this forum name is abhorrent

[scrivener]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

I don't know if you know this, but the monarchy, pre-overthrow, was a constitutional monarchy and may even have been elected (I didn't pay enough attention in seventh grade history, I know).

As for the name of this forum, I'd ask that you reconsider. We all love our country (just read some of the posts and you'll see that even in passionate disagreement, we are almost unanimously in favor of making this place a better place to live), but there is a certain insanity about what goes on here. I mean, we know who Paris Hilton is dating, but we don't know who we voted for in the school board elections. That's crazy, I tellya, and you know what's crazier? We don't really do much to change any of that.

Despite all our folly (and it is considerable), the country still, by and large, works. That's both awe-inspiring and crazy. I'll bet if you and I continue to discuss this, we will find a million things to disagree about, but I'll bet we could still find enough common ground to shake hands and roll our sleeves up and make changes, because that's the other crazy thing about this nation -- we, you and me and Pzarquon and all the other bananas who frequent this place -- actually have the power to do something, or even crazier, to simply complain and not do a dang thing.

Crazy. The only un-crazy governments are the ones that take the citizenry's power away from it (because the citizenry is nuts!), and those are governments I want no part of.

Welcome to HT!

[kimo55]

Re: Today in History...

ps could we find a name other than american asylum for the america thread? it can be construed in an insulting manner.....

here's a clue, chucko. no one was insulted
until now.
k den.

[stumphurple]

Re: Today in History...

You're new. You're suggesting a name change for this subject. You're new. Why would you do that? You're new. If you don't like this tree house go find another one. You're new. Better yet, you can create your own. That's the beauty of the Internet. Not only can you log on, create a profile and send 13 messages on your first day because you're new, you can ask admin to change the names. That's so beautiful. You're new! Refreshing? You're new! You know a lot and yet...

i like hawaii. it is where i am from and will always be part of me. but i also think theres a dangerous tendancy for hawaii people to not appreciate america. i think its a matter of respect for our country. new or not is irrelevant. i was raised to show respect. its not very difficult to make a small adjustment to avoid fifth columnists from taking snide potshots at america. i know it probably wasnt intentional. but as local people we always want to denigrate the mainlanders without understanding how many mainlanders died so we could enjoy the quality of life we have today.

thats a serious problem. and whats worse is that i see it in a people i love so much. my people. so i want to participate in this forum but i also want to point out the dangers of this course. why should we allow this kind of behavior?

[stumphurple]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

i know about the monarchy. it underwent a series of constitution changes mostly because the kings insisted on harnessing political office for personal benefit. like the enormous debts kalakaua had. or kam iv killing his own baby. then the queen did the intolerable. she tried to replace the constitution with her own personal dictatorship. after that there was a rebellion. subsequently america annexed us. luckily in time because after that the japanese attacked. this is all history but no i am not just some ignorant outsider spouting. i know what im talking about.

now to the main point. you make a good argument. the idea of freedom does indeed sound like madness especially in a world that has been dominated for so many years by the spectre of darkness and tyranny. if america is a madhouse in a mad world perhaps that is not so bad after all. that really is a beautiful inner meaning to find.

thanks for your welcome. i hope to get to know everyone here better through the posts. take care and God bless.

[scrivener]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

also why are we perpetuating alien political systems with words like alii? the monarchy was abolished for freedom.

Hmmm...I may not have paid much attention in seventh-grade history, but I paid enough to know that the overthrow was not executed for "our" freedom. It was instigated by European and American businessmen who wanted to control the markets.

Now, whether that was for better or for worse, in the short or long term, I suppose can be debated, but the long term and "our freedom" were simply not what these businessmen were thinking about, no matter how (I think) you look at it. It was simply a business decision for pretty selfish reasons, and the United States of America has already admitted that it was illegal.

Sorry if this has gone off-topic.

[stumphurple]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

no no thats the version we get now from marxists who insist on tying everything in the world to a conspiracy of evil capitalists. if you actually examine the historical record of what men like lorrin thurston and sanford dole wanted, it was to preserve their rights as hawaiian citizens. both thurston and dole were hawaiian kingdom subjects. the queen was trying to force her rule [she was getting ready to abrogate the constitution] on them. they had to take action.

of course in the long term as well hawaii has benefited. but the sovereignty revisionists dont deal with these hard facts: the queen they talk about so much as a symbol of resistance freedom and pedantic legalisms was trying to establish a dictatorship. if it was a genuinely foreign takeover like they always say why didnt the brits intervene like they did before? because it wasnt. it was a revolution by citizens of the country against a despotic ruler. it was a fight for freedom in the noblest tradition. im appalled at the brainwashing we all got back in school.

[tutusue]

Re: Today in History...

[...] i was raised to show respect. [...]

Then show respect for the way your parents raised you by showing respect for the new "cyber home" you just entered...with the force of hurricane Katrina. Tacky.

[stumphurple]

Re: Today in History...

force of a hurricane? i tink not.

anyway who say one quiet mouse entrance necessary ah? not when theres monarchist propaganda being bandied about. dont edit out the rest of my message. i was referring to the anti american undertone these kind of posts can take. that sort of insidious [yes i will say it] sedition is not only treasonous it is also cowardly and disrespectful to those who have died for our freedom. i dont think anyone of us is obliged to respect enemy propaganda. thats my view. you may disagree.

[kimo55]

Re: Today in History...

dont edit out the rest of my message.

who da hell are ya, ya troll? don't tell sue what ta do. she can do whatever her lil heart desires around here, ya newbie creep.

[tutusue]

Re: Today in History...

force of a hurricane? i tink not.

anyway who say one quiet mouse entrance necessary ah? not when theres monarchist propaganda being bandied about. dont edit out the rest of my message. i was referring to the anti american undertone these kind of posts can take. that sort of insidious [yes i will say it] sedition is not only treasonous it is also cowardly and disrespectful to those who have died for our freedom. i dont think anyone of us is obliged to respect enemy propaganda. thats my view. you may disagree.

Yes...force of a hurricane.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your 'view'. You have a right to your opinion. IOW...I'm not questioning the content. It's the presentation that sucks. I quoted only that part of your message I was replying to. Ya know, the part about you were "raised to show respect"? You entered this 'cyber home' in a demanding, disrespectful, arrogant, holier than thou manner...absolutely NO aloha. Not even an introduction. Makes no difference what your views are when you try to jam them down people's throats. That kind of attitude stinks. And I will continue to quote only those parts of messages I'm replying to...regardless of who I'm replying to. Yes, that includes you, too. That's called 'netiquette. Ever heard of it?

I didn't think so.

[tutusue]

Re: Today in History...

who da hell are ya, ya troll? don't tell sue what ta do. she can do whatever her lil heart desires around here, ya newbie creep.

Ya know what, Kimo? The simplest thing for anyone on HT who is offended by "Hurricane Stumphurple" is to relegate him/her to the ignore list. Fast, easy, painless. Think I'll hele on over to CP right now. Cool...my first "ignore"! Analogous to usenet's killfiles, I guess. I'll give it a try. If everyone did...problem solved!

Jeez...one week it's Auntie Lynn's feel-good, Christmas wish granted for the keiki of MWH. Then the next week it's Hurricane Stumphurple swirling around outta control like a big, ol' dust bunny gone awry...too big to sweep under the carpet. The ignore list rocks, even tho' I've never tried it. There's a first time for everything! Seems silly to keep giving someone the attention they so desperatly crave. I'm certainly guilty of that so...no more!

[zztype]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

Lili'uokalani was going to change the "Bayonet Constitution" that had been forced on Kalakaua by those same sugar planters and businessment aforementioned. She was intending to take back some of the power usurped by those businessmen previously. Check your facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet_Constitution

The 1887 Constitution of the Kingdom of Hawaii, commonly known as the Bayonet Constitution by its opponents, was a 1887 Reform Constitution written by Lorrin A. Thurston and imposed on the Kingdom of Hawai'i and its monarch David Kal?kaua by a group of American and European businessmen and an armed militia, associated with a secret society called the Hawaiian League in favor of annexation to the United States.

[admin]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

I've merged stumphurple's various postings on the "dangerous tendancy for hawaii people to not appreciate america" and how "monarchy is the antithesis of freedom" from various unrelated topics into this one thread.

For those willing to engage stumphurple on these topics, this is the place to do it. Stumphurple, please don't derail other threads. And remember that you are a guest in this place. If you truly "hope to get to know everyone here better through the posts," I'd suggest you stop looking for anti-Americanism or other failings of Hawaii or Hawaiians in every corner and participate in a real conversation.

[1stwahine]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

Who has awaken the Beast? Do not mess with Auntie Pupule's Ohana!!! I give you fair WARNING!!!!!

I WILL BE WATCHING AND READING...the powers of the unknown will be unleashed!

Auntie Pupule

[tutusue]

Re: this forum name is abhorrent

Who has awaken the Beast? Do not mess with Auntie Pupule's Ohana!!! I give you fair WARNING!!!!!

I WILL BE WATCHING AND READING...the powers of the unknown will be unleashed!

Auntie Pupule

Let the Karma begin! Way to go, Auntie!