The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

that is pretty sanctimonious to be able to sit comfortably on this side of the planet and blow platitudes out of yer ass about right, wrong and a 'poisoned political agenda for an assumed audience' when you didn't have duck bombs on your family vacation.

Show some class, wish the girl a happy recovery from the scarring experiences she endured and say goodnight Gracie! Or at the very least, keep it from getting personal!

[kamuelakea]

Re: Please Pray for Big Island Resident Sarah Ahmadia

Well Kamuelakea, we finally agree on some real good points that you have made.

No worry brah, I going bring you around yet. Juss going take moah time and moah edgumakation.

Aloha

[kamuelakea]

Re: Please Pray for Big Island Resident Sarah Ahmadia

PS - It strikes me as sadly ironic that her message will be delivered to a room full of kids who are being taught the benefits of race based decision making.

This is where your brain short circuits. There is nothing RACE based about trying to save a unique country with unique culture, unique language, unique customs, who participated internationally and was recognized as a peaceful, independent soveriegn nation.

Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist (even though palestine was never a "country" in the sense that the Nation of Hawaii was a country.

And the Hawaiian nation, illegally overthrown, also has a right to exist.

It is not "Race" based. It is Nationality based. Hawaiians never voted to give up their Nationality.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Please Pray for Big Island Resident Sarah Ahmadia

It's just that World War III thing ... People who are more concerned with thread etiqette than WWIII

If you really believe the currrent conflict will trigger WWIII, spouting single-sided rhetoric will only fan the flames, rather than seeking a peace that will work for ALL parties.

Israel has a right to exist AND a right to self-defense, no argument there; Hezbollah is committed to eliminating Israel. But Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaida et al., are committed to the belief that Palestinians deserve a right to exist in a historical homeland of their own. The unconditional and unquestioning support the U.S. government provides to Israel keeps that goal from succeeding.

A not-so-simple question, though I wish it were: Why are Palestinians less entitled to a homeland than Israelis?

[waioli kai]

American Zionazi/zionUSts vs. non-American Zionazi/zionUSts , Re: The Real War

Pua'i Mana'o,
We need the spoken and written American Zionazi rhetorical deceits to better understand that mindset. Whether the person of that mindset is her/himself a militant/a weaponized fighter/a payrolled soldier, it doesn't matter, s/he is militarist. Being militarist American is to be militarUSt. Being pro-Zionazi, is to be zionUSt. Makes all who are not of their mindset be non-militarUSt/anti-militarUSt and non-zionUSt/anti-zionUSt.

Our young ballsy militarUSts are not of an unusually queer mindset in these militarist times. In fact, if we did not have any of these birds we would not have creatures for whom to make branches on which they may alight to crow their self-righteoUS irrationalities and nonsense about militarUSt-"goodne$$", zionUSt-"truth$.

Have some fun, make them a branch. Initially they have no shame and will alight as if they had or even could have made the branch themselves from which they crow with all the fervor of our nationalUSt master delUSioni$ts, as if they too have such freedom$ and choice$ as do the corporatUSt$, imperialUSt$ for whom they, our avian contributors, perform their zionauseoUS mantras of ideological obedience.

[waioli kai]

WW2 now Zionazi aggression in Palestine ? Re: The Real War

'

=kamuelakea] There is nothing RACE based about trying to save a unique country with unique culture, unique language, unique customs, who participated internationally and was recognized as a peaceful, independent soveriegn nation.

Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist (even though palestine was never a "country" in the sense that the Nation of Hawaii was a country.

And the Hawaiian nation, illegally overthrown, also has a right to exist.

It is not "Race" based. It is Nationality based. Hawaiians never voted to give up their Nationality.[

Whether Israel has a right to exist or not is not a question whose answer will, could ever, reside in rewarding six decades and more of Zionazi aggression in Palestine, and the Middle East, with "International recognition of Israel." It is Zionizts' zionUSt$ verses The World. Not to mean that it is WW3 any more than it is a continuation of WW2, following a chill for the major characters, subsequent some incredible rearming, realigning and posturing. USrael verses The World ... has a sweet ring to it,,,, or is that an odor? Starting with USraeli strewn non-USraeli corpses (some of which are USraeli-gathered together and or bulldozed, less odor, less evidence,,," God's will be done, the U.N. observers are evacuating --zionazi general peretz " from USraeli kill zones, witnesses to, survivors of, USraeli war crimes not allowed)in USraeli Occupied Palestine and USraeli Occupied Lebanon?

[waioli kai]

American Zionazi/zionUSts VS. American non-Zionazi/ Re: WW2 now Zionazi Palestine ?

American Zionazi/zionUSts vs. non-American Zionazi/zionUSts , Re: The Real War in above #170 post should read: American Zionazi/zionUSts vs. American non-Zionazi/non-zionUSts, American anti-Zionazi/anti-zionUSts.

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Hezbollah and Hamas have militaristic sides but they are also legitimate political parties in Palestine and Lebanon.

Hamas has lead Palestinians deeper into poverty and terrorism. And yes, the Palestinians voted for Hamas. They're stuck with what they chose - terrorism, murder, annihilation of Israel and Islamic fanaticism.

Should terrorists groups be called "legitimate government" if they're chosen by a landslide in an open and free election? Yes, of course. Should those terrorists and people who voted them into office be excused for choosing terrorism, murder, genocide? Hell no.

Since Syria has been a strong occupying force in Lebanon from the mid-70's, it's no wonder Hezbollah is everywhere. There are 23 seats in parliament occupied by the "Party of God" aka - Hizbullah - 2 hold cabinet positions.

Why would their people, in democratic elections that both Israel and the US sanctioned, have elected representatives from both factions otherwise?

Ask yourself that question, Miulang. The collective want for Islamism is the total destruction of Israel and Jews, and finally, the Western world.

I seriously doubt every single voter had an AK47 pointed at his/her head to coerce them into voting for these people. Military force doesn't accomplish anything but kill innocent people. Instead of trying to get rid of Hezbollah and Hamas, which will never happen unless you want another Holocaust because there are so many Arabs...

OMG! Not all Arabs are Hamas and Hezbollah! Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan had denounced the acts of Hamas and more recently (and impressively) Hezbollah. Although there's only so long they can oppose Hezbollah before they face civil unrest in their own countries.

...the world should be trying to accomplish things through political action.

I agree completely. Palestinians should have chosen statehood rather than terrorism. 1948, Camp David – that was "political action" - but Palestinians opted for terrorism.

As far as Lebanon, per UN Resolution 1559, Hezbollah was (is) supposed to disarm and leave Lebanon – and allow the Lebanese army take back control. Hezbollah stayed. So much for politics in the eyes of jihad.

How did Hezbollah become such a powerful voice for the people in South Beirut? Because the leaders were smart...they knew that if they helped their people, their people would look upon them favorably. Hezbollah has helped raise the standard of living of the poorest of the poor Arabs in Southern Beirut.

I don't understand it, Miulang, you have the answers staring at you from your own words, yet you continue to support Terrorist.

Deceit. Hezbollah, Syria, Iran have steel reigns on the Lebanese. They make the poor dependent on their so called charitable work, AND continue to suppress Lebanese freedom.

If Lebanon wanted to disarm Hezbollah it probably could...

How can a Lebanese army of 50,000 disarm an unknown number of Hezbollah? You seem to forget that Hezbollah is a terrorist group, more than not are "un-uniformed" and they are integrated within the Lebanese community, in other words - they live among the people.

...if it would just help the people of South Lebanon. So long as Hezbollah is termed a "terrorist" group...

Hizbullah IS a terrorist organization! No excuses.

...what incentive do they have to lay down their arms?

What is Hezbollah's motivation to murder innocent Israelis and Jews?
And don't feed me the bs oratory about how Jews and Israel never existed.

Particularly when you have the Zionists saying that they want to wipe Hezbollah off the face of the earth, much as Hezbollah has said that it wants to rid the world of Jews.

Zionists, you mean Israelis? Jews and non-Jews that believe in self-determination and their ancestral homeland? Zion is not a dirty word. If it was good enough for Bob Marley, then it's good to go for me - man.

Hezbollah is not a country, Hezbollah is not a race of people, it’s not a government – Hezbollah is a fanatical Islamic terrorist organization created by Iran, backed by Iran and Syria, that suppresses the freedom of the Lebanese people with its main objective to wipe Israel, Jews and eventually all Free Western Democracies (you and me) off the face of the earth.

Practically speaking, neither will accomplish this goal, so why not just get smart and do something constructive? Oh wait, I forgot. It's that "eye for an eye" thing, isn't it?

No, it's that "Genocide against Jews and Death To America" thing.

You want Israel, our only ally in the Middle-East, to give up and stop fighting for their lives and survival. . . what an agenda.

BTW: I have some very good friends who are Jews.

"Why, some of my best friends are Jews."
"And some of your other best friends are Methodists, but you never bother to say that."
"Gentleman's Agreement" great movie.

One "adopted" me and she became my Jewish Mama. I have no bones to pick with the peace loving Jews.

You can't be that close to her if you don't believe she has the right to self-determination and do believe that Hezbollah has the right to murder her and destroy her homeland.

You know, Adolph Hitler didn't have a problem with the "peace loving Jews" either. As long as they peacefully got onto the cattle-cars, and peacefully walked into gas chambers. Yeah, no problem. Otherwise they were shot on the spot, in the head, and more often than not, in front of thier families.

...we're now talking about the survival of the WHOLE world.

Exactly, and Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaida, Islamic fanatics, dictatorships, Iran, Syria… has brought this to our attention. Yet you say, we shouldn’t fight for our lives.

No, it's not propaganda. Look at any map and tell me where you see a country called "Israel". It just doesn't exist..

You’re right, it’s not just propaganda, it is denial and delusion too.

Israel was never called "Israel"? And never called Judea, Judah (root word being… Jew - Jew, a descendant of Israel - Israel the name given to Jacob by God)? You mean THAT Israel? Ancient Israel? The Israel that was never governed by King David, Solomon…?

Miulang, you're so deep in denial, you're drowning.

zoom-ZOOM-zoom...

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Aloha Levia, Did we meet? I'm Auntie Lynn. I like you.

Please stay awhile.

No offense anybody. I just like how she put it point blank!

Aloha Auntie Lynn, we haven't met officially - but it's a pleasure meeting you now. Thank you for the comment. You made me all happy inside! ...was nice. I'd love to drop in now and then, neat place to talk, yeah?

[Levia]

Re: Israel bomb kills 4 UN observers

Israel bomb kills 4 UN observers

On July 18, 2006, UNIFIL soldier, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener, wrote an e-mail to CTV:
"What I can tell you is this, we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing.
The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

He wrote that from the UN position it, gave view to the "Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base."
"It appears that the lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in our area," Maj. Kruedener wrote, saying it was too dangerous to venture out on patrols.
---

Yet the UN claims there was no Hezbollah activity near the site of the strike.

To date there have been nearly 260 UNIFIL deaths - what are they doing there? They have video taped and have been witness to crimes commited by Hezbollah, like the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, but they do nothing - until Israel is forced to defend itself. Then Kofi Annan goes all ALL up in arms, accuses Israel of this and that, before conducting any investigations at all.

Jenin, April 2002: After hearing false allegations against Israel regarding a "Jenin Massacre", Kofi Annan demanded that the U.N. Security Council take action against Israel saying, "Can the whole world be wrong?"

After conducting investigations, the U.N. found NO massacre. Annan apparently reacted to press speculation and never apologized for his hasty reaction.

Gaza, June 2006: "The Israeli claim that the beach blast was caused by an explosive charge at the site sounds strange to me," Kofi Annan

This was regarding the seven Palestinian family members that were killed when mines planted on the beach exploded. The mines were planted by Palestinians, a tactic used by Hamas.

Kofi Annan later retracted his remarks saying, "I responded to speculations in the press." But he never apologized for the accusations.

Now his latest hysterics - Khiam, July 2006: Kofi Annan is "shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN observer post in southern Lebanon."

Annan and the UN are completely ignoring the fact that Hezbollah has been using UNIFIL posts as shelters. Proof of it is in the email written by Maj. Hess-von Kruedener who was unfortunately killed. It is extremely irresponsible on the UN's part to keep their observers in South Lebanon during such warfare. Australia has the right idea and are yanking their soldiers the hell outa Dodge.


UNIFIL website:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/

[Levia]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Yes, please keep posting. It is refreshing to hear your point of view.

Hi. Wow. Some of you people nice, yeah? *head swells* Thought for sure I'd come back to this thread and see I got ripped a new okole-hole! Thank you *head gets caught in doorway*

[Levia]

Re: Support growing for Hezbollah

You see what kind of chaos this kind of hate filled talk causes?!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/...attle_shooting

Innocent Americans, innocent pregnant women, shot by an American Muslem. It's what you've been wishing for! You must be very happy.

[pzarquon]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

It was nice to imagine that there might be some contrasting opinions aired beyond those of Miulang and waioli kai and others (I admit to pretty much ignoring the various Bush, Iraq, and now Middle East threads because they're essentially repetitive and non-productive). And for simply having another view, I'm glad Levia's here.

But if Levia is going to be just as rhetorically over-the-top as anyone else, and say that people critical of Israel's current military initiative wanted someone to commit a random act of violence in Seattle, then I'm pretty confident that any debate will be as non-productive as before... and probably simply become more heated.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Levia, do you think that if Israel will ever treat all of its citizens equally, including granting full rights to all segments of its population, including

•allowing all citizens to serve in its army
•allowing all citizens to attend the same higher institutions of learning
•allowing all citizens to attend the same schools
•allowing all citizens who are born within Israel's borders to be treated as citizens, instead of assigning certain people as "immigrants" based on their ethnicity
•allowing all citizens to live where they want within that country

(at least they gave them the right to vote, which was quite noble of the government, considering we are talking it was the 1980s).

If we want to call them a democracy, how about that "taxation with equal representation" concept?

Maybe if Israel treated all of their citizens as Semites, or Sons of Abraham, or some other unifier, is it possible that they might finally solve their domestic problems? I have heard before that the government's treatment of its Israeli Arabs is parallel to apartheid, but no one wants to force Israel to deal with that issue.

This is human nature we are talking about. The rise of terrorism as an attractive enough alternative to the Israeli Arabs didn't occur in a bubble. The Israeli government needs to heal its population rifts, and that will start with them considering all of their citizens as Israeli citizens, with full and equal rights for all.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Levia: You still haven't answered the question of why, on any map pre-1948, there is no country labelled "Israel". Find me a map that shows that and I will become a believer.

Judaism and Israel are not the same as Zionism and Israel. If you look at who first created Zionism, you will see that Theodor Hertzl, was most definitely not even a religious person! He was a Hungarian journalist. He modeled Zionism after the German Burschenschaft movement to which he was exposed as a young man. The ideals of Burschenschaft were "honor, freedom, Fatherland". His primal work, "Der Judenstaat" was not a religious tome, but a journalistic description.

It has been said that its creation was prompted by Hertzl's outrage at the treatment of Jews during the Dreyfus Affair trial. Up until that point, Hertzl did not believe in anti-semitism.

If you want to talk about brainwashing, how many Israelis who are Zionists know how their "religion" evolved?

The Wiki definition of Zionism is that it is a POLITICAL movement, just like Hezbollah is a political movement. Zionism is NOT a religion, the way Judaism and Islam are religions. There is a vast difference between a religion and a political movement. A religion provides the cornerstones upon which a political movement can evolve.

This is what Wiki says about Judaism: "...The values and history of the Jewish people are a major part of the foundation of other Abrahamic religions such as Christianity, Islam, as well as Samaritanism and the Bahá'í Faith...." That's a pretty interesting statement: Judaism and Islam HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON! Wow! What a concept!


Miulang