The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

That's a rather lame comparison - you can do better ! But let's expand on it for a moment. If you are walking in a bad neighborhood with a reputation for muggings, then you are at least partly responsible for making an unwise choice. It's personal safety 101 to be aware of your surroundings so that you don't become a victim.

And if I am wheelchair-bound, on a limited disability income, so all I can afford is "a bad neighborhood," what then? All the "awareness" in the world won't protect me, or get me out of that environment.

My point in my initial comparison (sorry it didn't match your standards, but that's not what keeps me awake at night) is that the majority of the citizens of whom we are speaking may be fully aware of the danger of their situation (being used as cover), but have no means to improve their condition, or to get away from where they are; don't presume they can just pack a bag and hop the next bus out of town.

[glossyp]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

And if I am wheelchair-bound, on a limited disability income, so all I can afford is "a bad neighborhood," what then? All the "awareness" in the world won't protect me, or get me out of that environment.

I apologize if I sound flippant about what is truly a serious situation. There are no perfect solutions for being trapped in a war zone but it is vastly different from living in a bad neighborhood. Able-bodied folks have been known to scrounge what they can from their meager existence and hoof it cross country to escape near-certain death. The numbers of refugees fleeing are testament to the will to survive - people willing to leave what is known and familiar for the chance to live. People die in wars and sometimes it is because they are unable to escape - those who can often will. The able-bodied who willingly stay take their chances.

[Miulang]

Lebanon may sue Israel for damages to country

I don't know how Lebanese Prime Minister Siniora plans to do it, but he is now thinking about suing Israel for damages done to the infrastructure and civilians in his country. I also don't know where he intends to pursue his law suit but if he follows through on his threat, he won't be suing for peanuts.

On another front, that "slam dunk" the IDF thought it would have when it tried to occupy Bint Jbiel, which had been identified as a Hezbollah enclave, resulted in 8 Israeli soldiers being killed and 22 injured today in an ambush outside town. Hundreds of townspeople were forced to flee the town in the middle of the fierce groundfighting. IDF forces had started their occupation of Bint Jbiel on Tuesday, claiming that the town was secure at that time, but when the troops started exploring the numerous underground tunnels under the town, they were apparently ambushed by Hezbollah insurgents who were hiding in the tunnels.

If the IDF values the lives of its troops, they really should not engage in a ground war in Lebanon with Hezbollah because they will never win. Israel can only use airstrikes right now and be somewhat effective, which of course will kill even more innocent Lebanese and create worse PR for them around the world. Nasrallah claims that he could unleash missiles that will reach Tel Aviv; does Olmert really want to risk that? The feeling among some Arabs is Hezbollah doesn't have to win this battle, it only needs to show that Israel is having a difficult time defeating it to remain heroes in the eyes of the displaced South Lebanese who live among Hezbollah.

Miulang

P.S. This is how the Washington Post describes the fighting in Bint Jbeil: "...so far, say soldiers, commanders and military analysts, Hezbollah has proved a more formidable force by orders of magnitude than the armed Palestinian groups in the territories...."

[Miulang]

More reports on the UNIFIL observer killings

This, from the Independent (UK) indicates that UN officials had been in contact with IDF forces and told them that Hezbollah was within 500 meters of their enclave and requested that Israel not try aiming missiles at the site at least 10 times before the launch.

"...The UN warned Israel with at least 10 separate telephone calls during six hours that repeated aerial and artillery attacks had already landed at or dangerously close to their post in Khiam, south Lebanon, before the bombing that killed four of its observers there on Tuesday.

While expressing their "sorrow" Ehud Olmert, Israel's Prime Minister, and Tzipi Livni, the Foreign Minister, sharply criticised Kofi Annan, the UN secretary general, for suggesting the attack on the Khiam post was "apparently deliberate."

But an internal report on the incident says there were more than 20 aerial and artillery attacks on the post on Tuesday, including four artillery rounds that directly hit the UN position an hour before the fatal guided bomb attack that killed the unarmed personnel taking refuge in a bomb shelter. The report says that, each time, the Israeli officer promised that the attacks would stop.

When they failed to do so, the UN Deputy Secretary General Mark Malloch Brown, contacted in New York, also telephoned the Israeli officers to urge a halt to the attacks. Lt-Col John Molloy, the Irish chief liaison officer between UN forces in south Lebanon and the Israelis, warned Israel six times that air strikes threatened the lives of the UN observers before the direct hit.

Ireland's Foreign Ministry said yesterday: "He warned: 'You have to address this problem or lives may be lost'." Dermot Ahern, Ireland's Foreign Minister, summoned Israel's ambassador to his office in protest and declared "Evidence we have would suggest this was either an incredible accident or else was in some way directly targeted."

Meanwhile, Robert Fisk, The Independent's Middle Eastern correspondent filed the following report about the battle at Khiam, Bint Jbiel and other towns in the area:

"...To my left smoke rises too, over the town of Khiam, where a smashed United Nations outpost remains the only memorial to the four UN soldiers - most of them decapitated by an American-made missile on Tuesday - killed by the Israeli air force.

Indian soldiers of the UN army in southern Lebanon, visibly moved by the horror of bringing their Canadian, Fijian, Chinese and Austrian comrades back in at least 20 pieces from the clearly marked UN post next to Khiam prison, left their remains at Marjayoun hospital yesterday.

In past years, I have spent hours with their comrades in this UN position, which is clearly marked in white and blue paint, with the UN's pale blue flag opposite the Israeli frontier. Their duty was to report on all they saw: the ruthless Hizbollah missile fire out of Khiam and the brutal Israeli response against the civilians of Lebanon.

Is this why they had to die, after being targeted by the Israelis for eight hours, their officers pleading to the Israeli Defence Forces that they cease fire? An American-made Israeli helicopter saw to that.

In Bint Jbeil, meanwhile, another bloodbath was taking place. Claiming to "control" this southern Lebanese town, the Israelis chose to walk into a Hizbollah trap. The moment they reached the deserted marketplace, they were ambushed from three sides, their soldiers falling to the ground under sustained rifle fire. The remaining Israeli troops - surrounded by the "terrorists" they were supposed to liquidate - desperately appealed for help, but an Israeli Merkava tank and other vehicles sent to help them were also attacked and set on fire. Up to 17 Israeli soldiers may have died so far in this disastrous operation. During their occupation of Lebanon in 1983 more than 50 Israeli soldiers were killed in just one suicide attack.

The battle for southern Lebanon is on an epic scale but, from the heights above Khiam, the Israelis appear to be in deep trouble. Their F-16s turn in the high bright sun - small, silver fish whose whispers gain in volume as they dive - and their bombs burst over the old prison, where the Hizbollah are still holding out; beyond the frontier, I can see livid fires burning across the Israeli hillsides and the Jewish settlement of Metullah billowing smoke.

"...According to US correspondents accompanying Ms Rice on her visit to the Middle East, she is proposing the intervention of a Nato-led force along the Lebanese-Israeli border for between 60 and 90 days to assure that a ceasefire exists, the deployment of an enlarged Nato force throughout Lebanon to disarm Hizbollah and then the retraining of the Lebanese army before its own deployment to the border.

This plan - which, like all American proposals on Lebanon, is exactly the same as Israel's demands - carries the same depth of conceit as that of the Israeli consul general in New York, who said last week that "most Lebanese appreciate what we are doing".

Does Ms Rice think the Hizbollah want to be disarmed? By Nato? Wasn't there a Nato force in Beirut which fled Lebanon after a group close to the Hizbollah bombed the US Marine base at Beirut airport in 1983, killing 241 US servicemen and dozens more French troops a few seconds later? Does anyone believe that Shia Muslim forces will not do the same again to any Nato "intervention" force? The Americans are talking about Egyptian and Turkish troops in southern Lebanon; Sunni Muslims ruling Shia territory.

The Hizbollah has been waiting and training and dreaming of this new war for years, however ruthless we may regard the actions. They are not going to surrender the territory they liberated from the Israeli army in an 18-year guerrilla war, least of all to Nato at Israel's bidding.

Yesterday's assault on the Israeli army in Bint Jbeil proved that. The problem is that the US sees this slaughterhouse as an "opportunity" rather than a tragedy, a chance to humble Hizbollah supporters in Tehran and help to shape the "new Middle East" of which Ms Rice spoke so blithely this week.

It is Israel which is running out of time in southern Lebanon. Its attacks have for the fifth time in 30 years placed it in the dock for war crimes in Lebanon. The toll of Lebanon's civilian casualties has reached 400. And still the US will not intervene to prevent the carnage, even to call for a 24-hour ceasefire to allow the 3,000 civilians still trapped between Qlaya and Bint Jbeil - who include a number of foreign nationals - to flee...."

Miulang

[waioli kai]

UN links, re: Lebanon, ... and Gaza?

United Nations
July 26th, 2006
Middle East Information

Posted at 1:29:41 PM in In the News | | Permanent Link: Middle East Information
Secretary-General Kofi Annan today proposed a three-part strategy today aimed at ending the Middle East crisis in Lebanon and Israel involving an immediate cessation of hostilities and wide-ranging political and economic commitments (full statement). A News Focus Web site has been created compiling related statements, documents, resolutions, links to UN system Web sites and more.

.....

Israel used disproportionate force in Gaza, says UN humanitarian chief - 25 July

..... ... ...

SS Rice is saying no cease-fire unless Hizbollah disarms.

Israel get out of Lebanon, stop their rockets, mortars, bombs, special forces penetrations, overflights, assassinations and Hizbollah would stop firing into Zionaziland. Israel is trying to make two wrongs (their ongoing war crimes on Lebanon and their ongoing war crimes on Gaza) into a right as if two negatives multiplied together makes a postive.

Who is going to pay for all the Israeli destruction using U.S. weapons? All the US military-protected Mideast oil kingdoms should cash out their stakes in the U.S. Treasury to pay for it! It's been the kingdoms' monies the US Defense Department has been using to militarize Zionizts in Palestine.

[Miulang]

A glimmer of hope?

The IDF and the Israeli government are apparently finally conceding publicly that their overheated rhetoric of 2 weeks ago about totally eliminating Hezbollah cannot be accomplished.

"...With the fighting in its third week, however, Israelis are being told that Hezbollah can be weakened but not eradicated, that Israeli forces will not be able to police the border zone themselves, and that Hezbollah's rockets continue to pose a threat to Israeli towns.

"The target is not to totally dismantle Hezbollah," said Public Security Minister Avi Dichter, a former head of Shin Bet, Israel's domestic security service. "What we are doing now is to try to send a message to Hezbollah."

Yaron Ezrahi, a political analyst at Hebrew University, said that "the rhetoric from the political establishment was extremely overheated in the early days" of the confrontation.

"Now they are trying to calibrate people's expectations, bring them more in line with what might actually be achieved," he said.

The difficulty of the fight Israel faces was obvious on Wednesday, when nine of its soldiers were killed in southern Lebanon.

Days into the campaign, there was already widespread acknowledgment among Israeli policymakers and commanders that Israel could not achieve its goals by air power alone.

On the ground, in their first major forays into the border zone, Israeli troops this week encountered tougher-than-expected resistance — and suffered heavy casualties...."

The Knesset has to exert more power over the military, who were the ones who were advocating for the increased assault on Lebanon. If they had just "followed the script" that has been played out numerous times before, prisoner exchanges with Hamas and Hezbollah, hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians would not now be displaced from their homes, critical infrastructure would not have been destroyed, which will now cost billions to restore, and hundreds of Lebanese, Palestinians and Israelis would not now be dead. Now Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz is gonna start looking like a fool because on the military scorecard, he's batting a perfect zero for his original strategy. The Knesset today said they would not be trying to expand the buffer zone by occupying additional land in Lebanon, even as they are calling up another 30,000 reservists to active duty. (an interesting aside: on CNN last night, they interviewed the family of a young American Jew who is now fighting with the IDF. CNN tried to find out how many other Jewish Americans were also in the IDF but IDF wouldn't release those details. CNN did find out that there were at least a few other Americans in the IDF).

Here is an interesting Q&A session with Uri Avnery, a former Knesset member and now journalist and Israeli peace activist. What's clear is that the political situation in that area of the world is horribly muddy. While the US supports the current Iraqi government, which is Shia-dominated, that government supports Hezbollah, which is also Shia-based. Shias represent 40% of the Lebanese population. But even Avnery, a Israeli, concedes that Hezbollah, whether they ultimately come away with anything or not, still look like heroes to the Arabs for standing up to the way more powerful IDF for as long as they have.

Right now, there is still major Shia-Sunni tension (notably in Iraq with the sectarian violence). But the longer Israel continues to hold Lebanon and Gaza hostage, the more likely the Shia and Sunni (who would represent the majority of Arabs in the Middle East) could set aside their differences and fight as one unified group, which is what Bin Ladin's #2 guy al Zawahiri apparently said today in a videotaped message. THAT would produce some really bad juju for the US and Israel in particular.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: Please Pray for Big Island Resident Sarah Ahmadia

Maybe the wrong thread. My apologies. It's just that World War III thing that makes me forget about blog etiqette.

My response was entirely in response to the Lebanese Hilo Girls suggestion that there was no right or wrong and essentially no difference between Terrorists and Israel. I could not respond to that statement on a different thread that easily.

People who are more concerned with thread etiqette than WWIII I believe are missing the profundity of her assessment. The ability to equate terrorists with civilized democracies is what is driving us toward a true clash of civilizations. It is the standard in the Muslim world.

If even American supporters of Muslims and Arabs cannot categorically condemn terrorism, I'm afraid things are going to get much much worse before the get better.

Lebanise Hilo Girl's response to the current conflict is a perfect example.

OK Pau

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Please Pray for Big Island Resident Sarah Ahmadia

Lebanise Hilo Girl's response to the current conflict is a perfect example.

I think this is a better summation of her comments:

I don't support either side, Israel or Hezbollah, in this situation. Both sides are killing innocent people.

Sarah then wrote of the situation she saw in Lebanon, becase that's where she was - it would be presumptuous of her to tell us what's happening in Israel, as she wasn't there.

But just as I did, kamuelakea, you will also choose to interpret her one posting (or selected parts thereof) through your personal lens. You have every right to do so.

[Miulang]

America v. the United Nations

It's been pretty apparent all along that the current White House Administration has no love for the United Nations. This was again brought home yesterday as the UN Security Council tried to draft a document condemning Israel for the killing of 4 unarmed UNIFIL observers in Khamia, Lebanon.

"...The UN Security Council will seek again to find an acceptable way of condemning the killing of four UN observers in Lebanon, after the United States rejected any criticism of the Israeli attack.

After intense haggling among the 15-nation council, ambassadors failed to agree a presidential statement on Wednesday after becoming deadlocked on how to describe the attack, French ambassador Jean-Marc de La Sabliere, council president for July, told reporters...

"...China, home of one of the dead soldiers of the UN mission in Lebanon (UNIFIL), had originally demanded a condemnation of the attack. But the United States would not accept any criticism of its ally, Israel, diplomats said.

China's envoy Wang Guangya said: "China, definitely we condemn this, and definitely I think most of the members will condemn what happened.

"We need to not only condemn what happened, but we need to adopt a forward-looking approach to make sure that no future events like this happen."...

"...Questioned about the impact of the disagreement, the Chinese envoy warned that the failure to agree a text could affect efforts to agree other key issues before the UN Security Council, particularly on Iran's nuclear programme.

"I hope not, but I think that somehow it will have an impact, because if we want the unity of the council on this issue we also want the unity of the council on other issues," he said.

Questioned specifically about the Iran dispute, where China and Russia have resisted US calls for sanctions, the Chinese ambassador said: "I think all members will reflect on what lessons there are to be learned from this episode."

China distributed a draft statement at the start of the day calling the attack "apparently deliberate", echoing the wording of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, but this was immediately rejected by US ambassador John Bolton.

By the end of the day, the council was studying the third edited version of the draft which said only that "The Security Council condemns any deliberate attack against UN personnel and emphasizes that any such attacks are unacceptable." The US delegation did not approve this version either, according to diplomats....

"...Israel kept up attacks on the UN post despite high-level protests, Lute told the Security Council. The Khiam base used by the military observers had come under attack for six hours before the direct hit, she said.

Lute said protests were made to the Israel Defence Forces by UNIFIL and that she and Deputy UN Secretary General Mark Malloch Brown had called the Israeli mission to the United Nations to urge an end to the assault.

"...But Bolton insisted there was no indication that the UN post had been specifically targeted.

Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Wednesday called the Israeli attack a "terrible tragedy" but also speculated it was not deliberate."

Preliminary reports coming out of the UN indicate that Israel knew exactly where the UN observers were stationed and had been called repeatedly and asked not to launch missiles at the location but launched a guided missile anyway, which killed the observers as they were huddled in a bomb shelter.

The US is starting to sound like the petulant kid who's being told he has to go to cotillion class but refuses because he has two left feet. The one thing Congress can do for us is to not make John Bolton's appointment as Ambassador to the UN a permanent one.

Miulang

P.S. This is how China Daily reported on this event. And here is an obit of the Chinese UNIFIL observer who was killed at Khiam. The death of that soldier as caused one little 1-year old boy to be fatherless.

[admin]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Miulang, please be more conservative in the amount of content you reproduce from other sites, and ideally differentiate that content with quote tags from what you're personally contributing to the post.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

From the Jerusalem Post, on the vote taken today in the Knesset rejecting Lt. Gen. Dan Halut's recommendation to expand further into Lebanon to expand the buffer zone. Story also includes pictures of the 8 Israeli soldiers killed by Hezbollah the other day at Bint Jbiel.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Support growing for Hezbollah

As previously predicted, the longer Hezbollah can thumb its nose at the IDF, the more support it will gain from other Arabs. I truly believe that Israel is now in a no-win situation, with the only country in full support of its current actions being the US.

Now, with hundreds of Lebanese dead and Hezbollah holding out against the vaunted Israeli military for 15 days, the tide of public opinion across the Arab world is surging behind the organization, transforming the Shiite group’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, into a folk hero and forcing a change in official statements.

From the Saudi Arabian government:

“If the peace option is rejected due to the Israeli arrogance,” it said, “then only the war option remains, and no one knows the repercussions befalling the region, including wars and conflict that will spare no one, including those whose military power is now tempting them to play with fire.”

From Egypt:

Egypt’s opposition press has had a field day comparing Sheik Nasrallah to Nasser, while demonstrators waved pictures of both.

From Jordan:

A cartoon by Emad Hajjaj in Jordan labeled “The New Middle East” showed an Israeli tank sitting on a broken apartment house in the shape of the Arab world.

From Al Jazeera TV:

Mr. Zawahri tried to argue that the fight against American forces in Iraq paralleled what Hezbollah was doing, though he did not mention the organization by name. Mr. Zawahri also adopted some of the language of Hezbollah and Shiite Muslims in general. That was rather ironic, since previously in Iraq, Al Qaeda has labeled Shiites Muslim as infidels and claimed responsibility for some of the bloodier assaults on Shiite neighborhoods there.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

jUSt Lasting Piece: "Israel", Re: The Real War

Sometimes it seems like the smell of non-Zinazi corpses emanating from the Zionazi-inflicted rubble-ness of newly occupied, as well as newly re-occupied "Zionizt 'security-zones' ", courtesy U.S. Government, is seeping from "the news" .


Bush's/Rice's

"... A La$ting Piece.......whoops!! ,,, A Lasting Peace. A Last'long Bliss:No War Crimes indictments, and thereby no trials, no accountability, jUSt Lasting Piece: "Israel", or whatever the zionUSt claim is by US detemined to be worth the sacrifice of the United States' peoples and many other truly innocents of the moment."

[kamuelakea]

Re: Please Pray for Big Island Resident Sarah Ahmadia

But just as I did, kamuelakea, you will also choose to interpret her one posting (or selected parts thereof) through your personal lens. You have every right to do so.

You need an eye exam. You lenses stay busssup.

Israel is to Hezbollah as Canada is to Al Qaida. Beeg deef brah!

Only one side repeatedly intentionally targets and murders innocent civilians. Do I need to tell you what side it is Leo?

Funny, you guyz whine and cry about the folks who overthrew our Queen even though only 1 guy died. But with contemporary terrorists who say clearly they want to murder entire countries, you say "ah, well, you know, no like judge, eh? to each his own, whatevahz."

You know, Thurston Twigg-Smith calls those same guys who overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy citizen revolutionists. I guess you agree with Twigg-Smith that one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, eh?

Allah Akbar Gangee!

No one had any idea Israel would react the way it did.

Uhhhh, I think some of us have been amazed that the Israelis took so long to finally act. I think they have been unable to respond to the multiple Hezbollah murders because of the Iraq war for fear that any conflict could become regional or all our muslim vs. the West.

It was a win win for the terrorist dogs. If Israel's hands are still tied by the Iraq war, then they get a prisoner swap. If on the other hand Israel unleashes an attack, then Iran, Syria, Al Qaida, Hamas and Hezbollah call for an all out war with the west. See? Win win.

You are absolutely naive to say that you can travel to anywhere in the middle east today and claim that no one could have predicted chaos. Psst, let me give you a little tip in case you didn't know,.......shhhhhhhh....... you listening?............The Middle East is a caulderon of hate and intolerance with a 5000 year culture of endless war and death and destruction. When you choose to travel there, you should know you might end up on the wrong side of a missile, sword or bomb.

Come on, give me a break.

[timkona]

Re: Please Pray for Big Island Resident Sarah Ahmadia

Well Kamuelakea, we finally agree on some real good points that you have made.

1/2 of Americans are apologists for terror driven violence because their sense of right and wrong has been tragically skewed by modern liberalism.

Now Ms. Ahmadia will take her skewed perspective to her classroom, and poison the minds of youngsters with rhetoric that is rooted in a misunderstanding of the basic difference between right and wrong.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG. Do you get it?

If Lebanon cannot clean up their own yard, then they should shut their mouth about Israel's reaction.

PS - It strikes me as sadly ironic that her message will be delivered to a room full of kids who are being taught the benefits of race based decision making.