say negative things about me and continues to refuse to say who he is, what he's done, what he stands for, and how he would represent all of 600,000 Hawaii citizens in Congress. He and his mentors and supporters are old pros at misrepresentation, obfuscation, diversion and outright vicious campaigning, and I'm afraid that with this poll showing him this far behind at this stage in the campaign we'll see his true colors real fast."Emphasis added. Admittedly, I'm living in a bit of a bubble these days, but in the Case v. Gabbard race, I'm mostly hearing from Case, and most of what I'm hearing would qualify as negative.

Pot, meet kettle...

Seriously, Case absolutely has my vote, but he's doing himself a disservice giving Gabbard so much attention, and doing it so badly.

BKHale2007
August 9th, 2004, 09:06 PM
Because of this (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=Ed+Case+jones+Act), I'm not automatically going to vote for Case. I wonder what John Gentile has to offer.

BKHale2007
August 9th, 2004, 10:29 PM
John Gentile's site. (http://www.johnforhawaii.com/pages/issues_summary.html) He seems like a greener Democrat. It may be a longshot, but what if he wins the primary?

pzarquon
August 10th, 2004, 05:34 AM
I'm not sure I'm reading the search results correctly, but are you saying you're not voting for Case because he's in favor of weakening or eliminating the Jones Act? I've never been a fan of the Jones Act, but have never heard a local argument in favor of it, if you'd be willing to enlighten me.

As for John Gentile, he seems a nice enough guy, and has a simple site with his key platform issues put right up front... but is he campaigning anywhere outside of the Big Island?

BKHale2007
August 10th, 2004, 06:45 AM
The Jones Act (also known as The Merchant Marine Act of 1920)

On Ed Case's introduction of three bills in 2003, two of which specifically exempt Hawaii from parts of the Jones Act
http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2003/07/21/daily37.html

On Jones Act Reform
http://www.lcaships.com/janews.html

Includes a letter to Ed Case about his bills
http://www.mctf.com/

Jones Act text
http://www.insuremarine.com/WC/jonestext.html

Repeal or significant change to the Jones Act could mean foreign shippers can move between two U.S. ports without employing American workers, without paying taxes, and without complying with U.S. safety and environmental laws. The Jones Act has been blamed unfairly for the high cost of some goods in Hawaii, but shipping costs have actually gone down. http://www.mctf.com/caseletter.htm
And the freight cost is only a small portion of what consumers pay.

mel
August 10th, 2004, 09:51 AM
The Jones Act (also known as The Merchant Marine Act of 1920)

Repeal or significant change to the Jones Act could mean foreign shippers can move between two U.S. ports without employing American workers, without paying taxes, and without complying with U.S. safety and environmental laws. The Jones Act has been blamed unfairly for the high cost of some goods in Hawaii, but shipping costs have actually gone down. http://www.mctf.com/caseletter.htm

And the freight cost is only a small portion of what consumers pay.

Small cost? Shipping is a signifcant cost whenever you have to ship something over. With some adjustment to this law and allowing the market to be open to other shippers will bring more competition to the island shipping industry and hopefully lower prices. We often read that Matson increases shipping rates due to fuel hikes, increased labor costs and so forth.

I am sure all of Hawaii's businesses would support lower shipping costs for goods brought into the islands. This will in turn lower prices or at least hold them stable instead of pushing costs for consumers continually higher.

Of course Jones Act supporters have nothing to worry about since I don't see the repeal of the Jones Act happening anytime soon. There is no further need to push the debate here.

On another note, the recent Star Bulletin poll shows that Ed Case is far ahead of Mike Gabbard, that I don't think anyone has to worry about Gabbard beating Case this coming fall. Even though I am conservative, from the crop of current Dems in office from Hawaii, I also like Ed Case.

It's a good thing I don't have to vote in this race since I don't live in the 2nd Congressional district.

BKHale2007
August 10th, 2004, 12:38 PM
I agree that some prices are higher than those on the mainland. One should factor in the distance of Hawaii from the mainland. That, I think, accounts the most for shipping costs.

Anyway, John Gentile looks interesting. I am surprised that Case is so far ahead in the poll. I know the second district includes the entire state except Honolulu, and I wonder if the poll had more Oahu and Maui people than residents of other areas. In Hilo I see many, many Gabbard signs, and not many Case ones. How is it where you live?

Albert
August 10th, 2004, 01:41 PM
I couldn't possibly vote for Gabbard, but I also couldn't possibly vote for Bush2.

Unfortunately, in the upcoming election, I don't want to vote for ANYONE who is running for ANY office ...

... so I'll sit this one out, and hope for the best.

helen
August 10th, 2004, 07:37 PM
I couldn't possibly vote for Gabbard

You can't anyway or for Case for that matter too since they are running for a seat that does not represent the area of Hawaii that you (and I) reside in.

Vanguard
August 12th, 2004, 04:52 AM
Other than the "are you now or have you ever been" tone of the religious questions, none of those strike me as unfair. Good for Ed.

I thought the religious questions were quite fair. Public servants, especially those running for federal office, need to be open about their life, even their personal life. I'm sure you'd want to know if Kerry had a shrine to Jim Jones in his house.

ISKCON (which Gabbard, Reed, and Chris Butler are not members of) is a cult which wont own up to sexually abusing children. Science of Identity Foundation (Butler AKA Siddhaswarupananda's group) is just another cult, which just happens to be much better at stealth and maintaining a very low profile, while exploiting their rank and file members.

Linkmeister
August 12th, 2004, 08:12 AM
Vanguard, I had my editor's hat on; I thought those questions could have been phrased a little less confrontationally, that's all. I agree the requests are legitimate.

Vanguard
August 12th, 2004, 12:31 PM
Ah right! Didn't mean to jump the gun. :)

mel
August 12th, 2004, 01:26 PM
Flew into Hilo yesterday for my one week vacation on the Big Island. I could not help but notice a ton of Gabbard yard signs erected in many neighborhoods in Hilo and many more along the Hamakua Coast going into Honokaa. I don't know if this is an indication of anything, but just thought it might be something for Oahu folks to note.

craigwatanabe
August 13th, 2004, 10:53 AM
Hey Mel,

I've noticed a lot of yards with both Gabbard and Case signs! Kinda dysfunctional families over here aren't they?

You still coming over to Kea'au for a visit?

BKHale2007
August 13th, 2004, 12:50 PM
I've seen at least one. I think it's that different family members have diffrent candidates they're rooting for.

mel
August 13th, 2004, 01:39 PM
I've seen a few Case and Gabbard signs on the same property in Waimea today. This phenomena is kind of like what occurs out in Waipahu, where you see Mufi and Bainum signs on the same lot. It seems if you went on signs alone, at least in certain parts of the Big Island, Gabbard could be ahead of Case... but then this is only an observation based on yard signs. Not scientific at all.

hanai
August 18th, 2004, 01:08 AM
The first post said this election campaign isn’t going to be friendly, I gotta agree.

I've followed Case's career since his failed bid for Governor, and now congress. Gabbard, a one-issue-man according to Case, seems to have a commendable council record on important issues like water, environment, trash disposal, taxes reform, Hawaiian issues, to name some that are very different from the marriage-issue.

Case has done many, many talk stories but the only bill he has introduced
is to rename a post-office ( http://www.mauitime.com/v08/v08_1/coco_wire.html) A candidate can listen to the constituents but will he actually act on it?

Someone mentioned that this Congressional District has only ever been represented by democrats. So was the Governorship, until Lingle ended 40 yrs of one party rule. One party rule is bad for democracy IMO. To quote a cliché – there’s always a first time.

Change is good, and will help eliminate corruption...Btw, apparently Case's cousin Steve Case is a big landowner on the neighbor islands (Maui Pineapple Co), and Ed Case is on the Congressional Agricultural Committee....hmmmmm

I recall another post saying that Case should do better than this. I agree. He’s a congressman in office and should behave as such. The negativity he exudes to his opponents implies that he is diverting attention from his own shortcomings... Right now Hawai'i needs a Great Uniter, like Kamehameha I....The Life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness...But case seems more self-righteous in his advocacy of extreme liberal views....this does not perpetuate the life of the land imo...

I'm not sure if I'll even vote, its not very motivating seeing all this negativity..... But I do know that the views I hold seem represented more by Gabbard than Case. Case’ morals seem almost non-existent, anything to get a vote kind of vibe... :eek:

Vanguard
August 18th, 2004, 04:18 AM
Ed Case's cousin is Steve Case? Owner of AOL? Everybody in this race seems to be manipulated by a more powerful person in the shadows, in my opinion.

I found information about SIF which Gabbard is allegedly a member of. Fascinating ...

http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=820

hanai
August 21st, 2004, 12:35 AM
Ed Case's cousin is Steve Case? Owner of AOL? Everybody in this race seems to be manipulated by a more powerful person in the shadows, in my opinion.

I found information about SIF which Gabbard is allegedly a member of. Fascinating ...

http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=820

Yeah, the Steve-Ed connection is interesting, if you search the archives on NY post you can see Steve is investing millions into development of his Maui land holdings, opening fair questions as to the actions of Ed on the agricultural commitee. I wonder if they have a jeremy harris contracts for contributions program going on, or somesuch.

Anyway, I deliberately avoided the religion aspect, as I do not know much about it. But Vanguard, I’m sure if you can take what someone somebody else said, I’m sure you can take that which is more direct.

Maybe you haven’t seen this, from Mike's offical site http://www.mikegabbardreligion.com/ :

Question: How do you feel about the Science of Identity Foundation and Chris Butler?

Answer: Although I am not a member of the Science of Identity Foundation, I am eternally thankful to Chris Butler, the founder of SIF, whose teachings helped inspire me to return to my Catholic roots and the fundamental teachings of Jesus Christ.

Question: I’ve heard so many rumors about Mike Gabbard’s religion. I’ve heard you were a Bahai, a Moonie, a Hare Krishna, a Mormon, a Christian Scientist, a Buddhist. Why is it that some people don’t seem to know you’re a Catholic?

Answer: Maybe because my political opponents like to spread lots of false rumors. But also, remember I spent decades studying and exploring various major religious philosophies and schools of thought. I am very well acquainted with both Eastern and Western philosophies and I have great respect for people of the different faiths of the world.

Also, I feel quite comfortable moving freely amongst people of different religious faiths. I not only enjoy attending Catholic and Evangelical worship services, I also enjoy worshiping with people of non-Christian faiths. And you may not know, over the years I have given lectures and sermons on the subject of selfless service, devotion to God and meditation to people of all faiths.

Most non-Christians know that I’m a Catholic, but they feel comfortable with me because they know I respect them and their values.

I firmly believe that if our world is to overcome the dark forces of selfishness, hatred, racism, and sectarian violence, that those who hold to universal spiritual values, no matter what our faith, must work together in a spirit of aloha and have the courage to stand up and fight for what’s right.

Vanguard
August 21st, 2004, 01:00 AM
Seeing as how SIF holds private meetings, and even aspirants aren't allowed there after quite some time of being checked out, there is no reliable way of verifying Gabbard's claims. How convenient for him.

BKHale2007
August 21st, 2004, 08:39 PM
There's an incidental mention of Mike Gabbard in the July 5 issue of The Nation (its theme is same-sex marriage), to which I subscribe and which arrived in today's mail:

Mike Gabbard, who led the fight against gay marriage in Hawaii, has thrown his hat into a Congressional race there... (p. 35)

kamlost
August 22nd, 2004, 02:35 PM
Why are they being pitted against each other when the primary's aren't even over? I wonder how Gentile feels bout that.

I don't like Case because of his blatant lack of respect for life.

Vanguard
August 25th, 2004, 04:43 AM
Interesting essay on the-hamster.com regarding the Hawaii US Congressional Race (http://www.the-hamster.com/mtype/archives/2004/08/kerry_holds_lea.html)


Ed Case made a mistake.

His mistake was not his questioning Gabbard's religious affiliations. Rather, his mistake was to question Gabbard's affiliations to a non-profit organization (seemingly religious focused).

Two words; plausible deniability.

His direct question should have been; "Are you a disciple of Chris Butler, AKA Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa, AKA Prabhupad?" or "did you take initiation in the Holy Names of Krishna (AKA "Harinama diksa" in sanskrit) from Chris Butler AKA (etc.)?" Of course, it's now too late to change it.

Hypothetically, you can deny affiliation to an organization/institution easily. And you can tell the truth in the process! Just say "I quit" to the receptionist. Heck, let's say you quit a religious corporation. You could do that, and still attend services. That's not a problem. As the Jehovah's Witnesses would say, it's "Jesus' law, versus Cesar's law". You couldn't even call it a lie.

On the other hand, it is taboo for a disciple of a guru in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition (the tradition which Jagad Guru claims affiliation) to deny one's guru. In some circles, it's even likened to when Peter denied affiliation with Jesus on Holy Thursday.

It's sort of laughable how Gabbard made light of Ed Case's question list, while simultaneously creating www.mikegabbardreligion.com to deny affiliation to SIF, while finding time and space to pay respects to Butler. Gabbard simultaneously calls Case's questioning ridiculous, while unwittingly giving credit to Case by purchasing a new domain and website to deny an organization which Gabbard makes claims the founder "helped inspire (him) to return to (his) Catholic roots and the fundamental teachings of Jesus Christ."

It's also been brought to this writer's attention, that the creator(s) of www.mikegabbard.info have been threatened with a lawsuit by SIF or Gabbard, for insinuating a connection between the two, and for copywrite infringement (presumably, for showing a clip of Butler's TV show "Jagad Guru Speaks" during which the Gabbards laugh at Butler's cynical remarks toward Christianity).

Anyone who knows Chris Butler even on a rudimentary level is aware that he has not appeared in public since the late 1970's, early 1980's. His sole link to the public is a television show. However, he will not appear "in the flesh".

Apparently, since his breakaway from the cultish Krishna organization ISKCON in 1977, Butler contends that members of ISKCON's managerial arm, "The GBC", have been conspiring assassinate him. Several seemingly impartial devotees from neither ISKCON nor SIF seemed to confirm that an attempt was made in the late 1970's. Since then, Butler has been laying low in Lanikai and Malibu. Even to this day, anyone who so much as wants a glimpse of Chris Butler in the flesh (they call it "Darshan"), must be screened carefully by Butler's disciples.

To avoid preceived violence against his person, and to avoid outside questionings of his doctrines, there are no outsiders at darshans and lectures. He detests ISKCON, and more recently, Hare Krishna cult Kingpin Narayana Maharaja's organization for canvassing the manager of Butler's Philippines temple in January 2000, Mahabhav das, who now resides in NM's main temple in India.

Therefore, I would believe that by Gabbard's appearance on Butler's television show, he is a full-fledged initiated disciple of Chris Butler. In the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, your guru comes first, family 2nd, friends 3rd, and constituents last. On mikegabbardreligion.com, all he did was deny affiliation to SIF, which, as stated at the beginning of this essay, is something very easy to do. Case's questions, as insightful as they were, unwittingly gave Gabbard a considerable amount of "wiggle room" in vaguely, yet truthfully, answering legitimate questions which constituents have a right to know in detail.

kamlost
August 25th, 2004, 04:32 PM
There's an incidental mention of Mike Gabbard in the July 5 issue of The Nation (its theme is same-sex marriage), to which I subscribe and which arrived in today's mail:

Mike Gabbard, who led the fight against gay marriage in Hawaii, has thrown his hat into a Congressional race there... (p. 35)

BKHale, care to share more from the article?

BKHale2007
August 26th, 2004, 05:32 PM
That was the extent of the mention of Gabbard in The Nation but there's likely to be more mentions of him in the national media, and I'll post those as I find them. A 2000 Salon.com article also mentions Gabbard.

http://archive.salon.com/politics2000/feature/2000/01/24/evangelists/index1.html

A Hawaiian-shirt-clad Mike Gabbard, the anti-gay activist from Stop Promoting Homosexuality International, warned the crowd of the perils of the Vermont State Supreme Court's ruling on domestic partnerships.

j3rr3y
September 3rd, 2004, 08:59 PM
I'm a republican, and voting as such.

aloha_girlz
September 4th, 2004, 08:39 PM
I vote for the person who knows the value of family. I come from a troubled family broken up by differences that could have been avoided and can be fixed.

I will not vote for Case because of his supporting the very cause that took my brother away from the family. Because of his supporting the Jones Act, because of his support for abortion.

We need new blood in the Legislature.

BKHale2007
September 5th, 2004, 06:50 AM
Actually, Ed Case is against http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpost.php?p=6470&postcount=28 the Jones Act

Google "Ed Case Jones Act."


Mike Gabbard speaks in the HawaiiReporter.com.http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?ce417a70-0272-4e0d-9610-df0c323baa02

pzarquon
September 5th, 2004, 05:33 PM
Mike Gabbard speaks in the HawaiiReporter.com.About time. He hasn't won me over, but I found that basic presentation a lot more compelling than his websites -- both his official campaign website and his bizzare religion website. Case definitely has to try harder than the flippant "one-issue candidate" dismissal of his opponent.

Given all the focus on his religious views, and the extensive effort he put into settling related questions, I was struck by the absense of God, Christ, and religion from his detailed response. Apart from allusions to "values" and the trusty rant about same-sex marriage, someone viewing that letter who doesn't know anything about Gabbard would think he's practically secular.

Considering some Republicans are going as far as saying God and Christ are Republicans, I almost feel like thanking him for his restraint.

surfdog
September 12th, 2004, 05:38 PM
Being a Christian and a Republican, I CANNOT bring myself to vote for Mike Gabbard. He has a much more anti-Christian background that most people realize.

Most of us are aware of his long-terrm affiliation with the Hare Krishna cult movement, but not many have seen the tv footage of Gabbard smiling and laughing along while his guru talks about God being a "sadist" who "doesn't really exist", and calling those who follow Jesus Christ "idiots".

As a Christian, I find Gabbard's behavior offensive.

alohaj316
September 13th, 2004, 01:49 AM
Being a Christian and a Republican, I CANNOT bring myself to vote for Mike Gabbard.
Gabbard votes in line with the Republican platform and he votes Judeo-Christian values. There is no other candidate in this race meeting those requirements. I'm not letting some video from long ago nullify those. I've changed my mind on issues over the last 20 years, why can't Mike Gabbard have also?

kamlost
September 13th, 2004, 05:54 AM
Good point Alohaj.

pzarquon
September 19th, 2004, 07:57 AM
Primary Election update! District two results...

Republican Primary:

Mike Gabbard - 10,777 (76.8%)
Inam Rahman - 1,200 (8.6%)
Blank Votes - 1,087 (7.8%)
Miles Shiratori - 487 (3.5%)
Jonathan Treat - 470 (3.3%)

Democratic Primary:

Ed Case - 29,226 (87.3%)
Blank Votes - 2,634 (7.9%)
John Gentile - 1,618 (4.8%)

Linkmeister
September 19th, 2004, 08:54 PM
I've changed my mind on issues over the last 20 years, why can't Mike Gabbard have also?

Please explain that concept to all those folks who've bought the "flip-flop" line about Kerry, will you?

Vanguard
September 20th, 2004, 12:47 PM
I'm afraid that if I vote for Mike Gabbard, and then some mega tsunami hits Honolulu, he'll be too busy plotting about how to take care of "the rainbow triangle threat" to do much of anything else.

BKHale2007
September 22nd, 2004, 10:07 PM
Gabbard campaign manager suggests Star-Bulletin is biased against Case.

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?ab68f70a-b564-4be3-b56c-2bb0d117d1e6

Tutulady
September 23rd, 2004, 04:54 AM
Judging by that last article, as well as other claims from the Gabbard campaign machine, it seems as though Ed Case has a lot of power and control. Looks as though Gabbard is desparate and will stop at nothing to win. At least this has been my experience having supported his opponent for council in the last election. The man and his accolytes no doubt are media savvy and are dangerously manipulative. I consider his style to be very negatively focused and despotic. Often resorting to labeling when caught in a corner. I will never vote for him or his ilk, ever. JM2C :cool:

Linkmeister
September 23rd, 2004, 07:45 AM
Gabbard campaign manager suggests Star-Bulletin is biased against Case.

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?ab68f70a-b564-4be3-b56c-2bb0d117d1e6

That's a bid for cheap publicity. Newspapers cover candidates for the benefit of the public, not necessarily the benefit of either candidate. And I know this will come as a surprise to Gabbard's campaign manager, but they (gasp!) actually endorse candidates, too.

Tutulady
September 25th, 2004, 01:55 PM
That's a bid for cheap publicity. Newspapers cover candidates for the benefit of the public, not necessarily the benefit of either candidate. And I know this will come as a surprise to Gabbard's campaign manager, but they (gasp!) actually endorse candidates, too. :eek: You don't say... :D LOL j/k

Linkmeister
September 25th, 2004, 04:01 PM
Who's behind that HawaiiReporter site? I looked (briefly) for an "About Us" page and didn't see one. Anybody know?

Tutulady
September 27th, 2004, 09:48 AM
I don't know whose behind that paper but I do know from first-hand experience that their reporters (actually one in particular) tend to scew "the facts" to suit their (the papers') purposes. I know first hand that their news is not fair and unbiased (but really, what news agents are?) as most news outlets should be. I liken the Hawai'i Reporter to the National Enquirer in that no matter how much someone tries to "clarify" the facts, they will go out of their way to print" the truth" (their facts must be true since you're trying so hard to clarify what was said?). Bottom line, if you want to know the truth, one must first do your own "fact finding" and then only go with your own gut instinct. As the age old addage goes, don't believe everything you see or read in the news(papers). :cool:

Glen Miyashiro
September 27th, 2004, 10:15 AM
Who's behind that HawaiiReporter site? I looked (briefly) for an "About Us" page and didn't see one. Anybody know?
Here's their About Us (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/aboutus.aspx) page. Malia Zimmerman is the president, and Jay McWilliams is the vice president - marketing and sales. No one else is listed.

Linkmeister
September 27th, 2004, 10:57 AM
Here's their About Us (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/aboutus.aspx) page. Malia Zimmerman is the president, and Jay McWilliams is the vice president - marketing and sales. No one else is listed.

Hmm. How did I miss that? Thanks.

A quick Google search gives us this information about Ms. Zimmerman from the Grassroots Institute (http://www.grassrootinstitute.org/AboutGRIH/board.html), where she's on the board:


Malia Zimmerman, Wc.Ak. Vice President
is the president, editor and founder of the on-line business journal, Hawaii Reporter.com, which five days a week features stories on issues pertaining to business, politics, business, government and republishes stories and studies from numerous free market think tanks and public policy institutes around the world. HawaiiReporter.com is distributed to more than 10,000 subscribers in Hawaii and throughout the world five days a week. Prior to founding HawaiiReporter.com in Feb. 2002, Malia wrote for local and national publications such as the Wall Street Journal Opinion Journal, The Washington Times, Liberty Magazine, Midweek, Small Business News, Trade Publications, Hawaii Parent and Pacific Business News.

I don't want to practice guilt-by-association, but the WSJ and the WashTimes? There's a right-leaning slant implicit there.

Let's see about McWilliams.

Not much. He looks to be a reporter who writes for Hawaii Reporter and Small Business Hawaii. SBH could certainly be construed as small-government conservative, based on every public statement its founder (Sam Slom) has ever made.

Tutulady
September 27th, 2004, 02:52 PM
Here's their About Us (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/aboutus.aspx) page. Malia Zimmerman is the president, and Jay McWilliams is the vice president - marketing and sales. No one else is listed.Malia is the Pres huh? Explains alot then. She still writes occasionally for Midweek doesn't she? :rolleyes:

pzarquon
October 4th, 2004, 01:18 PM
Ed Case sent out the following e-mail blast yesterday:


Dear Mike: With respect to your email purporting interest in televised debates, I have no problem considering meaningful opportunities for "the voters of Hawaii 's second congressional district ... to see where you and I differ on the issues before they vote on November 2nd." However, given that your professed interest at this late date is contrary to your actual actions thus far, which appear designed to avoid any real public inquiry into your candidacy, it's hard to take your inquiry seriously. (Click "Show Spoiler" for full text.)

Specifically, your actions on which I base this conclusion include the following:

(1) You announced at the outset of your candidacy that you would not talk directly to any member of the media, but instead would only respond, if at all, to email inquiries.
(2) As reported in Honolulu magazine and elsewhere, you have in fact refused to talk with the media, even at your own public events.
(3) You accused the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, one of Hawaii 's leading statewide newspapers, of bias in specifically refusing to respond to its inquiries.
(4) You have refused to answer or even acknowledge the questions I put to you in my emails of July 21st and August 1st (see www.edcase.com (http://www.edcase.com/)).
(5) You refused to participate in the free 'Olelo public access television candidate debates.
(6) You refused even to tape a candidate segment for 'Olelo's Candidates in Focus, as, I understand, you have also declined to do for other island free public access television and radio.
(7) You canceled a joint appearance between us on KHON TV eight hours before our prescheduled appearance, claiming laryngitis, even though I personally saw you singing in a parade the previous day.
(8) You either cancelled or refused to appear on a joint talk radio appearance.
(9) You initially refused to appear in a traditional West Hawai`i debate cosponsored by the League of Women Voters, Kona-Kohala Chamber of Commerce, and Kona Outdoor Circle , essentially claiming bias by those organizations.
(10) Although you have apparently since agreed to debate me in the LWV/Chamber/Outdoor Circle West Hawai`i debate on Monday, October 18th, you have refused to grant permission for that debate to be taped by community television for showing to the voters. (Incidentally, just so you know in advance, I will most likely be taping this public forum for my own purposes, and, contrary to the techniques utilized by your supporters on Kaua`i, for example, we will not be doing so surreptitiously.)
(11) You have thus far refused to accept an invitation to appear jointly with me on PBS' Island Insights on Monday, November 11th.
Mike, informing the voters means providing every reasonable opportunity to inform them, not just those of your own careful choosing, design and comfort level. If you have truly turned over a new leaf, then please demonstrate your commitment by at least (a) rescinding your avoidance policy with the media and agreeing immediately and publicly to open, unstructured interviews and other communications with any media representative, (b) agreeing to appear jointly with me on PBS on October 11th, and (c) agreeing to community television taping of our West Hawai`i debate on October 18th.

Once you have done so, I will believe your inquiry regarding other opportunities to be a serious one and will look for whether and how we can make it happen. Please let me know at your earliest opportunity, as my Congressional duties in Washington D.C. are ongoing, and, like, I'm sure, you, my schedule in Hawai`i during the thirty days left to the election is rapidly closing out.

With aloha,

Ed Case

Konaguy
October 4th, 2004, 06:29 PM
There was something on the news in regards to a Federal Campaign Commission
inquiry into Mike Gabbards campaign. Evidently there is donations from
people whose occupations could not afford the donation to the Gabbard Campaign.

Linkmeister
October 4th, 2004, 09:42 PM
There was something on the news in regards to a Federal Campaign Commission
inquiry into Mike Gabbards campaign. Evidently there is donations from
people whose occupations could not afford the donation to the Gabbard Campaign.

Rephrase that second sentence. "It seems unlikely their occupations would give them the spare cash to donate $2,000 (the legal limit) to any political campaign."

Yeah, a housekeeper, a landscaper, a one-person secretarial service...if they have 2 grand to spare to give to a politician's campaign then I'm in the wrong part of the self-employment game. ;)

Vanguard
October 5th, 2004, 06:06 AM
There was something on the news in regards to a Federal Campaign Commission
inquiry into Mike Gabbards campaign. Evidently there is donations from
people whose occupations could not afford the donation to the Gabbard Campaign.

It warms my heart to know that the federal government still has the chutzpah to investigate campaign finance. For a moment, I thought they forgot about us little people ;)

pzarquon
October 5th, 2004, 06:25 AM
There was something on the news in regards to a Federal Campaign Commission inquiry into Mike Gabbards campaign.Does anyone have a link? What media outlet was covering this investigation? I know campaign spending reports are public records and I can look them up myself, but I'm curious specifically about the assertion - at the Federal level no less - that this donor or that couldn't realistically have thrown $2,000 away.

Linkmeister
October 5th, 2004, 08:08 AM
Does anyone have a link? What media outlet was covering this investigation? I know campaign spending reports are public records and I can look them up myself, but I'm curious specifically about the assertion - at the Federal level no less - that this donor or that couldn't realistically have thrown $2,000 away.

I'm not sure it was Federal. Daryl Huff of KITV had a story about it last night; I'm pretty sure that's what Aaron saw. I just looked for a link on their site and can't find a thing; in fact, it looks way out of date. The lead story on Commitment 2004 (their election pages) is the Fasi endorsement of Hanneman, and a search for Gabbard turns up nothing.

BKHale2007
October 5th, 2004, 06:26 PM
I saw that too. Someone from Hawi on the Big Island, Alex (I forget his surname) made the allegations.

The Daily Kos's take on the Hawaii primaries, including a tidbit about Carol Gabbard not running for the BOE because she's preparing to live in Washington (if Gabbard wins).

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/19/2630/54779

Konaguy
October 5th, 2004, 06:29 PM
I'm not sure it was Federal. Daryl Huff of KITV had a story about it last night; I'm pretty sure that's what Aaron saw. I just looked for a link on their site and can't find a thing; in fact, it looks way out of date. The lead story on Commitment 2004 (their election pages) is the Fasi endorsement of Hanneman, and a search for Gabbard turns up nothing.

Yup thats what I saw, Darryl Huff's story. I swear it was a Federal campaign
spending commission inquiry. I couldn't find any news article URL for it though.
But there is a video of the piece on the www.thehawaiichannel.com

pzarquon
October 5th, 2004, 07:29 PM
Gabbard's karaoke ads are definitely not winning over any voters in my unscientific sampling of people with scruples. My wife nearly broke our TV throwing something at it the other night. What is Gabbard gunning for, again? Hawaii Stars or the U.S. Capitol? :)

I suppose it's supposed to be a strong "counterprogramming" move versus his image in some circles as the opposite of "aloha." But it strikes me as silly,especially since he has so much more of his platform to get out there than he has so far.

Tutulady
October 5th, 2004, 08:23 PM
Ed Case sent out the following e-mail blast yesterday:Would it be possible to get a copy of that email so I can post it elsewhere? On second thought, I may just post a link to here and leave it at that. Thanks. :)

Tutulady
October 5th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Gabbard's karaoke ads are definitely not winning over any voters in my unscientific sampling of people with scruples. My wife nearly broke our TV throwing something at it the other night. What is Gabbard gunning for, again? Hawaii Stars or the U.S. Capitol? :)

I suppose it's supposed to be a strong "counterprogramming" move versus his image in some circles as the opposite of "aloha." But it strikes me as silly,especially since he has so much more of his platform to get out there than he has so far.I'm getting deja vu again. I predict there will be more ads/newspieces of him playing the guitar, pushing his CD, and leveling accusations toward his opponent and labeling opposing voters extremists, racists, et al. I also predict his evading direct answers to issues that require any amount of deep thought or focused visioning. Lastly, there will be a "media blitz" of advertisements, mass mailings, articles and sound bytes all extolling his morals and values ad nauseum.

NO, I am not psychic or psycho. LOL I just lived it and so far the pattern of previous tactics are becoming more and more apparent. :eek: :p

pzarquon
October 5th, 2004, 09:32 PM
Here's a direct link (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/video/3785646/detail.html) to the clip. It's essentially an allegation at this point, rather than an independent and full federal investigation.

A civil rights activist has filed a complaint against Republican congressional candidate Mike Gabbard, accusing him of breaking federal election laws. the complaint alleges donors with modest paying jobs may be illegally used as conduits to funnel contributions to the Gabbard campaign. The reporter singles out a few entries from Gabbard's filings. Among the people giving big chunks of cash were a Kailua housekeeper, a Kailua landscaper, a Honolulu accupuncturist, a Makawao (Maui) landscaper, a Pahoa carpenter, a self-employed secretary in Keaau, and a self-employed jewelry designer also in Keaau. All gave $2,000.

Gabbard says the man, Alex Achmat (?), a resident of Hawi on the Big Island, is a sign thief. Um. How this is a response to the fundraising allegations is beyond me.

BKHale2007
October 6th, 2004, 05:57 AM
When I saw Gabbard with his guitar, the 1992 movie Bob Roberts came to mind.

Bob Roberts (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103850/com/title/tt0103850/)

Vanguard
October 6th, 2004, 08:25 AM
Gabbard's karaoke ads are definitely not winning over any voters in my unscientific sampling of people with scruples. My wife nearly broke our TV throwing something at it the other night. What is Gabbard gunning for, again? Hawaii Stars or the U.S. Capitol? :)

American Idol, Senior Citizens' Edition?

Tutulady
October 6th, 2004, 08:44 AM
Here's a direct link (http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/video/3785646/detail.html) to the clip. It's essentially an allegation at this point, rather than an independent and full federal investigation.
The reporter singles out a few entries from Gabbard's filings. Among the people giving big chunks of cash were a Kailua housekeeper, a Kailua landscaper, a Honolulu accupuncturist, a Makawao (Maui) landscaper, a Pahoa carpenter, a self-employed secretary in Keaau, and a self-employed jewelry designer also in Keaau. All gave $2,000.

Gabbard says the man, Alex Achmat (?), a resident of Hawi on the Big Island, is a sign thief. Um. How this is a response to the fundraising allegations is beyond me.Similar themes exist from last election. Here's a quick flashback of a couple of items of interest (http://www.hawaii.gov/campaign/Bulletin/CSCBulletinBoard/2003/csc9-2.htm) relating to the Gabbard animetronics (play on word intentional :) ) that was found on the Campaign Spending Commission's website.

Tutulady
October 6th, 2004, 08:46 AM
American Idol, Senior Citizens' Edition?Hmmm... more like Hawai'i Stars or Star Search IMHO. LOL

BKHale2007
October 13th, 2004, 07:51 PM
The campaign violations accusation makes the Star-Bulletrin.

http://starbulletin.com/2004/10/13/news/index8.html

Linkmeister
October 13th, 2004, 08:38 PM
I know we have some local tv types in here, so maybe someone can provide an approximate answer to this. Those ads he's running during primetime news can't be too cheap, right? Anyone know what the rates are like for spots like his during those hours?

Reason I ask, I wonder how he's paying for those ads.

Vanguard
October 14th, 2004, 01:49 AM
The campaign violations accusation makes the Star-Bulletrin.

http://starbulletin.com/2004/10/13/news/index8.html

I just read the article. I believe it is a common tactic when independent advocates do their own investigations of government or political wrongdoing, a common tactic among the target of an investigation is to accuse the "advocate" of harassment, stalking, etc. to discourage further digging. I'm a layperson, and I truly hope that this fellow didn't go overboard emotionally if he was truly on to something :(

BKHale2007
October 14th, 2004, 08:54 AM
Gabbard Seeks Debate With Case

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?title=Ed+Case%e2%80%99s+Claims+Regardin g+the+PBS+Political+Forum+are+'Shibai'

pzarquon
October 14th, 2004, 09:31 AM
This (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?c563455e-7307-436c-a045-1eb63f7266e7) might be a better link.
Case and Mike will be squaring off at a forum in Kona on October 18, 2004, sponsored by League of Women Voters, Kona-Kohala Chamber of Commerce, and Kona Outdoor Circle. Case has told the people of Hawaii that Mike refused to allow community television to videotape the presentation. This is a complete falsehood.Oddly enough, as Gabbard debunks Case's claims on the Kona event, the PBS forum mentioned in the headline is only addressed in a tiny sentence at the end. I haven't been tracking this ridiculous back and forth (conducted largely in e-mail, in part because that's the primary way Gabbard wants to work). What did happen to the originally scheduled PBS forum?

pzarquon
October 15th, 2004, 11:36 AM
Another blast out of Case... click the "Spoiler" button to read the whole thing. Case to Gabbard #4: Your Claim To Being A "Teacher and Educator":
Mike:

Your current TV ad makes the claim that you are a "teacher and educator." Your campaign literature makes the same claim.In neither, nor in your website nor anywhere else, do you specify where and how you were or are either a teacher or an educator. That is why I asked you the following questions in my July 21st email:

- At which schools have you worked, during which years, and what were your job titles and responsibilities?

- You've stated that you were affiliated with the "Ponomauloa School" in Wahiawa; what type of school was that, what years was it in existence, and what were your responsibilities and in what years?

You have not answered these questions nor offered any other information justifying your claim to being a "teacher and educator." Please answer these questions, along with this additional question:

- Are you or have you ever been licensed or certified as a teacher in Hawaii or elsewhere?

If you do not answer these questions and provide information justifying your claim, I will comment publicly that you have misled those you wish to represent and others.

With aloha,

Ed CaseThe bit about Ponomauloa School is pretty interesting. Google turns up no sign that it existed - whether a web page or a reference to it in crawled government documents - beyond Gabbard's bio and of course Case's challenge. A search of the DCCA website shows an entry for Ponomauloa School, but after it was incorporated on Aug. 24, 1983, it seems the state never heard from it again (1985, 1987, 1988, 1989) before it was "involuntarily dissolved" on Feb. 28, 1990. The mailing address for this "school" was a P.O. box in Wahiawa.

Gabbard's bio claims he was a "headmaster/teacher" at this place from July 1983 (starting before it was incorporated?) to June 1987. Curious. Does "headmaster" mean "person who has the P.O. box key"? :)

Vanguard
October 15th, 2004, 12:29 PM
A search of the DCCA website shows an entry for Ponomauloa School, but after it was incorporated on Aug. 24, 1983, it seems the state never heard from it again (1985, 1987, 1988, 1989) before it was "involuntarily dissolved" on Feb. 28, 1990. The mailing address for this "school" was a P.O. box in Wahiawa.

Some might say it was a charter or private school run for children of SIF (I wouldn't know either way myself), but just like many things concerning MG, there are big, vague gaps in his bio that cannot be explained even with research of public records. Strange considering this is someone who wants to run for a federal public office.

Linkmeister
October 15th, 2004, 01:37 PM
I saw the first television ad accusing Case of promoting gay marriage last night. I wondered when Gabbard would play that card (and yes, it was from the Gabbard for Congress committee).

pzarquon
October 15th, 2004, 03:21 PM
Some might say it was a charter or private school run for children of SIFThat's what I was thinking. I wonder if SIF used a P.O. box in Wahiawa? And I agree. Even if it's all innocuous, there's too much behind the curtain to trust this guy to do right in Washington D.C. And what he's sticking through the curtain isn't exactly appealing as it is.

As for the ad... It's almost amusing how quickly he can go from "Star Search: Geriatric Edition" to "Danger: We're Going To Hell!" I thought the ominous, scary-movie soundtrack was a nice touch. (Not.)

Finally he falls back into the single-issue groove where we know he feels at home. I know a majority of Hawaii residents oppose gay marriage, but he's messed up the math. That ad will do nothing to boost Gabbard's narrow support, and will easily annoy the crap out of those who were possibly considering voting for him.

Linkmeister
October 15th, 2004, 03:41 PM
I should have added that I saw a new ad from Case which had a zinger slightly buried in it. It was something to the effect of "you need someone who knows what he's doing in Washington." The implication being, of course, that Gabbard wouldn't.

Tutulady
October 16th, 2004, 03:21 PM
My hubby came across an interesting tidbit in the Honolulu Weekly (www.honoluluweekly.com) this week. One of the lead stories happens to be about Mr. Gabbard, specifically, Gabbard Under Investigation (http://www.honoluluweekly.com/diary_main.html). :eek:

There's a link at the end of the article of which you can read by clicking here (http://www.honoluluweekly.com/archives/coverstory%201999/01-27-99%20Gabbard/01-27-99%20Gabbard.html).

One cannot help but wonder about someone facing so much enquiries yet refuses to deal openly with such harsh criticism and/or accusations. Creepy really.

hanai
October 16th, 2004, 09:22 PM
Its interesting how everyone is focusing on Achmat's unproven, uninvestigated accusation (which has not even been verified by the FEC yet) what happened to innocent untill proven guilty?

On the other hand, Ed Case has been PROVEN to have received illegal contributions, and the contributor has been fined by the Campaign Spending Commission.

---
see: http://starbulletin.com/2004/10/14/news/index6.html

The commission voted 3-1 yesterday to approve $61,000 in fines against the presidents of local government contractor KFC Engineering Management Inc. and sister company KFC Airport Inc. The commission alleged that the firms' presidents, Dexter Kubota and Brian Bowers, funneled more than $150,000 in illegal political donations.

Recipients included Honolulu Mayor Jeremy Harris, Gov. Linda Lingle, U.S. Rep. Ed Case, ex-Gov. Ben Cayetano, former Lt. Gov. Mazie Hirono, ex-Maui Mayor James "Kimo" Apana, former state Sen. Matt Matsunaga, ex-Big Island mayoral candidate Fred Holschuh and former City Councilman Jon Yoshimura, the commission said.
---

And regarding Case's accusations against Mike, claiming hes not even a teacher? Hes pretty dumb because I found his complete resume on mikegabbard.com quite easily. Is Case really a competent Congressman?

---
see:http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?142bab4d-589d-4a71-bee1-41a886e9e1ab

Challenging Ed Case on Facts He Published About Me
By Mike Gabbard, 10/16/2004 3:42:54 PM

October 15, 2004

Dear Ed,

Aloha! You wrote me last night asking me for information.

See story in Hawaii Reporter: "Case to Gabbard No. 4: Your Claim To Being A 'Teacher and Educator'"

I sent you an email essentially saying that I would be getting you the information within 24 hours.

The fact that you quickly spread your letter of questions/accusations around the internet within hours after you sent me your questions is proof that you had no real interest in receiving the information.

The following information is and has been available on my website for months (and was provided to the Associated Press several months ago), but I will place it on the Hawaii Reporter as well so you will have no excuse for claiming that you are not able to find it on my website.

Education:

Student, Mother of Good Counsel Seminary, Warrenton, MO (1961-1962) Graduate, Choctawhatchee High School, Fort Walton Beach, FL (1965) Bachelor of Arts degree in English, California State University, Sonoma (1971) Masters of Education degree in Adult Education with emphasis on community college administration, Oregon State University (1980)

Professional:

Teacher/Educator/Coach

* Counselor at drug rehab program through Sonoma State (9/70 to 12/70)

Intern at emergency psychiatric ward, Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital (1970)

* Faga’itua High School—taught English and Language Arts to sophomores and juniors (1/71 to 6/72)
* Samoana High School– Program director/instructor in Pilot Project with 60 “problem” seniors (8/72 to 6/73)
* American Samoa Community College (ASCC), Psychology and English teacher (8/73 to 6/74)
* ASCC Guidance Counselor (8/74 to 9/76)
* ASCC Assistant Dean of Instruction (9/76 to 8/77)
* ASCC Dean of Adult and Continuing Education, State Director of Adult Basic Education (6/80 to 6/83)
* Ponomauloa School, Wahiawa, headmaster/teacher (7/83 to 6/87)
* Home schooling (1/78 to 6/80, 8/87 to 1/88, 1/91 to 6/95)
* Created and directed free junior development tennis program in American Samoa (1976 to 1983)
* Head Instructor Tennis, Kuilima Hyatt Resort, No. Shore, Oahu (1977)
* Volunteer, teaching school children the importance of protecting Hawaii’s watershed, our aina, and improving individual and community health (Activities of Healthy Hawaii Coalition which Mike founded), 2001 to present

In addition to the above information which has been readily available to you and the public, at your request I’ll add the following information in order to bring relief to your overly suspicious mind:

Carol was a certified teacher in California.

In American Samoa, teachers are considered qualified if they have proper college degrees, which both Carol and I have. There was no separate licensing or certification system.

In Hawaii, we both received professional staff certificates to teach on September 1st, 1983 (see attached).

I was headmaster/teacher and Carol was teacher at Ponomauloa School, which serviced grades K-12 and was in existence from 1983 to 1987.

Regarding your other questions concerning my position, responsibilities, etc., that information is evident in the job titles/descriptions themselves. Considering that you are an educated man, I presume I don’t need to explain what the roles and responsibilities are of a headmaster, teacher, guidance counselor, dean, etc. are.

Ed, I think you should seriously reconsider the central strategy of your campaign which is one of character assassination. You are essentially attempting to lead people to believe that I am not who I say I am. Your entire campaign against me is centered around this attack on me as a person and indeed my entire family.

Are you really so ashamed of your record and your position on issues? Can you really not find anything in my position on issues and my record that you could center your campaign around?

I would not mind at all if you were criticizing my record or my position on issues-- be it my role in trying to protect traditional marriage, my work on the Council, or my years of community service.

I’m criticizing your record and your position on issues. But I have not centered my campaign around trying to tear down your reputation as a person and I’ve certainly not gone after your family like you have gone after mine.

There’s only one explanation for the kind of campaign that you’ve been waging for the last two months and you’re obviously setting into high gear. You are ashamed of your record and you are ashamed of your position on the issues.

I am looking forward to our debate in Kona. I’m also looking forward to our OHA debate. But I still believe we should try to have a debate one-on-one on one of the major TV stations. I understand, however, why you are reluctant to help me push that forward.

Best wishes and aloha,

Mike Gabbard

P.S. Please send my response to your questions to the thousands of people who subscribe to your email list. Failure to do so will prove once and for all that you have no interest in getting information to people but are consciously trying to deceive and mislead people in order to achieve your political ambitions.

---

hanai
October 16th, 2004, 10:48 PM
If Case is supposedly clearly winning why is he acting so scared and resorting to increasingly desperate amateurish tactics? Probably because its a very tight race, he was elected by a special election in which a minority of registered voters actually elected him, and he knows he's taken some very controversial stands that are unpopular with the majority of voters who never voted for him. Maybe thats why he's constantly shifting attention onto Gabbard, a popular grass roots leader whos been very effective on the Council.

I think we should all keep an open mind about the FEC complaint though, Case is running a very negative campaign obviously. And such double standards, I find it distateful and bigoted how he makes his main campaign platform how he was born in Hawaii, implying that Mike can't represent because he was born in American Samoa (and came to Hawaii at age 1). We should look at a candidates issue and effectiveness. Plenty of other politicians and local celebrities, even hawaiian soveriengty activists, are born outside Hawaii but that doesn't make them any less than the rest of us. Shame on Case.

I've voted democrat in the past but these kind of tactics remind me of Hirono's bigoted campaign against Lingle, which failed. I think bigotry always fails ultimately, Hawaii's people are smart enough to know the difference between people accused of bigtory (Mike) who has genuine Aloha, and real bigots (Case) who cheapens and makes a mockery of Aloha by signing off his negative accusatory mass slander-emails with "with deep aloha" Yeah right! Insincerity can't be masked by cheap personal attacks.

And how's Case's boring uncharismatic ads, Case can't smile and his head bobs around too much cuz the camera angle was too tight, LOL. And he keeps saying he deserves to be in Congress cuz "hes already on the job" just cuz his family connections (AOL-Time Warner money) and illegal KFC contributions won him the low-turnout special election, and that he "represents all hawaii" But wheres the proof of that?

Hawaii state consitution says soveriegnty in hawaii rests SOLEY in the people, yet Case has always voted against even allowing the people to vote on referendums. He represents a vocal minority and special interests, nothing more. Thats why Gabbard has so many signs, he represents mainstream Hawaii, and thats why Case's supporters are so angry and targeting Gabbard's signs, they are an angry minority who's claims of representing all Hawaii are proven hollow by Gabbard's huge grass-roots support, causing them to attack these symbols at every chance.

And theres plenty of proof that Gabbard's accusations against Achmat are true, Case's supporters have been stealing Mike's signs, and Achmat himself said in the StarBulletin article that "those signs represent intolerance and bigotry" so obviously he feels its right to remove them....hows that for hypocricy and intolerance?

3 Separate complaints against Case's supporters' intolerance and sign-stealing:

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?66d23d20-da75-48cd-a2d3-0c13c5fd68ee
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?6f55aaaa-e89d-4729-9436-a79221af4d43
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?a50ebe1d-8feb-4993-9f04-017bb031b1de

And how about Golojuch being recently caught in the act:
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?6981c0bd-558c-47e2-ba1e-7b7c05c0762e

Golojuch has been a long-time opponent of Gabbard, as evidenced by the Campaign Spending Commision complaints he lodged against Gabbard (that were dismissed btw)and this recent expose of Golojuch's immoral underhanded campaigning is very reveaing as to the nature of Gabbard's detractors. As Inouye's ads say, actions speak louder than words. Its clear who's actually practicing intolerance and curtailing 1st Amendment rights.

pzarquon
October 17th, 2004, 07:44 AM
Hey, I agree, for a guy in such a relatively strong position, Case is overplaying his hand and looks the worse for it. The recent CSC finding about illegal contributions, meanwhile, definitely give Gabbard another arrow to stick in his quill, no doubt about it.

I mentioned the Golojuch incident in the political signs (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=1238&highlight=signs) thread. Yes, Gabbard opponents (moreso that than Case supporters, I'd say) are being morons.


And regarding Case's accusations against Mike, claiming hes not even a teacher? Hes pretty dumb because I found his complete resume on mikegabbard.com quite easily.Um. From both Ed Case's fourth missive and Mike's useless reply, it's not the resume that can't be found... it's any evidence of the existance of Ponomauloa School in the first place. I've posted what little I can find above (one incorporation notice, and then no filings for years before the state dissolved it).

Mike says it "serviced grades K-12 and was in existence from 1983 to 1987," and that he was headmaster and teacher. Note that it is the only item under his educational credentials that claims to be a real teaching position at a stateside institution. (The rest are in Samoa, or are things like "tennis coach" or counselor.) You'd think, then, there'd be more detail. As it stands, I'd say Ponomauloa School was a P.O. Box that serviced a handful of homeschooled kids.

Ed Case is looking bad, no doubt about it. But there's more unknowns to worry about in Gabbard's case, as far as I'm concerned.

Linkmeister
October 17th, 2004, 07:59 AM
Also note that none of those "educational' jobs other than home schooling have been held since 1987, according to Gabbard's own letter. Seems to me someone who's claiming to be an educator would have continued practicing, rather than stopping 17 years ago.

hanai
October 17th, 2004, 05:03 PM
Um. From both Ed Case's fourth missive and Mike's useless reply, it's not the resume that can't be found... it's any evidence of the existance of Ponomauloa School in the first place.


But, according to Case he couldn't find the resume: "In neither, nor in your website nor anywhere else, do you specify where and how you were or are either a teacher or an educator. "

Mike was a high school and community college teacher, dean, guidance counsellor etc. That justifies calling oneself an Educator, by any standard, and it was certainly specified.

Regarding Ponomauloa School, the incorporation notice proves it exists. It was obviously a private school of some kind probably homeschool related since thats his next resume educational entry. But I don't see anything wrong with that. The guy ran a private school thats now closed...and now you think that disqualifies him for public office? Odd...I don't see why.



Also note that none of those "educational' jobs other than home schooling have been held since 1987, according to Gabbard's own letter. Seems to me someone who's claiming to be an educator would have continued practicing, rather than stopping 17 years ago.

Well actually, his wife Carol is a certified teacher [stateside, for you anti-samoa nitpickers] and on the Hawaii State Board of Education since 2000, taking part in the sucessful negotions for raising teachers pay. And she has chosen not to run for BOE re-election, to focus on Mike's educational policy for Congress. I beleive thats why she appears in that education ad jointly with Mike.

I feel you guys are unduly nitpicking Mike Gabbard, like your TRYING to find something wrong with him. I can't understand it...he's obviously a nice guy whos done alot of good things for Hawaii...

Ed Case on the other hand, has received illegal contributions, contributions from known homosexual extremists and PAC's, and loads of old family money and AOL-Time Warner money...he doesn't have the same grass-roots feel. You know Case was elected by only 9% of registered district 2 voters in the special election? So he has alot of work to do to increase his support base.

Interesting how Case features his AJA wife so prominently in all his literature and marketing materials, the poster in his campaign HQ window is espically noticable, goes overboard imo. Seems to me hes desperate to capture the AJA vote. At least Mike's wife has as a purpose to being on the campaign, being an educator and BOE member...not just for cynical ethnic vote grabbing.

Gabbard seems to have a grass-roots upperhand, alot more yard signs (possible measure of support, gabbard haters won't put up a sign, they steal them) Mike's ads are alot more professionally made too, in my opinion. Ed Case's are flat and boring, they don't reflect Hawai'i imo. One shot has Case walking up the steps to the U.S. capitol, thats hilarious...

Linkmeister
October 17th, 2004, 08:47 PM
I feel you guys are unduly nitpicking Mike Gabbard, like your TRYING to find something wrong with him. I can't understand it...he's obviously a nice guy whos done alot of good things for Hawaii...

Well, in my case, I don't see a lot of good things he's done. What I do see is a single-issue candidate (homophobia) whose issue is extraordinarily divisive, and I don't want another man like that in the US House; there are enough like him there already (See Musgrave, Tancredo, et. al.).

Fortunately for me, I'm in the 1st District, not the 2nd.

pzarquon
October 17th, 2004, 09:11 PM
Regarding Ponomauloa School, the incorporation notice proves it exists.Hardly. I could've filed incorporation papers to start an aerospace company. Doesn't mean there ever was one. This is like saying making a reservation at a restaurant proves you ate there. Besides, he throws out the title "headmaster." It implies a bigger operation than a few homeschooled kids, and certainly one that would have a bigger footprint than a P.O. box.

I feel you guys are unduly nitpicking Mike Gabbard, like your TRYING to find something wrong with him. I can't understand it...he's obviously a nice guy whos done alot of good things for Hawaii...I know some of Gabbard's supporters think so, but "nice" is relative. Someone who hammered so hard on a single, divisive issue, and even now seems unable to let it go (despite a supposed new beginning in public service where you'd expect his focus to get a bit broader), doesn't a nice person, or good candidate, make. YMMV, of course -- that's why they have elections.


Ed Case on the other hand, has received illegal contributions, contributions from known homosexual extremists and PAC's, and loads of old family money and AOL-Time Warner money... Known homosexual extremists? What's a homosexual extremist? In Gabbard's fire-and-brimstone, "what if I want to marry my dog?" days, a loving homosexual couple who wants to get married would be branded an "extremist."

As for the money, you're right, Mr. Case is hooked up, that's for sure. Extremes on either end will always be problematic. Someone who funds a campaign independently? Trying to buy the election. Someone who fundraises relentlessly? Too vulnerable to influence by special interests.

Money wise, neither candidate's hands in this race are clean, that's for sure. Campaign finance being what it is, I doubt there's a single candidate anywhere who doesn't have some funny entries in their books. A few of them probably don't even know themselves.


Interesting how Case features his AJA wife so prominently in all his literature and marketing materials, the poster in his campaign HQ window is espically noticable, goes overboard imo. The quintessential "candidate and partner and their kids" stuff is a staple of campaigning. I'm skeptical of it in general. I don't care if Ed's wife is a nice local girl, and I don't care if Mike's wife is an "educator." I'm not voting for their spouses, or their ability to procreate. It's irrelevant... but it makes nice campaign literature, I guess.


Mike's ads are alot more professionally made too, in my opinion.I haven't seen a single local political ad that looks good, except for Dan Inouye's, and of course those'll be sharp, you know? :) Ed's, as you mention, can be positively cheesy. But Mike and his whole "Star Search" singing business is ridiculous. And, as I mentioned, going from that "happy singing love and aloha" to his "Ed Case doesn't oppose gay marriage!" ad with the spooky monster movie music is jarring. He's giving up any "I'm just a nice guy under attack!" card.

hanai
October 17th, 2004, 09:44 PM
Well, in my case, I don't see a lot of good things he's done. What I do see is a single-issue candidate (homophobia) whose issue is extraordinarily divisive, and I don't want another man like that in the US House; there are enough like him there already (See Musgrave, Tancredo, et. al.).

Fortunately for me, I'm in the 1st District, not the 2nd.

Single issue? He's done alot at a grass-roots level, and on the City Council, probably the most effective freshman councilman ever. Checking his website will show detailed policy proposals for the Economy, Education Reform, government reform, etc. So its highly misleading to call him a one-issue candidate.

--
Wa'ahila Ridge:

When a utility company announced plans to place huge towers and high voltage lines on Wa'ahila Ridge above the historic neighborhoods of Palolo, St. Louis Heights, and Manoa, Mike joined with preservation groups and others in opposition. Mike led a signature drive collecting about 12,000 of the 15,000 signatures gathered statewide, which was a major factor in persuading the state to protect Wa'ahila Ridge.

Mike Protected Our Water Supply

As a City Councilman, Mike has continued to fight for the environment. Shortly after his election, Mike discovered that developers and supportive politicians were quietly moving forward a plan to allow a garbage dump to be built in Kunia over the Pearl Harbor Aquifer, the source of fresh drinking water for 70% of Oahu's people.

Recognizing that he needed to do something to protect underground drinking water on all the Islands, Mike introduced a precedent-setting resolution prohibiting the placement of landfills over aquifers. He rallied environmental groups, other lawmakers, and concerned citizens and got his resolution passed.

Mike also had to mobilize the troops when state senators tried to pass a bill to force the counties to allow garbage dumps to be built over our aquifers. In a dramatic victory for Hawai'i's citizens, the senate bill was pulled back moments before its final reading.

Bruddah Iz
When lack of funds threatened to derail the establishment of a permanent tribute to the late, internationally-renowned musician, Bruddah Iz, supporters of the project went to Mike Gabbard for help. Appealing to local businesses and Iz fans as far away as the mainland, Mike raised $20,000 to make the Bruddah Iz tribute in Wai'anae a reality.

"I've always been a fan of Bruddah Iz but I hadn't heard of the effort to honor him with a sculpture until the artist, Jan-Michelle Sawyer came to my office," Mike said. "As soon as I got the blessing of Iz's wife, Marlene Kamakawiwo'ole, I set out to do whatever I could to ensure that one of Hawai'i's greatest sons would be appropriately honored - and in the place that meant so much to him: Wai'anae.

Bill 53
He has also introduced a bill to stop leasehold conversion, to stop the theft of lands from the hawaiian charitable trusts.

--

Regarding marriage, I bet you know ALOT of people who voted for the same-sex marriage ammendment that Mike spearheaded, do you think they should all be fired from their jobs for alleged 'homophobia' too? I've somewhat followed Gabbard's activities from the 90s till now..

Actually, I think alot of people are misled by the vitriolic diatribes of homosexual activists against Mike. Look whos hating? He's received death threats and picketing at his businesses...just for his stance on marriage being between a man and a woman...I think that shows the intolerance of the 1st ammendment displayed by certain vocal minorities.

But honestly, objectively speaking, if you compare Gabbard, what hes actually said about homosexuality, its actually compassionate and makes sense. The way some of these gays carry on its as if Mike is preaching that they deserve to die or something (totally not true) they're just trying to lump him by association to the radical groups who do preach such things.

The bulk of his argument against the promotion of homosexuality (not against homosexuals) is that it isn't necessarily an identity to be promoted, because it can be changed. There is a large and growing ex-gay community for example. So his point is, we shouldn't be misleading people that being gay is natural and normal by reason of being unchangeable...when it isn't. And so by extension, why pretend that gay marriage is the same as heterosexual marriage, it isn't. And a huge majority of Hawaii residents and people across the country agree with his position, so thats hardly reason to call him a homophobe. Calling him a homophobe exposes an elitist and divisive attitude towards most people in our state & country. He isn't calling anyone names that I've seen...look at the man, his message, his record, not the hype...

I'm more concerned about Case's position, against the will of Hawaii's people. He doesn't represent all Hawaii, more like...2% of hawaii.

kamlost
October 18th, 2004, 01:54 AM
why aren't people making a scene over the other candidates who receive a lot of money ($2000 and higher) from those listed as homemakers, self-employed - other similar stuff? doesn't make much sense.

Lotsa stereotyping going into this thing.. :\

Haha, Gabbard's got a great voice though.

Seems like there are a few frustrated singers amongst us ;)

pzarquon
October 18th, 2004, 07:00 AM
Single issue? He's done alot at a grass-roots level, and on the City Council, probably the most effective freshman councilman ever.Hey, Wa'ahila, dumps and aquifers, Iz... all good stuff. Why aren't these things at the heart of his expensive ads (not just on his website), rather than bad karaoke or "gay marriage = doom" melodrama? Honestly, I know very little about Gabbard's time on the council, although recently - considering the only time councilmembers made headlines was when they were in trouble - perhaps this is a good thing.

You raise a good point, generally, that while Mike Gabbard certainly hasn't dropped gay marriage as a fundamental element of his campaign, the public certainly hasn't forgotten how central he was to the whole debate, and how strongly - at that time - he was the voice of a single side on a single, contentious issue.

Because I felt strongly about said issue, I still feel strongly that Gabbard is the wrong choice to represent me at the national level. I'm more than willing to accept that there are thousands of my fellow residents who think his position represents them and will vote accordingly.


Regarding marriage, I bet you know ALOT of people who voted for the same-sex marriage ammendment that Mike spearheaded, do you think they should all be fired from their jobs for alleged 'homophobia' too?
Not at all. Half of my friends voted against it. I disagreed with much of their justifications for it, but I'm confident they thought a lot about it, and respect them for it. As you said, it was a majority vote. I disagreed with how it came to a vote in the first place, but, the people spoke.

But sadly, I do not agree with you that Mike is a "moderate" on the issue, or just a smiling, happy "traditionalist." There might be very reasonable reasons to oppose gay marriage, but a lot of the things he said amounted to the flat demonification of homosexuals as a group. Just the soundtrack to his "Case on Gay Marriage" ad proves how he likes to frame the battle.


The bulk of his argument against the promotion of homosexuality (not against homosexuals) is that it isn't necessarily an identity to be promoted, because it can be changed.
The only people who believe in the existence of an "ex-gay community" are its supposed members, and the groups that benefit the most by their existence.

Do I think there are homosexuals who think they've reformed? Absolutely. God and religion is a powerful motivator. But there are also people who believe with all their hearts that they've been abducted by aliens, or had coffee with Elvis in the Bronx in 1973. There are easily just as many people who are straight, experimented, and regretted it. And just as many people faking it to further their agendas.

The primary impetus behind the movement is a religious one; the term alone is enough for friends and families of homosexuals to wield against them, to reform them. Not a single credible medical, psychological, or sociological group has authenticated them. And given the only places these "ex-gay" groups surface, there's plenty of reason to doubt them.

I don't believe being gay is a choice. Obviously, most gay people don't think so either. But since this is more a discussion about gay marriage, let's pretend for a moment that it is.

So what?

The argument, on the marriage issue, that homosexuality "isn't necessarily an identity to be promoted" is probably the weakest one. On the base of it, after all, you have two rational, consenting, committed adults wishing to make their domestic, financial, and other affairs official. Two people who want to make a family unit, a more stable family unit, and where kids are involved, isn't this something we want?

But beyond that... what of other threats to the "sanctity" of marriage? Couples who get married but never have kids... the horror! Isn't that what marriage is ultimately for? Or, couples who get married for selfish reasons, for money, for the hell of it (Britney Spears, anyone)? Or, maybe those couples that constitute half of the marriages out there... ones that end in divorce?

All of the above may be things people don't like, but they (1.) represent the highs and lows you get when you accept free will and conscious choice and (2.) have not done more or less damage to your (in the generic sense) marriage or to the institution at large than a gay marriage would.

After all, Massachusetts is still standing. The real, net effect of gay marriage? More happiness and love in the world, I think.

Anyway, my main point was rambled out way up there. Gabbard may not be a "single-issue candidate," but he's not trying very hard to dispel that impression. And on that single issue, I wholeheartedly disagree with his stand, and would oppose him at the polls against a wide range of other candidates (perhaps moreso than I support Case).

But why should Gabbard worry, right? For voters who strongly agree with him on his signature issue, I'm sure they're pleased as punch to give him their vote. And him plus Bush means an even greater chance of writing a restriction of states' rights and individual's rights into our Constitution.

Glen Miyashiro
October 18th, 2004, 08:10 AM
What pzarquon said.

Linkmeister
October 18th, 2004, 08:18 AM
In response to my saying I see a single-issue candidate, Hanai said:
Single issue? He's done alot at a grass-roots level, and on the City Council, probably the most effective freshman councilman ever. Checking his website will show detailed policy proposals for the Economy, Education Reform, government reform, etc. So its highly misleading to call him a one-issue candidate.

That may all be true, but if you look at the ads, he's portraying himself as a man with one issue: gay-bashing.

Perception is, if not everything, quite a bit of what persuades people to vote for a particular candidate.

Tutulady
October 18th, 2004, 06:04 PM
Well, in my case, I don't see a lot of good things he's done. What I do see is a single-issue candidate (homophobia) whose issue is extraordinarily divisive, and I don't want another man like that in the US House; there are enough like him there already (See Musgrave, Tancredo, et. al.).

Fortunately for me, I'm in the 1st District, not the 2nd.Here, here! I am in his district and won't vote for him because HE IS A ONE ISSUE CANDIDATE.

Tutulady
October 18th, 2004, 06:08 PM
What pzarquon said.Double ditto (to meet 10 character minimum requirement of this board. LOL)

Tutulady
October 18th, 2004, 06:09 PM
In response to my saying I see a single-issue candidate, Hanai said:

That may all be true, but if you look at the ads, he's portraying himself as a man with one issue: gay-bashing.

Perception is, if not everything, quite a bit of what persuades people to vote for a particular candidate.My sentiments exactly.

hanai
October 18th, 2004, 08:38 PM
Here, here! I am in his district and won't vote for him because HE IS A ONE ISSUE CANDIDATE.

Sounds like you're a one issue voter, that all you care about is whether a candidate promotes homosexual 'marriage' or not. Councilman Gabbard, for Distict 1 Waia'nae Coast, has done alot of work on all the issues, such as protectin the enivronment, hawaii's water, fighting ice, and stopping the theft of hawaiian homelands, see http://www.supportbill53.com. So its highly DISHONEST to call him a one-issue candidate, shame on you guys.

Your little posts attacking Mike's stance on marriage isn't going to affect reality, because out in real life, real Hawaii, most people agree with Mike and in fact hugely respect him for his public service in that and other areas.

Case was elected by 9% of the voters in the special-election, and he is very ineffective he only passed 1 bill (renaming a post office on maui) out of 20 bills!!!

Gabbard is endorsed by the Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, Gabbard's bills willl be passed thur congress instead of failed like Case's, so he can effectively represent Hawaii's concerns on reforming Education, fighting ice, protecting the envrionment. And yes, protecting the family, which is the cornerstone to our society and a big part of hawaii's ohana culture of aloha.

In the liberal countries of Europe where homosexual marriage is legal, the rates of heterosexual marriages have dropped hugely with a high percentage (higher than US) chidlren being born out of wedlock and in single parent homes.

Hawaii's culture of big family, marriage and values should be protected ,not undermined. Thats what unique about this place and thats why I like to live Hawaii.

Homosexual marraige has never been a right and you guys should think about the consequences insead of rabidly advocating a dangerous social reform on that scale. If marriage isn't sex-specific, then anyone could marry for the tax benefits, I shoudln't have to spell out the ramifications of that...

A married couple man and wife is not equal to a homosexual couple, so rewarding and promoting the homosexual couple as being equal negative impact on society, simply because its a false proposition. The gay couple can't procreate. The people who advocate these destructive things such as gay marriage are often very selfish people who have no concept or concern of society at large, only themselves.

And Btw. the ex-gay movement is real and ever-growing. The largest amount of gay's come from single families or from families where they had difficulties relating with their same sex parent, causing them to seek affection from a same-sex relationship. Theres no scientific proof that gays are born that way, on the the contrary there is ever growing evidence for the envrionemtn/nurture causation, even the gay advocacy groups themselves admit this.

pzarquon
October 19th, 2004, 07:34 AM
Well, Hanai, you are right on one point - it looks like a lot of us discount Mike Gabbard because of his strong, persistent, frighteningly obsessive focus on just one issue. You made a couple of good points about his "other works." Yet, even in castigating us for focusing on gay marriage, the bulk of what you offer are arguments not only against gay marriage, but against homosexuals in general.

I have to say, I find this quite illustrative of the Gabbard mindset, and more reason why I doubt he'd promote any remotely reasonable, moderate policy in D.C. above the more divisive, overtly discriminatory ones. Maybe he'll get a statue to Iz in the capitol as a crowd pleaser, but he'd also align himself with more extreme forces that, in short, I strongly oppose.


Gabbard is endorsed by the Speaker of the House Dennis HastertAs noted earlier in this thread, this is a "partnership" that might warm the cockles of the Republican base, but just as easily scares away those who find Hastert to be a positively frightening figure in American politics. There are lots of powerful Republicans to name drop, but I hope Gabbard isn't crowing too hard about that one.


In the liberal countries of Europe where homosexual marriage is legal, the rates of heterosexual marriages have dropped hugely with a high percentage (higher than US) chidlren being born out of wedlock and in single parent homes.C'mon, Hanai, this is the very definition of a "spurious relationship." Children being born out of wedlock and in single parent homes are on the rise everywhere, with no causal link to homosexuality or gay marriage. You could just as easily blame it on rising global temperatures, or the growing prevalence of cell phones. Besides, demonizing single-parent households is weak. Single parents have successfully raised kids in this country for decades... and if there's one thing we learned from the rose-colored 50s, sometimes a strong single-parent family is better than parenting by a strained or even abusive couple.


And yes, protecting the family, which is the cornerstone to our society and a big part of hawaii's ohana culture of aloha. Hawaii's culture of big family, marriage and values should be protected, not undermined.You're starting to reach. Honestly, there are some reasonable arguments against gay marriage, but you're going in the opposite direction. Invoking "The Hawaiian Way" as a weapon against homosexuality is especially disingenous, since ancient Hawaiians (and Polynesians before them) not only tolerated, but in some cases revered, homosexuals - and definitely valued and respected homosexual relationships. Even the earliest Europeans noted this. Even today, homosexuals are not demonized in Hawaiian culture the way you seem to think they are.


If marriage isn't sex-specific, then anyone could marry for the tax benefits, I shoudln't have to spell out the ramifications of that. [...] The gay couple can't procreate. The people who advocate these destructive things such as gay marriage are often very selfish people who have no concept or concern of society at large, only themselves.
Again, Hanai, take a wider look at what you're saying. People might get married just for money? People might get married even though they can never have kids and are being selfish? For crying out loud, this is not a problem with homosexuals, this is a problem with humans. For better or worse, you give humans free will, and they'll use that will. Heterosexuals marry for convenience, have marriages without kids, get divorced... I mean, on those kinds of grounds, heterosexuals can be more evil: at least gay couples are less likely to have abortions.

The value judgements implicit in what you're saying are scary.


Theres no scientific proof that gays are born that way, on the the contrary there is ever growing evidence for the envrionemtn/nurture causation, even the gay advocacy groups themselves admit this.
I'd love to see some citations on that last assertion. Hell, I won't go so far as to say that science has closed the books on the question, but it's no stretch to say there is easily more and more evidence that homosexuality is biological... and occasionally, not limited to us wacky humans, either.

Tutulady
October 19th, 2004, 06:54 PM
Sounds like you're a one issue voter, that all you care about is whether a candidate promotes homosexual 'marriage' or not. Councilman Gabbard, for Distict 1 Waia'nae Coast, has done alot of work on all the issues, such as protectin the enivronment, hawaii's water, fighting ice, and stopping the theft of hawaiian homelands, see http://www.supportbill53.com. So its highly DISHONEST to call him a one-issue candidate, shame on you guys.And you know me soooo well I'm sure (Not).

BKHale2007
October 21st, 2004, 07:53 AM
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?3bd2769a-ce47-40ee-ba03-33aa6d3c88a1

Congressional Candidates Exchange Blows
Ed Case Challenges Mike Gabbard to Prove His Ethnicity; Gabbard Fires Back
By Ed Case/Mike Gabbard, 10/21/2004 7:38:32 AM
Editor's Note: This is the fifth letter from U.S. Rep. Ed Case, D-Hawaii, District 2, to City Council Member Mike Gabbard, who is Case's opponent in the coming congressional election. And this exchange also includes Gabbard's response, following Case's letter.

It seems to me that HawaiiReporter.com is covering the Case-Gabbard race in more detail than other media outlets, especially the daily newspapers.

pzarquon
October 21st, 2004, 08:17 AM
It seems to me that HawaiiReporter.com is covering the Case-Gabbard race in more detail than other media outlets, especially the daily newspapers.Well, one, Gabbard refuses to play with the media at all, except if journalists do their "interviews" via e-mail and let him pick and choose what questions to answer. And two, most of this back and forth has been essentially a "virtual duel." HawaiiReporter.com has the benefit of a policy that allows them to republish verbatim whatever anyone sends them.

Whether or not a mainstream media outlet would or should pick up on the conflict, and - for example, factcheck Gabbard's former school or ask Case who told him Gabbard was claiming Native Hawaiian ancestry - is a decent question.

The branching off in this latest flap over Gabbard's family is just bizzare.


In other words, Ed, what exactly is it you want to say about my children and their names? What is it exactly you are trying to say between the lines? Why don’t you come out into the light and just make your accusations straight up front instead of engaging in all this innuendo?

Gabbard's site lists five children: Bhakti (33), Jai (30), Ryan (28), Tulsi (23), and Vrindavan (20). I wouldn't have thought much about it, but Gabbard's defensiveness is palpable. Of course, Ryan is a perfectly good name... :) On the others, I can only imagine the bristling is over the implied link to or the influence of SIF (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Science_of_Identity_Foundation).

Here's a "Letter to the Editor (http://www.kaleo.org/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/12/04/3ded95047e3c8)" from Ka Leo in December 2002 that seems to directly connect the SIF and Gabbard name dots. (Note it says "Aryan" instead of Ryan.) It also lays flat out the suspicions some have over the Gabbards' current and widely flaunted devotion to Christianity.

Vanguard
October 21st, 2004, 12:13 PM
Gabbard's site lists five children: Bhakti (33), Jai (30), Ryan (28), Tulsi (23), and Vrindavan (20). I wouldn't have thought much about it, but Gabbard's defensiveness is palpable. Of course, Ryan is a perfectly good name... :) On the others, I can only imagine the bristling is over the implied link to or the influence of SIF (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Science_of_Identity_Foundation).

It's not just having a phase with 1970's "Indophelia". These names span thirteen years (Bhakti 33 through Vrindavan 20). They're not merely Hindu names, but they are remarkably Gaudiya Vaishnava (although I've never seen Aryan being used among the Gaudiyas). Gaudiya Vaishnavism has only been widespread in the west for the past 38 years, and since the corruption of ISKCON caused the popularity to wane in the late 70's/early 80's, there are very few outlets of Gaudiya Vaishnavism available in the west. You have ISKCON, rtvk, some "Gaudiya Math" contingents scattered throughout the world, a very small babaji sect following, and of course SIF.

Whoever Mike Gabbard is, he is someone who at the height of a federal political election, is claiming vehemently to be a longtime Catholic, yet in thirteen years of active childrearing, you have 4 strikingly Gaudiya Vaishnava names, and one name which can go either way (Aryan? Ryan?). As someone who was raised a Roman Catholic, baptized and confirmed, in a big Catholic community, I've never met anyone Catholic who has named their children Hindu, Muslim, Gaudiya Vaishnava, etc. names in lieu of a Christian name, and at least 4 out of 5, for that matter!

Indeed, people change (we see how John Kerry, even George W Bush, frequently change their minds), but why the tight-lipness about that past? When people ponder John Kerry's jaded past as war hero versus medal and ribbon thrower, what would happen if John Kerry exhibited half the sanctimonious indignance that Mike Gabbard has exhibited in response to questions of his past throughout the race? His polls would spiral even further down than they are already, and for that reason, I simply cannot wait until I see the results of this US congressional seat election.

Miulang
October 21st, 2004, 12:19 PM
I dunno why people gotta focus so much on a candidate's religious upbringing. Isn't that putting the church together with state when you look at a candidate that way? I wouldn't care if s/he worshipped at St. Mattress or at the bowling alley :) : what counts to me is, can this person do the job he promises to do if he's elected?

Miulang

Glen Miyashiro
October 21st, 2004, 01:07 PM
I dunno why people gotta focus so much on a candidate's religious upbringing. Isn't that putting the church together with state when you look at a candidate that way? I wouldn't care if s/he worshipped at St. Mattress or at the bowling alley :) : what counts to me is, can this person do the job he promises to do if he's elected?
Because a person's religious upbringing can give you a shorthand guess at how he is likely to view many political issues. It's not perfect, but it's more useful than harmful.

Linkmeister
October 21st, 2004, 01:12 PM
Because a person's religious upbringing can give you a shorthand guess at how he is likely to view many political issues. And also because his fixation on gay marriage is so closely aligned with that of the religious right in this country that it's a reasonable guess that he'd not stop being aligned with that view if he were elected.

pzarquon
October 21st, 2004, 01:35 PM
I dunno why people gotta focus so much on a candidate's religious upbringing.What Glen and Link said. A candidate's religious leanings is a significant and reasonable factor both among voters (look at how Bush does among born again Christians, who empathise with his professed spiritual turnaround), and within the campaigns themselves (as noted, Gabbard is definitely making "Christian values" a centerpiece of his platform).

A person who is not fully familiar with a candidate's positions on specific issues might have more faith in the candidate's decisionmaking overall if the voter identifies with him on a spiritual or moral level. "He sees our place in the universe the same way, and I expect he will advocate policies that reinforce that." Many of my friends are very devout Christians, and while they have significant concerns about Bush's performance to date, they still give him the benefit of the doubt because of his beliefs.

Of course, religion is a funny thing. One, you can't please everyone. Among Christians, there are wide swaths to the left and right of Bush who actually think he's wrong for them -- because he's not devout enough, or too fundamentalist. Meanwhile, I've often suspected that we'll see a successful presidential candidate of a different ethnicity than "white" and a different gender than "male" before we'll see one with a religious persuasion other than some flavor of Christian. It matters to people that much.

Miulang
October 21st, 2004, 02:34 PM
Of course, religion is a funny thing. One, you can't please everyone. Among Christians, there are wide swaths to the left and right of Bush who actually think he's wrong for them -- because he's not devout enough, or too fundamentalist. Meanwhile, I've often suspected that we'll see a successful presidential candidate of a different ethnicity than "white" and a different gender than "male" before we'll see one with a religious persuasion other than some flavor of Christian. It matters to people that much.
The next thing someone is bound to say is that if an agnostic ran for public office and hid that fact by calling himself "Christian" or whatever, that s/he would vote for that person (all other things being equal) just because he declared himself to be of a certain religion? I know of many lapsed Catholics and Christians who don't belong to or worship at any particular church. Does that make them "better" than a politician who doesn't use his religion or nonreligion as an advertising tool? :confused:

Miulang

Vanguard
October 21st, 2004, 03:25 PM
I dunno why people gotta focus so much on a candidate's religious upbringing. Isn't that putting the church together with state when you look at a candidate that way? I wouldn't care if s/he worshipped at St. Mattress or at the bowling alley :) : what counts to me is, can this person do the job he promises to do if he's elected?

Miulang

Does the phrase "Qui Male Agit Odit Lucem" mean anything to you? It should.

It's a legal maxim which means "He who behaves badly hates the light.” It's also John 3:20 of the New Testament.

The names MG gave to his children would make any Krishna married couple happy to bestow to their kids. Again, over a thirteen year period at least. Why become indignant and upset when anyone tries to talk religion? Why is MG so closed mouthed about an aspect of his spiritual life so major, that he saw fit to name at least 4 out of 5 of his known children in the Gaudiya Vaishnavism tradition?

We live in America, the country where religious freedom is one of the biggest staples to brag about concerning our everyday life. If MG is unable to discuss an aspect of his life, which at the very least was such a significant part of his past that he saw fit to name at least 4 out of 5 of his children in the tradition, and at most, a huge part of his present lifestyle, who can trust someone like this to be their representitive in Washington DC? How can you expect someone like that, who writes their own definition of truth and disclosure, to hold your interests on Capitol Hill? Again,

QUI MALE AGIT ODIT LUCEM!

Miulang
October 21st, 2004, 03:39 PM
We live in America, the country where religious freedom is one of the biggest staples to brag about concerning our everyday life. If MG is unable to discuss an aspect of his life, which at the very least was such a significant part of his past that he saw fit to name at least 4 out of 5 of his children in the tradition, and at most, a huge part of his present lifestyle, who can trust someone like this to be their representitive in Washington DC? How can you expect someone like that, who writes their own definition of truth and disclosure, to hold your interests on Capitol Hill? Again,

QUI MALE AGIT ODIT LUCEM!
Sure it does. But what about "separation of church and state?" when talking about politics? I give more of a rat's patootie about keeping religion out of politics. Just because Case is willing to talk about his faith, why is it requisite for Gabbard to talk about his? Isn't that religious freedom, too? And if you want to talk the Constitution, what about the 5th Amendment?

Illigitimi non carborundum!

Miulang

Vanguard
October 21st, 2004, 03:42 PM
Illigitimi non carborundum!

Tell that to the people who died at Waco.

Miulang
October 21st, 2004, 03:44 PM
Illigitimi non carborundum!

Tell that to the people who died at Waco.
Um, I can't. They're all daaid, remember? :rolleyes: I am totally ambivalent to the outcome of this particular race because whoever wins will not represent me or my best interests. I bring all of this up as a philosophical point.

Miulang :)

pzarquon
October 21st, 2004, 03:53 PM
Sure it does. But what about "separation of church and state?" when talking about politics? I give more of a rat's patootie about keeping religion out of politics. Just because Case is willing to talk about his faith, why is it requisite for Gabbard to talk about his? Isn't that religious freedom, too? And if you want to talk the Constitution, what about the 5th Amendment?Miulang, Gabbard is not being called on his religious affiliations "to be a witness against himself" (is that what you meant?) out of spite. It is because he, independently, declared his religion to be a relevant and central part of his campaign.

It's one thing to demand to know the spiritual leanings of a candidate who, like you, feels it's irrelevant (though I'd offer that such a candidate probably would have an uphill battle to get elected). I agree, for the most part, that it's no one's beeswax. But if Gabbard is going to parade around under the Christian banner - invoking it in his stance against gay marriage and abortion, citing his Catholic upbringing as a foundation for his interest in public service - he can't pretend that questions about that faith are out of bounds.

As a non-Christian, I would personally find a Christian-centric campaign and policy model to be troubling. But I can also see how a Christian voter might find comfort in it. But if I were, say, a member of the Church of the Subgenius, and a candidate comes out and waves the Church of the Subgenius flag to say, "Hey, I'm just like you!" You bet I'd want to be confident that the candidate's committment to our supposedly shared faith is sound, and not just pandering.

Like Vangard said, it's not so much that some folks care if Gabbard is Christian, or that he was once a devoted member of a Krishna group... but that he is stunningly silent on his Krishna past. Hell, if he came right out and said, "I once felt that way, but now I feel this way," that'd settle a heap of questions. Instead, it's a mysterious black hole that constitutes a pretty big piece of the Gabbard story.

Vanguard
October 21st, 2004, 04:00 PM
I bring all of this up as a philosophical point.

Cool :D Well I guess in my haste, I forgot to mention that if someone wants to non-disclose completely concerning religion, I think that's a step better than claiming some other religion, but then have this proverbial black hole where all we have are questions, and a lot seems to conflict with what he claims to believe. And all we get for answers are huffy, indignant answers which don't really explain much.

Miulang
October 21st, 2004, 04:00 PM
Like Vangard said, it's not so much that some folks care if Gabbard is Christian, or that he was once a devoted member of a Krishna group... but that he is stunningly silent on his Krishna past. Hell, if he came right out and said, "I once felt that way, but now I feel this way," that'd settle a heap of questions. Instead, it's a mysterious black hole that constitutes a pretty big piece of the Gabbard story.
Who knows what lurks in the minds of the Republicans as a group anyway? Maybe he thinks he can't admit to some of his past because maybe he's like the Prez...can't admit he's not purrrfect? Can anybody prove that he did anything evil if in fact he embraced the SIF in his sordid past? Why is his stonewalling any worse than someone who professes to be a religious believer and then is uncovered as not having attended a religious ceremony in years? Maybe he's got the "open mouth, insert foot" syndrome that so many politicians seem to have been infected with this year. Who knows.

Miulang

P.S. and if someone really wanted to do some digging around, try to obtain the birth records of his kids and see if those were their given names that were legally registered with the State Health Dept.

Miulang
October 21st, 2004, 05:41 PM
In case anybody really cares, I gleaned the following about the Gabbard family through public records:

Carol (wife) is a speech pathologist, BOE member, homeschooled her kids, ran on the family values (anti-gay) platform for BOE in 2000 with son Ryan

Bhakti- Manager, Holiday Photo and Electronics, San Francisco
Jai- US Cellular
Ryan-only thing I could find was that he ran with his mom in 2000 for the BOE on the "family values" ticket
Tulsi Gabbard Tamayo (Democrat)- 42nd Representative Dist. Oahu
Vrindavan-Faculty & Student Judicial Committee, John Jay College of NYU (gonna be a lawyer)

Seems like a fairly normal family to me, just happen to have kinda New-Agish Indian names (Bhakti, Jai and Vrindavan) but Tulsi could be Samoan or Filipino. I googled Tulsi and discovered that it was Hindu for a medicinal herb. Maybe Carol was a yoga devotee in her earlier years. Probably eats yogurt and granola since she homeschooled her kids.

As I said, I am neutral on this race because I can't vote for either candidate. I am only doing what my journalism training taught me to do: look for quantifiable facts from the public record. I can also say that I studied the vedic astrology (jyotish) for awhile, but that doesn't make me a Hare Krishna.

Miulang

Vanguard
October 22nd, 2004, 04:31 AM
Let's just assume arguendo for the moment, that the names selected were indeed from some larkish pursuit (inspiration from teaching hatha yoga, something to do with jyotish, etc.). MG likes to talk about religion. He likes to bring in "Roman Catholicism", and brings up numerous topics, including teaching at a school with a PO Box #, which seems almost non-existent. They respect all religions? Fine, then why focus on naming children with a Gaudiya Vaishnava slant in a 13 year period? Why, out of so many things MG likes to talk about, is this something he becomes extremely sensitive and cagey with?

Privacy and the fifth amendment is one thing, but public servants, especially those running on a Federal level, should be well prepared to answer questions about their life. Public light prevails. The very same political party which MG represents and supports put William J Clinton through the wringer over what the latter emphatically preceived to be a private matter.

Miulang
October 22nd, 2004, 06:58 AM
Privacy and the fifth amendment is one thing, but public servants, especially those running on a Federal level, should be well prepared to answer questions about their life. Public light prevails. The very same political party which MG represents and supports put William J Clinton through the wringer over what the latter emphatically preceived to be a private matter.

All of you, who have to vote for either Case or Gabbard, are going to have to assess that for yourself. If it was me, I would ask what Case has done for you in Congress v. what Gabbard has done for Kailua (and privately maybe say that MG was being a jerk for withholding information about his private life). Regarding the brouhaha caused by the Republicans over Clinton's sexual indiscretions, quid pro quo is a main reason to be against a candidate of the party that skewered Clinton?

Miulang

Pelix
October 22nd, 2004, 07:55 PM
Aren't we lucky Muilang? I too live in the first district. And if I lived in the 2nd district, I would move out ASAP if Ed is re-elected. And btw, I'm extending an invitation to all of you if that happens. YOu can come over to the 1st district and stay at my place. Just bring your beddings.

Who are you voting for Muilang?

surfdog
October 23rd, 2004, 08:20 PM
Somebody came along and stole my Ed Case yard sign a few days ago. This is stupid. I went and picked up a new sign at the Dem headquarters the next day. All it accomplished was to make me even more strongly supportive of Ed Case.



Seems like a fairly normal family to me, just happen to have kinda New-Agish Indian names (Bhakti, Jai and Vrindavan) ...
Liking to eat granola is very different from being a long term devotee of a fringe religious cult. Mike Gabbard was/is a Disciple of Chris Butler, a.k.a. Jagad Guru, Siddha Swarupa Ananda, or Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa. Google a few of those names.

As you can imagine, the fact the Mike Gabbard is a Hare Krishna doesn't sit too well with his Christian base, so he tries his best to keep it hidden.

Can't say I blame him.

Miulang
October 23rd, 2004, 08:30 PM
Liking to eat granola is very different from being a long term devotee of a fringe religious cult. Mike Gabbard was/is a Disciple of Chris Butler, a.k.a. Jagad Guru, Siddha Swarupa Ananda, or Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa. Google a few of those names.

As you can imagine, the fact the Mike Gabbard is a Hare Krishna doesn't sit too well with his Christian base, so he tries his best to keep it hidden.

Can't say I blame him.

Since he touts his Catholicism and can be shown via the public records as a devotee of Jagad Guru, maybe he's just trying to get into "heaven" any way he can! :)

Give you an example: my dad was raised Buddhist, went to a Methodist boarding school (where I'm sure he was forced to go to chapel regularly). When my brother and I came along, he took us to Buddhist church and Easter sunrise services! I swear, he could sing "Onward Christian Soldiers" with the most fervent Christian. In my life have attended, besides Buddhist services, Quaker services, Unitarian services, Bar Mitzvahs, Episcopalean services, High Mass, Baptist services, Protestant services, and Congregational services to name a few. Oh yeah, and in the past I have studied kabbalah, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, Jyotish, etc. etc.

I am a pantheistic agnostic! ;)

Miulang

hanai
October 24th, 2004, 12:45 AM
Children being born out of wedlock and in single parent homes are on the rise everywhere, with no causal link to homosexuality or gay marriage. You could just as easily blame it on rising global temperatures, or the growing prevalence of cell phones.


No link? Are you serious? Clearly you've never done any research into homosexuality beyond your local PFLAG indocrination and/or hollywood production.



You're starting to reach. Honestly, there are some reasonable arguments against gay marriage, but you're going in the opposite direction. Invoking "The Hawaiian Way" as a weapon against homosexuality is especially disingenous, since ancient Hawaiians (and Polynesians before them) not only tolerated, but in some cases revered, homosexuals - and definitely valued and respected homosexual relationships. Even the earliest Europeans noted this. Even today, homosexuals are not demonized in Hawaiian culture the way you seem to think they are.

LOL. Thats funny, how come then is the majority of opposition to homosexual marriage in Hawaii from the Hawaiian/Pacific Islander and Asian communities? And how come Mike got elected to be councilman of Nanakuli/Waianae, the most Hawaiian area on Oahu, if they're so reverent of homosexuals, by your logic they should hate Mike. Theres no Case signs that I've seen in Waianae or Waimanalo, strange since they revere homosexual marraige so much eh pzaraguon? I'd like to see you back up your argument with real life, would you walk up to a house of Mokes and ask if they revere Mahu...



I mean, on those kinds of grounds, heterosexuals can be more evil: at least gay couples are less likely to have abortions.

Less likely? Come again? You can't be serious...


Hell, I won't go so far as to say that science has closed the books on the question, but it's no stretch to say there is easily more and more evidence that homosexuality is biological... and occasionally, not limited to us wacky humans, either.

Do some research buddy:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ryanzempel/rz20041001.shtml
http://www.narth.com/menus/born.html
http://www.hawaii.gov/lrb/rpts95/sol/cpt5b.html
http://www.nea-exgay.org/
http://www.witnessfortheworld.org/pr091004.html

pzarquon
October 24th, 2004, 12:46 PM
Bless you, Hanai, but your response - continuing to focus purely on the demonification of homosexuals rather than focusing on the wide variety of other points one could make in debating the Case v. Gabbard race - is exactly why I think Gabbard continues to fail to make the case for his going to Washington.

To recap... Good questions: What did Ed Case do while in D.C.? What did Mike Gabbard do while on the city council? Bad questions: Aren't gays evil?

I'm fully willing to accept that Ed Case's record to date is lacking, and that Mike Gabbard actually produced results on the council (a statue for Iz! Yay!)... But it's what underlies Gabbard's motivation, and the singleminded focus demonstrated by some of his supporters, that scares the crap out of me.

hikiee
October 24th, 2004, 08:16 PM
We live in America, the country where religious freedom is one of the biggest staples to brag about concerning our everyday life.
You are right this is America, the country where religious freedom is one of the biggest staples. But not everyone likes to brag about one’s religion nor does mean that you have to. There is nothing wrong if someone does not let the world know about his or her religious practice or preference.

If Mike Gabbard is unable to discuss an aspect of his life, which at the very least was such a significant part of his past that he saw fit to name at least 4 out of 5 of his children in the tradition, and at most, a huge part of his present lifestyle, who can trust someone like this to be their representitive in Washington DC? How can you expect someone like that, who writes their own definition of truth and disclosure, to hold your interests on Capitol Hill? Again. QUI MALE AGIT ODIT LUCEM!
He has the right to keep his life private if he wishes to. Being in public service does not entail that everything about you, your family, your background, your family’s background becomes public information. Being in public service means that you serve the public and the country to the best of your ability. If and when elected to congress, this will not be the first time Mike Gabbard will be serving the public. With whatever family history, background he has, Mike Gabbard has already showed us that he is very capable of serving the public so there is no basis in your argument. This is an obvious fact which you failed to consider. You cannot deny his many years in public service. With the work attitude that he has, he can hold the interest of Hawaii on Capitol Hill.

How can you expect someone like that, who writes their own definition of truth and disclosure to hold your interests on Capitol Hill?
Perhaps this question should be addressed by our current Rep. Ed Case

Furthermore, did any of you see the articles on Honolulu Advertiser from yesterday’s news?

surfdog
October 24th, 2004, 08:26 PM
Hanai,

Your views, in my opinion, help to marginalize the Republican party.

By most accounts I would be considered a conservative. I'm a Christian, a registered Republican, and I have been happily married to a wonderful woman for many years (I'm a man, incidentally).

But I have actually been called a "homosexual extremist" by Gabbard supporters that I have spoken to, simply because I lack their particular fervor for being anti-gay.

Now, I'm no fan of gay marriage, but as we all know, Hawaii already has a constitutional ban on gay marriage that passed by a wide majority. What do you and Mike Gabbard propose we do? Pass a second constitutional amendment?

Gay marriage is already as illegal as it can ever be in Hawaii. It's a dead issue.

And the habit Gabbard supporters have of calling everyone who disagrees with them a "homosexual extremist" is really annoying.

I don't oppose Mike Gabbard because he's anti-gay. I oppose him because he's anti-Christian (and I don't much care for Hare Krishnas).

Vanguard
October 25th, 2004, 02:52 AM
You are right this is America, the country where religious freedom is one of the biggest staples. But not everyone likes to brag about one’s religion nor does mean that you have to. There is nothing wrong if someone does not let the world know about his or her religious practice or preference.

I'm not a politico, I'm just a regular guy who is curious of these matters. I find the amount of wiggling and flip flopping on this issue to be humorous at best. Some insist the guy is a Catholic, but when there's substantial proof toward another religion, the supports insist that religion is a private matter. MG doesn't consider it a private matter. He speaks quite emphatically about Roman Catholicism when the reporters are within earshot. Republican Christian Right is courted that way. But when there's some very clear evidence of Gaudiya Vaishnava influence and history of interaction with Siddhaswarupananda -- private! Don't wish to talk about it!

Someone even mentioned "the fifth amendment" right, typically used for criminal cases. Um, OK ... nobody is in court over this, this is all public record (words being spoken in public during a political campaign), but let's just superimpose the fifth amendment rights and limitations over what is being said on public record. MG speaks about Roman Catholicism. When Gaudiya Vaishnavism is brought into the arena, it gets ugly. Vehement accusations of "mud-slinging". See, someone who pleads the fifth amendment can't pick and choose what to testify. Once someone who pleads the fifth opens their mouth about something else, has just waived the right to use that amendment for that matter. Such witnesses who don't speak after speaking are held in contempt of court and can face jail time.

But this is not a court case. Which begs the next question, what's all this asinine talk on this thread about fifth amendment rights? MG chose to bring Christian religion in the forefront many times. Doesn't the first commandment say "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me"? Someone who made a conscious choice to bring religion into the forum, should be prepared to answer further questions, especially if people believe they have other interests which contradict the beliefs they freely broadcast.

It would make sense if the guy was once a Gaudiya Vaishnava, but then dumped that in favor of Christianity and spoke about that journey, but his silence over this subject is very conspicuous. To most observers I've seen, the silence of Butler and his followers concerning their organization and the silence of Gabbard over his previous (and/or current) spiritual fancies seem strongly in synch of one another.

Do people have the right to worship the God of their choice? Heck yes. Do people have a right to privacy? Sure! But if a candidate picks and chooses to make a strong issue out of what a couple of people here preceive to be a private matter, and portions of that issue are being evaded and shielded, that's pretty strange at best. Especially since we live in a country where freedom of religion is the hallmark. Whether he made a state of Iz or not, I personally don't see how you can trust someone like that.

pzarquon
October 25th, 2004, 07:19 AM
Results from the latest Star-Bulletin/KITV poll (http://starbulletin.com/2004/10/25/news/story2.html):
The poll shows... Democrat Ed Case with a 29-point lead over Republican Mike Gabbard in the 2nd Congressional District election... Of 319 people surveyed, 58 percent said they would vote for Case, 29 percent said Gabbard, 12 percent were undecided and 2 percent picked neither candidate.
Results from the latest Honolulu Advertiser poll (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Oct/25/ln/ln03p.html):
Case is ahead of Honolulu City Councilman Mike Gabbard 62 percent to 24 percent among likely voters in rural O'ahu and the Neighbor Islands... The poll found that 12 percent of rural O'ahu and Neighbor Island voters had not committed to either candidate, leaving Gabbard some room to narrow Case's advantage.

kamlost
October 25th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Hahah.. ur all kapuli..

At this point though it's funny because Case is "flip-flopping" too. He says he'll champion the rights of homosexuals and will fight for this advocacy and now he says he's not an advocate?? politics is just.. crazy

I read that on HOnolulu advertiser like hikeiekii is saying (please change your name!)

the poll is interesting! I read that too.. Does anyone know who Lingle is backing? Or is she keeping mum again?

Hey.. did you see the article on mauinews.com yesterday? I liked that one, because as a voter, I'd rather much listen to something that seems neutral.

hanai
October 25th, 2004, 09:48 PM
Hanai,

Gay marriage is already as illegal as it can ever be in Hawaii. It's a dead issue.

I don't oppose Mike Gabbard because he's anti-gay. I oppose him because he's anti-Christian (and I don't much care for Hare Krishnas).

Actually surfdog, same-sex marriage is not a dead issue, its a big issue in this years election nationwide, ecause federal judges, like in Massachussets, may still overturn hawaii's ban. Thats why Bush wanted a constitutional ammendment preventing judges from doing that. Case has already declared his intention to legalize gay marriage in Hawaii in the future, and his votes against the Marraige Protection Act prove it.

Mike Gabbard isn't anti-gay, God's word is that marriage is between one-man and one woman, and as a Christian I believe in that, I don't need Ed Case telling me that the bible is wrong, who is he to preach to us? I beleive in Mike Gabbard because he doesn't take his stance based on focus groups or politics, but on whats right...he beleives the people should decide these issues, not unelected judges. Gabbard is a strong believer in democracy and freedom.

Case on the other hand votes against the peopels will. As a democratic voter I will always vote against the candidate with fascist tendancies, and Case's voting record is unfortunately indicative of such a stance.

Btw calling Mike Gabbard anti-christian? And who do you think is a Christian...Case? Case with his firm stance against Christian values, who counts among his supporters such vehment atheist activists as Mitch Kahle, who said "Christianity is a superstition"?

I'm sorry and somewhat saddened that your demonizing the reputation of Mike Gabbard who I feel is a true follower of Jesus Christ. He tolerates so much hatred from the gay activists, and never says a harsh word back...because hs is following the example of Christ, who was also demonized and unfairly treated by those with selfish agendas, but the love of God shines strongly through all of that.

I'm also confident that as a Congressman Mike will be able to make a strong impact on so many issues facing us, hes such a hard methodical worker as his council record proves. He prevented developers from building a landfill on top of an aquifer that services 70% of oahu's water, that truly expresses his Aloha for everyone, he doesn't do these things for publicity. Contrast that to Case who issues self-congratulatory press releases for every minor approrpiations that he claims credit for...but does he actually do anything? Does Case ever organize people to make a difference in communites? He has done anything to stop Ice?

Ice is the biggest problem in many communities across the state espically Mike's council district and he has already been effective in helping organize resistance to it...just imagine what he could do on Congress, if we have a real l peoples advocate who cares about helping people, not just self promotion. Cases ads of him in DC where he brags about his job are embarassing and immature.

Please join me in voting for Mike Gabbard, I'm willing to give him a chance to make a change in our future instead of more of the same from out of touch democratic incumbents.

hanai
October 26th, 2004, 10:13 AM
From HawaiiReporter.com : Case campaign is SHIBAI

U.S. Rep. Ed Case, D-Hawaii, Second District, is faced with a surprisingly tough challenge by Republican Mike Gabbard, a Honolulu city council member. As if Case's money and incumbency weren't enough of an advantage, he has ducked real issues and run a down-and-dirty smear campaign against Gabbard. Apparently unwilling to truly discuss the issues with his opponent in a public forum, Case started circulating the story that it was Gabbard who refused to debate in front of television cameras (a lie that had to be corrected by the League of Women Voters). More recently, with Case's debate shibai still smoldering, the freshman Congressman decided to go on the offensive once again, this time publishing misleading "questions" about Gabbard's teaching credentials -- questions that could have been asked and answered privately, but were clearly designed to make Gabbard appear dishonest. Gabbard responded like a gentleman and the Case campaign has earned the dishonorable title of VFA Shibai Campaign No. 3.

Sherry
October 26th, 2004, 09:07 PM
Hi. I read through this and I wanted to share my story and thoughts.

I migrated to America because I looked forward to living in a country
were you can breath freedom—Freedom of speech, freedom of religion. These are ideals that made my decision to leave Pakistan final. I worked hard to learn English and train myself in trades I though would help my chances of moving to American. I am now here—I have been living in here for the past 15 years now. I have enjoyed the freedoms of America. But I am saddened to see religious racial or ethnic backgrounds being played up in this current congressional race. These should be irrelevant. American should
realize that they have something very valuable here. Regressing to
discriminating against a person’s religious past, ethnic and racial background is not desirable or necessary. It will bring about only discord and hate that
I experienced first hand in Pakistan. Ed Case should be ashamed of
himself for stooping to these negative tactics of "character assassination"
according the how newspapers have termed this. I agree when they say that he should stick to the issues. Besides, what right does he or any of you have to challenge someone’s religion? Gabbard says he’s a Catholic, he was
baptized a Catholic, he attends Catholic church. That’s that. The idea of
someone telling people that a person is lying about what religion they are is
bizzarre. A person is free to be whatever religion they want and they
are free to tell or not tell others what their religion is. Case and his
followers are so arrogant and dishonest to try to spread rumors about
the religion of someone else.

Shukriya

Vanguard
October 27th, 2004, 01:52 AM
Besides, what right does he or any of you have to challenge someone’s religion? Gabbard says he’s a Catholic, he was
baptized a Catholic, he attends Catholic church. That’s that. The idea of
someone telling people that a person is lying about what religion they are is
bizzarre.

Welcome to America. Unfortunately, countries like Iran and Pakistan are not the only ones with a prominent religious right. We've got the right wing Christian coalition in the USA, and nowadays, especially with a very prominent republican majority, it makes it ever important to make any connection you can to this Christian force. Especially in Hawaii, where she is one of the few states in the union that celebrates "Good Friday" as a state holiday (if not, the only state in the union who does this).

I don't like Bush, and I don't like Kerry. Similarly, I don't like these old guard democrats with various political connections, but I don't like jaded, one issue Republicans who make strong issues out of religion, but only like to pick and choose what segments of that life to broadcast, and seem embarassed or hostile when it's brought up.

Yeah I was baptized, too. I've also taken the beginning "sacrament/pillar/initiation/etc" in almost every major religious tradition in this world. But if I, hypothetically, were to go to Dearborn, Michigan, and campaign there among Arabs, tell them that I am a muslim, pray in their local temples for publicity and votes, but neglect to tell them that I've been 3-4 other religions since coming to know Islam and the extent of those interactions ... I couldn't do that. Not even for a lucrative public service record, sorry. Is it illegal? I don't believe so. I preceive it as being injudicious. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but that's it. What right did we have to pry into former president Clinton's private life? But we the people have the right to be upset that a public servant was non-forthcoming in his affairs, and even though they are private affairs, we have the right to distrust him as a result.

j3rr3y
October 27th, 2004, 12:29 PM
Welcome Sherri from Pakistan. Do you ever go back to visit?


We live in America, the country where religious freedom is one of the biggest staples to brag about concerning our everyday life.
America, the country where religious freedom is big.

Miulang, as far as your statement:
“Just because Case is willing to talk about his faith, why is it requisite for Gabbard to talk about his?”

I have to respectfully disagree. Case doesn’t have anywhere on his website about what his religion (or lack of) is. Gabbard has told voters more about his religion than any other candidate I know about in the history of Hawaii.

What scares me is why in the world Case finds the names, whereabouts and activities of Gabbard’s children relevant? I haven’t heard Case ONCE challenge Gabbard on the important issues we face. All I’ve heard from Case are personal attacks on Mike and his family. To me Case is the one who has something to hide – his miserable record and how out of touch with Hawaii’s people he is.

kamlost
October 27th, 2004, 05:32 PM
hi sherry and ummm... jerrey.. haha


From HawaiiReporter.com : Case campaign is SHIBAI

U.S. Rep. Ed Case, D-Hawaii, Second District, is faced with a surprisingly tough challenge by Republican Mike Gabbard, a Honolulu city council member. As if Case's money and incumbency weren't enough of an advantage, he has ducked real issues and run a down-and-dirty smear campaign against Gabbard. Apparently unwilling to truly discuss the issues with his opponent in a public forum, Case started circulating the story that it was Gabbard who refused to debate in front of television cameras (a lie that had to be corrected by the League of Women Voters). More recently, with Case's debate shibai still smoldering, the freshman Congressman decided to go on the offensive once again, this time publishing misleading "questions" about Gabbard's teaching credentials -- questions that could have been asked and answered privately, but were clearly designed to make Gabbard appear dishonest. Gabbard responded like a gentleman and the Case campaign has earned the dishonorable title of VFA Shibai Campaign No. 3.

I read this thing and Case did the same thing to Matsunaga when he was running for Governor. Matsunaga did an ad letting people know the truth about Ed Case’s votes in the state house, i.e. that Ed Case voted against the people of Hawaii even having the opportunity to vote on the issue of same-sex marriage.

Case responded by labeling Matsunaga a negative campaigner and said Matsunaga was being dishonest. Because this took place so late in the cmapiagn, Matsunaga never had an opportunity to prove what he was saying about Case is true. To this day, many people think Matsunaga was lying and engaging in negative campaigning. So Case has a history of using the tactic of character assassination against anyone who dares challenge his record and position on issues.

pzarquon
October 28th, 2004, 07:51 AM
So Case has a history of using the tactic of character assassination against anyone who dares challenge his record and position on issues."Character assassination" is a ridiculous charge. Here's a Honolulu Star-Bulletin article (http://starbulletin.com/2003/01/02/news/story3.html) and a Honolulu Advertiser article (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Jan/03/ln/ln16a.html) on the Case/Matsunaga spat over the ads. One, as you noted, it was Matsunaga first on the offensive, and Case who was responding. Two, as noted in the article, Case was complaining about how Matsunaga was framing his votes on the three issues - teacher raises, medical marijuana, and the same-sex marriage ballot initiative. Matsunaga said the votes meant {x}, Case said they meant {y}.

Nothing unexpected in any campaign. Standard politics.

And think about it. If anyone was doing some last-minute attacking, it was Matsunaga. Even allowing that Matsunaga was making some good points, it was an all-Democratic contest between two former law partners that had been almost cordial up until that point. Matsunaga himself created the overall impression that he had gone negative. That, plus blatantly invoking his father in the campaign after saying he wouldn't, is what turned me off, without any help from Case.

alohaj316
October 28th, 2004, 11:54 AM
From HawaiiReporter.com : Case campaign is SHIBAI

...Case started circulating the story that it was Gabbard who refused to debate in front of television cameras (a lie that had to be corrected by the League of Women Voters). More recently, with Case's debate shibai still smoldering, the freshman Congressman decided to go on the offensive once again, this time publishing misleading "questions" about Gabbard's teaching credentials -- questions that could have been asked and answered privately, but were clearly designed to make Gabbard appear dishonest.

Ed Case still has up on his website the above lies about Gabbard posted on October 11th. Case is consistent in trying to mislead us. Through a clerical error Gabbard had quoted the wrong source in some of his campaign material. Quotes were attributed to West Hawaii Today instead of the Hawaii Tribune Herald. Case put the following (with the headline in red letters) on his website. By posting this article from West Hawaii Today Case is, yet again, trying to make Gabbard look dishonest as if he is making up quotes and attributing them to Case!

Newspaper Calls Gabbard On Misrepresentation

The following appeared recently in West Hawai`i Today:

West Hawaii Today
Thursday, October 21, 2004 .

"Gabbard Web site falsifies WHT quotes"

"A pair of quotes on Mike Gabbard's Web site attributed to a West Hawaii Today Story do not exist in the newspaper the Web site claims as the source. The quotes on www.mikegabbard.com, which attempt to illustrate the opinion of Democratic U.S. Rep. Ed Case on gay marriage, are attributed to the March 8, 2004, issue of West Hawaii Today. While there are two stories regarding gay marriage in that issue, the quotes do not exist in either story. One of the quotes, "Case believes same-sex couples should be allowed to marry," also inaccurately misrepresents the story, which is about the Hawaii delegation's opposition to a Constitutional Amendment limiting marriage to people of opposite sexes."

Another false claim that has been on Case's website since the primary:

Case by 95%!
News Flash:

Final primary results in early this morning show Ed winning his primary with 95% of the votes cast -- the best showing of any candidate in a contested election throughout the state.

The Office of Elections final results show
Case 87.7%, Gentile 4.9%, Blank 7.4%, and Over Votes 0%.
Ed Case figures all the blank votes were for him!

BKHale2007
October 29th, 2004, 05:05 PM
Another local blogger's perspective

Oct. 30 [a postdate for I found this today]

Here's more background on the local scene, which may help explain why Hawaii now has been put in the "iffy" category for Kerry where his lead seemed solid before:

Dems made the mistake of taking Hawaii for granted. Hawaii Dems here have a reputation for corruption, as well, but people voted for them because they delivered the goods. But Dems lost the governorship to the awful Linda Lingle when the State of Hawaii ran out of pork. I've talked about some of her antics already.

The very popular Patsy Mink, the author of Title IX, is no longer with us. Mink's successor, Democrat Ed Case, is a fairly routine upper class white guy who has not made much of a mark in his three years in office. The Republicans have fielded a viable contestant for our/his congressional district, a guy named Mike Gabbard, for the first time in years. He is playing the homophobia and anti-choice cards really big, which resonates with the local people, especially the born-agains.

It's too late now to put up a big fight. Still, there are only 6 electoral votes in play.

What do you think?

Linkmeister
October 29th, 2004, 07:40 PM
Well, for one thing, there's only four electoral votes (one each for our two Senators and our two Representatives). The trouble with making easily discernible errors is that it costs the author credibility.

As for Case's inability to make a mark, in a House of Representatives run by the likes of Hastert and Delay, no Democratic freshman was gonna get much ink, much less accomplish a lot.

If I voted in that district I'd go for Case, if only because I don't want any more Republicans in the House. :(

BKHale2007
October 29th, 2004, 09:50 PM
As for Case's inability to make a mark, in a House of Representatives run by the likes of Hastert and Delay, no Democratic freshman was gonna get much ink, much less accomplish a lot.

Exactly! Mink got a lot accomplished not just because of her considerable smarts and personality but because the House was Democrat-majority for much of her tenure. Case hasn't been there long enough and he has to contend with a Republican-majority House led by the hardnosed Hammer (i.e., DeLay).

Meghan
October 29th, 2004, 10:59 PM
What scares me is why in the world Case finds the names, whereabouts and activities of Gabbard’s children relevant? I haven’t heard Case ONCE challenge Gabbard on the important issues we face. All I’ve heard from Case are personal attacks on Mike and his family. To me Case is the one who has something to hide – his miserable record and how out of touch with Hawaii’s people he is.

There are certainly many, very emphatic views here.

As a public school teacher, I would welcome having a congressman with a solid background in Education as Gabbard has. Education, Ice problem, budget deficit and transportation are the big issues that should be in focus. Like what J3rr3y was saying, details (whether they are true or not) such as why his kids are named Bhakti, Ryan or which religious faiths he has associated with should not even be of interest. We have got to look at the bigger picture. Which candidate has the ability to actually make a change in Hawaii? Someone who would try to foment religious discrimination to win an election? Or someone who campaigns on the issues? Case has not been impressive as our representative. We deserve someone better. I’m looking forward to a change; especially improvements in Education

kamlost
October 30th, 2004, 12:56 AM
Hi Meghan!

Are you a highschool teacher? preschool?

I just checked the Gabbard site, and the SHOPO endorsement is there. That's pretty amazing. It's kinda daunting too. It shuts down the rumor that Gabbard is a one-issue candidate. If he was.. I doubt he'd get the SHOPO endorsement.

Meghan
October 30th, 2004, 10:13 PM
Hi, kamlost.

I am teaching grade school right now.

Yes, the SHOPO endorsement is nice. So is the GrayPAC endorsement.

After reading all the information on his website, it's obvious that he is not a one-issue candidate.

hanai
October 31st, 2004, 12:32 AM
But if I, hypothetically, were to go to Dearborn, Michigan, and campaign there among Arabs, tell them that I am a muslim, pray in their local temples for publicity and votes, but neglect to tell them that I've been 3-4 other religions since coming to know Islam and the extent of those interactions ... I couldn't do that.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. What qualifies you to judge Mike Gabbards heart, to judge his sinceriety? Thats in his heart, between him and God. Your arrogance is astounding, as if you can judge only God can do that. In effect you are claiming to be God, putting yourself in a very dangerous position.

The more you make a fool out of yourself by presuming to judge his heart and relationship with God, the more people will see your intention, and Case's selfish ambition for what it is. We will say no to your campaign of lies, and embrace Mike Gabbards message of Aloha. Reject the un-Christian judgemental arrogance of Ed Case and his supporters!

Thanks for being a stellar example of Ed Case's supporters and central campaign strategy.Good work and keep it up, at this rate you'll probably inspire a record turnout of Christian voters for Mike Gabbard.

Vanguard
October 31st, 2004, 06:53 AM
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. What qualifies you to judge Mike Gabbards heart, to judge his sinceriety? Thats in his heart, between him and God. Your arrogance is astounding, as if you can judge only God can do that. In effect you are claiming to be God, putting yourself in a very dangerous position.

This is bad, comedy, hanai. But it is a textbook representation of the fanatical arc of the Christian right. When it comes to corruption and misrepresentation, time to quote "he who casts the first stone ..." but this rhetoric you quoted and supported about marriage being all about procreation and everything else being "selfish"? That sort of judgmental attitude is just fine. Those who have such hypocritical definitions of morality, want to lead us into their version of morality. Cute.

hanai
October 31st, 2004, 08:37 AM
This is bad, comedy, hanai. But it is a textbook representation of the fanatical arc of the Christian right. When it comes to corruption and misrepresentation, time to quote "he who casts the first stone ..." but this rhetoric you quoted and supported about marriage being all about procreation and everything else being "selfish"? That sort of judgmental attitude is just fine. Those who have such hypocritical definitions of morality, want to lead us into their version of morality. Cute.


Nice way to dodge and avoid the question/issue. I asked, what qualifies you to judge another persons heart? Are you God? Are you so sinless that you can judge another persons alleged sins? Explain to us why you have such a clear vision on these issues, that you know exactly the truth of someoens inner belief and feelings? If you don't answer we will understand it is because in your own mind you beleive that the proof of your divinity is "obvious". LOL.

Frankly your assertions are ridiculous and part of the most outrageous political smear campaign I've ever seen in Hawaii.

BKHale2007
October 31st, 2004, 07:12 PM
The Hawaii Island Journal has an article in its Nov. 1-15 issue on Case and Gabbard. I'll try to post an excerpt soon.

Vanguard
November 1st, 2004, 01:34 AM
Nice way to dodge and avoid the question/issue. I asked, what qualifies you to judge another persons heart? Are you God? Are you so sinless that you can judge another persons alleged sins? Explain to us why you have such a clear vision on these issues, that you know exactly the truth of someoens inner belief and feelings? If you don't answer we will understand it is because in your own mind you beleive that the proof of your divinity is "obvious". LOL.

That's a question you should ask yourself, hanai. (http://www.uselessmoviequotes.com/files/oneshall.wav)


Frankly your assertions are ridiculous and part of the most outrageous political smear campaign I've ever seen in Hawaii.

Wow ... does this mean I'm the liberal side winnar of this thread?

hanai
November 1st, 2004, 02:58 AM
That's a question you should ask yourself, hanai. (http://www.uselessmoviequotes.com/files/oneshall.wav)
Wow ... does this mean I'm the liberal side winnar of this thread?

Yep no answer, as expected. Funny how your all talk when the topic is nitpicking someone else, but when it comes to yourself you've got no defence. No try act Brah, obviously you one Case campaigner on a mission to try smear Mike Gabbard. FYI: mission failed.

BKHale2007
November 1st, 2004, 05:45 AM
The HIJ article is not yet online, so I'll post an excerpt.

PAC-Men and Krishna Conservatives: A Look Inside the Financing of Hawaii's 2nd District Congressional Race

by Alan D. McNarie

One candidate depicts himself as a Catholic conservative crusader for the family. The other calls himself a "moderate in philosophy" and takes a progressive stance on such issues as campaign finance reform....But there's another way to see a candidate: to look at the money flowing into the campaign.
...But Gabbard's donors, however generous, have proven no match for an incumbent's cash magnetism.

In the latest available FEC reports, Congressman Ed Case had raised $679,766, including $123,780 from PACs and other committees. Where Gabbard has only three corporate PAC donors, Case has dozens.

---
The article, as evidenced by the title, is somewhat biased against Gabbard, but reveals a lot about Case's fundraising. In yesterday's Tribune-Herald, both candidates' positions on the Jones Act were mentioned. Case is for "reforming" it, Gabbard believes it should remain as is.

alohaj316
November 1st, 2004, 03:54 PM
Gabbard challenges Case to pull false ad
November 1, 2004
A radio ad being aired by Ed Case claiming that Mike Gabbard has refused to do interviews with the media “is unfair, untrue and totally unsupported by the facts.”

Gabbard said, “Case has been lying about me and my family for ten months. His stating in radio advertising that I have not been willing to do live interviews with the media is but the latest in a long series of statements that Case knows are false.”

Gabbard said that he has done live interviews at least once and, in some cases, several times, with the following news organizations:

KHON TV
KITV
PBS
KHVH Radio
KPUA Radio
West Hawaii Today
HawaiiTribune Herald
Honolulu Advertiser
Garden Island News
KTOH FM
KZOO RADIO
Hawaii Island Journal
KPMW RADIO
Kauai Radio FM 97
Washington Times
In addition, Gabbard says he has debated Case in four public forums statewide, most recently in an Office of Hawaiian Affairs forum produced and aired on KHON TV. Click here for a listing and schedule of all the debates.

Gabbard challenged Case to stop airing the radio ad with the false claim about his interviews with the media and to “apologize for once again lying to the people of Hawaii.”

Gabbard said, “This ad is but the latest of lies put forth by Case in one of the most negative campaigns of character assassination in the history of Hawaii politics. The campaign Case has orchestrated for the past ten months is unbefitting a representative of the aloha state.”

pzarquon
November 2nd, 2004, 06:22 PM
Early results (absentee and early voting) fresh out of the State Capitol shows Case 69 percent leading Gabbard's 31 percent. Of course, that's technically zero out of 297 precincts reporting. We'll see how returns for today look in a few hours.

Vanguard
November 3rd, 2004, 01:06 AM
Yep no answer, as expected. Funny how your all talk when the topic is nitpicking someone else, but when it comes to yourself you've got no defence. No try act Brah, obviously you one Case campaigner on a mission to try smear Mike Gabbard. FYI: mission failed.

No need to devote even one iota to defend myself. You accuse me of "judging" (and we really should judge the character of our candidates, rather than putting them atop pedestals as theologians/spiritual leaders beyond moral reproach. If I wanted that, I could just move to the Islamic Republic of Iran and use that very same cookie cutter "don't judge people" copout on Ayatollah Khamenei) while you've been doing almost nothing but judging (from candidates, to married couples who don't/can't have children) during your tenure in this thread. Pot kettle black. I don't know what kind of answer from me you were looking for, but like I said, no need.

Anyway, this discussion is moot now. The people have spoken. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/HI/H/02/index.html) Obviously, MG couldn't get nearly enough people to trust him, despite how fashionable it is nowadays to take the Pat Robertson "fire and brimstone" persona. Looks as if CG shouldn't have quit her day job at the BOE, in this layperson's opinion.

Glen Miyashiro
November 3rd, 2004, 12:43 PM
Anyway, this discussion is moot now. The people have spoken. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/HI/H/02/index.html) Obviously, MG couldn't get nearly enough people to trust him, despite how fashionable it is nowadays to take the Pat Robertson "fire and brimstone" persona. Looks as if CG shouldn't have quit her day job at the BOE, in this layperson's opinion.
Well, not until 2006. Dan Akaka will be up for re-election then, and I wouldn't be surprised if Gabbard tried to win his Senate seat. Although it would be hard to figure out how to run against Dan Akaka; is there anyone in Hawai'i who doesn't like the man?