The Iraq War - Chapter 2

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

The Pentagon has decided that the life of one of our troops who is killed in Iraq or Aghanistan is worth a one-time payment of $100,000 in 2006, up from the current $12,240 tax free "death gratuity".

I'm sure that'll make the families of the 1,400+ troops already killed feel like their loved ones' lives were worth a whole lot less at the time of their deaths than they will be to any troops killed in 2006, after which time, we hope all our troops will be out of harm's way in Iraq anyway.

Geeze. Talk about not caring about human life...

Miulang

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...death_benefits

[1stwahine]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

The Pentagon has decided that the life of one of our troops who is killed in Iraq or Aghanistan is worth a one-time payment of $100,000 in 2006, up from the current $12,240 tax free "death gratuity".

Hmmm...My son's Life Insurance Company sent me a notice of Cancellation last month, (ok three) for non-payment. That insurance was for $275,000, me being the beneficiary, that my son had taken out. They contacted me several times by phone to inform my son in Afganistan. Hell, if I did! I may not be rich financially and I just get on by. Still money is not important to me, my son and daughters are! As far as the $12,240 the Govt. dishes out for dead soldiers...they can shove it up their OLO'S! In 2006, my kids still will be in the Military and I will still feel the same way! Awww, shit...I'm not suppose to be on this thread!

momthreesoldiers

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

I sent the following email last night to a 13-year-old girl in Baghdad named Raghda Zaid. I wanted to tell her to stay safe, go to school and become a leader for Iraq when she grows up:

"Hello from the United States, Raghda!

I really like your kitty pictures! I have 2 kitties of my own. Bushbush looks like a kitty I used to have.

Are you staying safe? I am very sorry the Americans and their so-called friends are occupying your country. I was not one who voted for our current President and I am ashamed that not very many people in this country even think about what we are doing to families like yours many thousands of miles away from safety in the States.

Don't give up hope for peace, Raghda. You are Iraq's future. Go to school, learn as much as you can, and when things quiet down and you are a little older, maybe you can come to visit my country. We are not all as bad as it may seem. Many of our soldiers don't want to be fighting in Iraq, either, but they are honor bound, just like your freedom fighters. It's just too bad that some people think the only way to bring peace to the world is through war.

I hope you had a pretty good Eid. I know it's not like before the occupation and that you must have days when you have no lights or water. It's not fair to you because you did not ask for war.

As I said before, you and your brother(s) are the future of Iraq. Learn from what is happening to you now and vow never to let that happen again to you, your family, or your country, and maybe peace will come to the Middle East.

Salaam,
Miulang in Seattle, Washington, USA (way on the other side of the US)".

This morning, I got this response from her:

"Hi,
How are you?
Thank you, Yes i am safe, i know that not all the Americans bad and youa re a good person and agood friend, I went to school and lern every thing and i love English lesson.

Raghda"

This is what the Internet is supposed to be for. If you really care about what's going on over there, email one of the bloggers in Iraq. They are all very well educated in English and will tell you what is on their minds.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

And now, a little levity from the war zone. The newly appointed mayor of Baghdad (he replaced the one who was recently gunned down by freedom fighters), is soooo grateful to the US that he is proposing the installation of a statue of George Bush in the middle of the city!

Ali Fadel says having a statue of our President would honor him. As for his own personal safety, Fadel says his life is worth nothing compared to freedom for his country. And that's why the new mayor of Baghdad will be tooling around town in a brand new $150,000 SUV with bulletproof windows and flat-resistant tires.

http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/39526.htm

The blogger who pointed this story out to me has a suggestion for a model for that statue. You have to click on this link to see it. It's a doozy!
"George and Barney salute a free Iraq" (depicting the President's more human side)
http://benevis-dige.blogspot.com/2005/01/u.html


Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

When the South Vietnamese were allowed to vote in 1967, it is reported that 83% showed up at the polls, despite threats from terrorists. It appears that history may be repeating itself in Iraq. And if history is repeating itself, then we should not assume that Iraq will end up being a "democracy" like ours.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7943.htm

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

According to a special audit report released by the US Inspector General's office, more than $8.8 billion which was disbursed to various Iraqi ministries since 2003 is unaccounted for.

The CPA was the US-lead Coalition Provisional Authority that was put in place immediately after the occupation of Iraq.

"The audit referred to an instance in which the CPA paid salaries to 74,000 security guards, although the actual number of employees could not be validated. The report says that in one case some 8,206 guards were listed on a payroll, but only 602 real individuals could be verified. At another ministry, payrolls listed 1,471 security guards when only 642 were actually working.
This is not the first time that US financial conduct in Iraq has come under fire, specifically over funds slated for reconstruction after the US-led attack in March 2003, which then went unaccounted for. Last June, the British charity Christian Aid said that at least $20 billion in oil revenues and other Iraqi funds intended to rebuild the country had disappeared from banks administered by the CPA. ..."

This was our tax money, most of which ended up in the hands of greedy Iraqi opportunists, who quite possibly used that siphoned-off money to help the resistance fighters. How could we be so naive to believe that without accountability that the funds would be used for their original purpose?

Miulang

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GB02Ak03.html

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

I really do hope they put up a statue of George W. Bush so we can see how quickly its brought down by Iraqi soldiers, Freedom Fighters and probably US troops. This time, however it wont be staged like the fall of Sadaam's statue.

KalihiBoy

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

There was a general who was a veteran of both Afghanistan and Iraq who said in a news conference before a forum on strategies for the war on terror on Tuesday , "Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. ... It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling." ...
"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

His boss, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, said he had counseled Lt. Gen. Mattis on the appropriateness of his statements, all the while defending the general by saying, "While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," Hagee said. "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor."

I wonder if this could be considered a CLA (career-limiting action")...kinda like not knowing how to eat an artichoke at a business lunch?

Miulang

http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news...97/detail.html

[kimo55]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

There was a general ... "Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. ... It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling." ...

"Gentlemen! There's no fighting in the War Room!"

Peter Sellers/President Merkin Muffley
Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb - 1964

[mapen]

Re: Remembering Auschwitz

What?! Are you comparing our occupation of Iraq with the Nazi gassing of Jews in WWII?

Surely you're not.

Remember that Saddam gassed a whole town of Kurdish families to death not too long ago. That crime alone gave any power the moral authority to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam.

Saddam gassing Kurdish families is more reminiscent of the Nazis gassing Jews, and you're trying to call the USA the bad guys???

[Miulang]

Re: Remembering Auschwitz

What?! Are you comparing our occupation of Iraq with the Nazi gassing of Jews in WWII?

Surely you're not.

Remember that Saddam gassed a whole town of Kurdish families to death not too long ago. That crime alone gave any power the moral authority to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam.

Saddam gassing Kurdish families is more reminiscent of the Nazis gassing Jews, and you're trying to call the USA the bad guys???

Hi Mapen! I don't know if you knew this, but there is documentation that we have been using a next-generation napalm in Iraq, even though officials deny it.

The problem with the insurgency in Iraq is you can't tell the freedom fighters apart from the innocent civilians. The "enemy" could be anyone. There have been enough documented incidents of civilians being killed or tortured by the coalition forces (I think the operative word in some parts of Iraq has been "Shoot, then ask questions") that yes, I would say we are as bad as the Nazis were, but on a smaller scale. We're not responsible for the deaths of millions like the Nazis were, but there have been more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis killed (mostly women and children) by us since March 2003.

Miulang

[mapen]

Re: Remembering Auschwitz

The problem with the insurgency in Iraq is you can't tell the freedom fighters apart from the innocent civilians.

To an extent, you can. Unfortunately, our soldiers are basically standing around waiting to get shot at or blown up. When an attack occurs, our soldiers are shooting back at the men with guns who are shooting at them.

And when our military orders bomb strikes, they try to only hit known and confirmed enemy sites. They strive for 100% accuracy but in the fog of war that isn't always possible.

I would say we are as bad as the Nazis were, but on a smaller scale.

That's nuts. Nazis tortured and killed completely innocent men, women, and children for purely racist reasons. Americans interrogate only those they suspect of killing or conspiring to kill Americans, and don't do anything nearly as heinous as the Nazis did. You're making a really emotionally wild and illogical comparison.

have been more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis killed (mostly women and children) by us since March 2003.

I don't doubt that innocent Iraqis have been accidentally killed by our military. But 100,000+ sounds like a totally exaggerated, inflated, unverified "fact" to me. Where'd you get that from? Did you get that number from a source that is biased or did that actually come from a respected journalistic source that fact checks and confirms all their information?

(sorry for the extra edit)

[Miulang]

Re: Remembering Auschwitz

Mapen:
I will gladly provide my sources as long as you don't immediately discount them because they don't come from the US government, which tends to undercount everything. And there will never be an accurate count of civilian deaths because no one was put in charge of keeping track of that number.

Estimated number of civilians killed in Iraq:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm
From the BBC News, quoting an article in The Lancet, a highly respected international medical journal

As for your assertion that the only time the coalition is shooting at people is when they are fired on first, how do we explain the civilian deaths reported at checkpoints where through a language misunderstanding, innocent unarmed civilians were gunned down "just in case they might be terrorists"? This is the same kind of crap that happened in Vietnam. My then boyfriend who spent a year in 'Nam said you shot at anybody and everything because you didn't know if you were going to get sapped. It's even more deadly now because the jihadist suicide bomber could walk up to a soldier, look friendly enough, and then take out both himself and the soldier(s). Death means honor to jihadists, and the innocent people are sacrificed because we are practicing pre-emptive maneuvers to neutralize what might be dangerous.

And you're wrong about the prison situation, too. How do you explain what happened at Abu Ghraib, Camp Bucca, Gitmo? Besides the torture and humiliation the prisoners endured (which is illegal under the terms of the Geneva Convention, but we weaseled out of it by saying that terrorists could claim no country and therefore weren't eligible for Geneva Convention protection), they are still not being given the right to trial or access to an attorney. And it's not just the Americans that are guilty of this. Now the Brits have their own "Abu Ghraib" scandal going on, too. And for those prisoners who died while in captivity? Oops. Our new Attorney General was one of the chief architects (along with Rummy) of the decision to do whatever it took to try to get "meaningful" information out of suspected terrorists. Whatever it took ranged from being piled up in a pyramid naked, being led around naked on a leash by a female soldier; being approached by a scantily clad female guard with red paint on her underwear to simulate menstruation (in the Muslim faith, a woman is unclean while she is having her period). Do you realize that mental torture is as bad as physical torture, and in many cases, it is worse because bones heal, but once a mind is fractured, the person may forever be impaired?

If you would like to continue this discussion, I suggest you meet me in the Iraq War 2 thread. There you can read all the citations from the international press I have uncovered about what we're doing (and not doing) in Iraq.

I like and respect the Jewish people, but have no respect for Zionists. In fact, most of the Jews in Israel don't like the Zionists either. They just want to live in peace with the Palestineans.

Miulang

P.S. Is killing innocent people (doesn't really matter where) for OIL (or some other natural resource) any better than killing them because of their race or their religion? And what if, when the dust settles and the votes are counted, it turns out that al-Sistani's party wins and they say "no thank you" to our form of "democracy"? We let the people vote, and they said they didn't want us. Are we then going to cry "foul" because the Sunnis boycotted the election? We really can't because the Bush Administration has already crowed about how the turnout was so great (now they're thinking it will be around 42% but they don't know how many people could have registered to vote) and democracy has won over repression. Unfortunately, democracy is not freedom, and liberty does not mean independence all the time.

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

This is a travesty and a shame that I hoped would not be repeated after what the returning Vietnam vets encountered:

Herold Noel served his time in the military, including the first five months of the Iraq war in 2003 as a fuel handler for the military. He returned from Iraq in August of that year to Brooklyn, N.Y., hoping for a welcome and a helping hand from the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), something he had been told to expect. That was not to be.

"The government says one thing, but does another," says Noel. "I came back to New York thinking there would be support; that I would have a job, but I was sadly mistaken." After eight months of cold sleepless nights in his car, the 25-year-old veteran finally has a place he can call home. If it weren't for an anonymous donor who paid for a year's rent, Noel would still be on the streets of Brooklyn, unable to see his wife and four kids.

[mapen]

Re: Remembering Auschwitz

Mapen:
And there will never be an accurate count of civilian deaths because no one was put in charge of keeping track of that number.

You say this, but you are so quick to support a number like 100,000+, and so quick to criticize a USA source.

As for your assertion that the only time the coalition is shooting at people is when they are fired on first, how do we explain the civilian deaths reported at checkpoints where through a language misunderstanding, innocent unarmed civilians were gunned down "just in case they might be terrorists"?

I was saying that our soldiers wait to get provoked into a shooting fight before shooting first.

I agree its tragic when innocent civilians are killed. My heart really does go out to that family that was shot up at the checkpoint. But our soldiers did not know they were unarmed. In the heat of the moment, they could not tell them apart from suicide bombers, and were provoked into defending themselves. That they were unarmed was only kown after the fact. Our soldiers mistakenly shot them in self defense.

And you're wrong about the prison situation, too. How do you explain what happened at Abu Ghraib, Camp Bucca, Gitmo?

Abu Ghraib is no Auschwitz.

P.S. Is killing innocent people (doesn't really matter where) for OIL (or some other natural resource) any better than killing them because of their race or their religion?

We went there to overthrow Saddam and install a democracy because of his known crimes (gassing Kurds and other genocidal crimes, invading, pillaging, and raping Kuwait, promoting terrorism, opressing his people, contributing to the overall instability of the region, etc). That they were an oil rich country is an important but ancillary matter.

They did not die for Oil. They died for Saddam's overthrow.

when the dust settles and the votes are counted, it turns out that al-Sistani's party wins and they say "no thank you" to our form of "democracy"?

So be it.