The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

And what rights and freedoms have you lost? Any gay or adulterous people executed here for their sexual behavior? Anyone in America suffered genital mutiliation by government mandate recently? How about locked up for publishing a newspaper? Examples please. Your claim that we are losing our freedoms and that it is no different than what radical Islam would do is specious.

We are not quite as violent as the Middle East, mercifully, but here are some examples of our freedoms being given away:

You say you have some gay friends, well so do I. The other day, the Washington State Supreme Court once again affirmed that gays have no right to marry, which means that only in Massachusetts can gay couples be awarded the same legal rights as heterosexual couples, and then they have to be legal residents of Massachusetts to qualify for that right to marry.

Your phone calls and email transmissions may be monitored at any time by the government without due cause, as are your banking transactions.

You may be held in custody as a suspected terrorist without right to due process (Jose Padilla).

Larry Flynt, publisher of Hustler Magazine, has been imprisoned and harrassed several times for his publication.

Men have been chemically castrated for being sex offenders in some states.

Genital mutilation happens in certain cultures. It is an abhorrent, painful ritual (but then so is circumcision without bris, if you really think about it, and that's a pretty common operative procedure for non-Jewish boys). Female genital mutilation is a ritual practiced by African societies too, and as far as I know, they are not Arabic.

Numerous adulterous people have been killed by their aggrieved spouses (ever watch those crime shows?). Of course adultery in this country doesn't carry a death sentence, but that's because our laws are different from other countries.

I think part of the problem when you describe the things you do is you're taking them out of context. Of course, they do terrible things to people in Arab countries, but if those are their mores and folkways, isn't it up to THEM to change their mores and folkways? Must we always impose our own cultural peccadillos on others all the time? Just like when Mainland people move to Hawai'i and insist that the way they do things on the Mainland is the way people in Hawai'i should do things...that goes over like a lead (and very dead) balloon.

Miulang

P.S. I ditto Pua'i's sentiments. I've always admired Israel for its tenacity and certainly for its traditions and food. Right now I am disappointed that it has to take the 900 pound gorilla stance it is taking in Lebanon because I don't think anyone except the Jewish people believe that they will be wiped off the face of the earth by another culture. I doubt the world community would allow that to happen to Israel, just as I doubt any other country except Israel wishes to have Palestine disappear.

[waioli kai]

zionUSt paranoiacs, fishing for

=glossyp] "And what rights and freedoms have you (miulang) lost? .. Your claim that we are losing our freedoms and that it is no different than what radical Islam would do is specious." [

What would radical Islam do to you? You think radical Islamists are dying to get to you, dying to go to America in order to deprive you of your freedoms? That they don't like where they live and they want what you have? Get a grip!

Radical Islamists are not in your nation. You (those US for whom you apologize and align yourself) are in their nations, and they have had enough of your militarism, your imperialism, your assassinating their leaders, corrupting their governments, bombing and threatening to bomb their peoples.

What about radical Zionism, ever hear of that? What came first, radical Zionism (militarist pseudo-Judaism), or radical Islamism...in your knowledge bank?

] "The battle for Western civilization is being fought right now, today, in Israel and Lebanon. You may think that's overly dramatic but I don't." [

That's not overly dramatic, it's outrageous fallacy. US warring in the Middle East is ALL ABOUT the U.S. addiction to oil and manifesting Zionazirael in Palestine. Freedom and Democracy? Do you really believe that nauseous crap that flows from the BushCheney World of Oz ? Why, if it were a real cause for US actions in the Middle East, does such a high-minded ideal not inspire US to "free and democratize" the many even more desperate African nations? For years now the BushCheney corruptionists have invoked Freedom, Democracy, God, and Family to cloak their militarist madness....it's seems absolutely amazing that they continue to get away with it, until one realizes how deep is the well of ignorance from which they draw their believers.

[glossyp]

Re: zionUSt paranoiacs, fishing for

=glossyp] And what rights and freedoms have you (miulang) lost? Your claim that we are losing our freedoms and that it is no different than what radical Islam would do is specious. [

What would radical Islam do to you? You think radical Islamists are dying to get to you, dying to go to America in order to deprive you of your freedoms? That they don't like where they live and they want what you have? Get a grip!

Radical Islamists are not in your nation. You (those US for whom you apologize and align yourself) are in their nations, and they have had enough of your militarism, your imperialism, your assassinating their leaders, corrupting their governments, bombing and threatening to bomb their peoples.


What about radical Zionism, ever hear of that? What came first, radical Zionism (militarist pseudo-Judaism), or radical Islamism...in your knowledge bank?

Are you perchance a self-loathing Jewish person?

[glossyp]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

I think part of the problem when you describe the things you do is you're taking them out of context. Of course, they do terrible things to people in Arab countries, but if those are their mores and folkways, isn't it up to THEM to change their mores and folkways? Must we always impose our own cultural peccadillos on others all the time? Just like when Mainland people move to Hawai'i and insist that the way they do things on the Mainland is the way people in Hawai'i should do things...that goes over like a lead (and very dead) balloon.

Not out of context at all - what I state is that they wish to bring these mores and folkways (what a quaint phrase) to us. It is their wish to impose their 'cultural peccadillos' on us that concerns me. Frankly, we will never agree on this matter. You are of an old school thought pattern that we can all just get along if we try hard enough and give in - not unlike the Brits prior to getting their asses bombed by Hitler. I, on other hand, am a hopeless primitive that accepts the threats that are leveled at us by those who would dismantle a way of life that, while it is not perfect, is far better than anything else out there.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Not out of context at all - what I state is that they wish to bring these mores and folkways (what a quaint phrase) to us. It is their wish to impose their 'cultural peccadillos' on us that concerns me. Frankly, we will never agree on this matter. You are of an old school thought pattern that we can all just get along if we try hard enough and give in - not unlike the Brits prior to getting their asses bombed by Hitler. I, on other hand, am a hopeless primitive that accepts the threats that are leveled at us by those who would dismantle a way of life that, while it is not perfect, is far better than anything else out there.

Ah yes, that old "pre-emptive" mindset. The same mindset that got us into the quagmire that is Iraq. You're right, we'll never agree. But that's OK. As long as we don't stoop to name calling and can argue this on both sides for whatever it is, that's fine with me. And you don't think we're doing the same thing you accuse the infidels of trying to do? Why do we advocate and actively promote "regime changes" in other countries to spread democracy? And then when a country embraces the notion of democracy and tries to fashion their own version of it, why do we get so upset? Just because their brand of democracy isn't a carbon copy of ours? Isn't that a little hypocritical and presumptuous of us?

I personally would rather be a friend of both the Arabs and the Jews and not have to take sides. What I don't get is why we think what we have is so superior to what everybody else, who have cultures way older than ours, have. We just ARE, and they just ARE. If we were superior in all ways, why then (and you, as a health care professional know this), do we spend more per capita for health care than any other country in the world, and yet our health outcomes are like 9th best in the world?

Miulang

"“Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice.” Baruch Spinoza (1632 - 1677)

"Blessed are the peacekeepers, for they are the children of God."

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

The really sad part of all this is, at the very beginning of the conflict in July, most of the world was in agreement that Israel had a right to defend itself. Now as the conflict drags on and expands, Israel and the US are becoming increasingly isolated again from their European counterparts. This really is a sad time for world diplomacy.

...with the civilian death toll mounting and the scenes of devastation in Lebanon dominating television broadcasts and newspaper front pages across the globe, European leaders and citizens have become increasingly outraged.

...The backlash in the Middle East and the backlash in our own countries is worrying," said Pierre Moscovici, a vice president of the European Parliament. "We've got to be very careful with that."

...Analysts and some officials say the divide between the United States and Europe stems in part from different approaches to the conflict.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Additional information about the Seattle shootings. The man apparently was an American citizen of Pakistani descent "with a criminal record" whose family lives in Southeastern Washington (Pasco).

Miulang

[waioli kai]

USraelized Arab leaders

A mother fleeing USraeli bombings and shellings of Lebanon asks:

"Where are the Arab countries? Where are the Arab leaders?"

Where they are is:

---not withdrawing their monies from USraeli economy
---not cutting their oil supplies to USrael
---not wanting US to seize their monies in the U.S.
---not wanting to jeopardize deals for U.S. weapons and technology
---not wanting USrael to undermine their security
---wanting to forget that their brothers and sisters in Lebanon and Palestine are suffering IsrealHell for several generations, now as much as ever
--- not wanting to see IsrealHell's creation of fathomless hate and animosity, not only in the Arab and Moslem world, which will ensure that Zionizt IsrealHell will never know Peace, that USrael can never be trusted, that USrael has helped doom the United States to the waste basket of would-have-been, could-have-been greatness.
---wanting to avoid USraeli suspicions of their being anti-USraeli.

Whoever said, "Israel has pushed its self-destruct button" has made a good observation. Unfortunately or fortunately, Israel is taking US with it...would that it be sooner than later.

] "This really is a sad time for world diplomacy."[

Nothing wrong with world diplomacy. The wrongness lay with US (militarUSt, corporatUSt, zionUSt) of the United States, England and Israel whose leaderships, indeed the foundations of their existence and maintenance, shun diplomacy for militancy.

[glossyp]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Noted chef, author and host of 'No Reservations' Anthony Bourdain, was in Beirut to film an episode of the show when the war started. He writes about the experience for Salon.com. No kind words for State Dept/Embassy, lots of kind words for the Marines. Lots of sad things for the people of Lebanon. Watching Beirut die. You might have to sit through a commercial to read the article.

[Miulang]

More info on Seattle shootings

More info on Naveed Haq, the Muslim American shooter of the 6 women at the Jewish Federation Building. Apparently the dude was bipolar and a loner. The FBI has stated that there were no other people involved in the shooting, that it was the act of a lone gunman. With the exception of the woman who was killed, all the other 5 women are now not in life-threatening condition.

Miulang

[waioli kai]

USrael verses The World ,Re: jUSt Lasting Piece: "Israel", Re: The Real War

]"It is Zionizts' zionUSt$ verses The World . Not to mean that it is WW3 any more than it is a continuation of WW2, following a chill for the major characters, subsequent some incredible rearming, realigning and posturing."[

USrael verses The World ... has a sweet ring to it,,,, or is that an odor?

Starting with USraeli strewn non-USraeli corpses some of which are USraeli-gathered together and/or bulldozed: makes for less odor, less evidence,,, "God's Will be done, the U.N. observers are evacuating... "

from USraeli-kill-zones,

exhorts Zionazirael Occupation Forces' General Amir Peretz, while his senior, Chief Halutz is returning from his Dick Cheney moment of feeling and being heartless.

an odor of murdered witnesses to, would-be survivors of, USraeli war crimes not allowed in USraeli Occupied Palestine and USraeli Occupied Lebanon? And, like all US's marauders and murderers in non-, or not yet USraeli foreign lands, all the USraeli murdered identifiable pieces remaining are reported to be "militants"!! All for what? A lasting Piece of the Middle East for Zionazirael, or a lasting Piece for the Middle East of IsrealHell?

[waioli kai]

Zionazi think-tank timetables , Re: USrael verses The World ,Re: jUSt Lasting Piece:

...A La$ting Piece....

Bush: ''This is a moment of intense conflict ( no small thanks to US ) in the Middle East, yet our aim is to turn it into a moment of opportunity and a chance for broader change in the region. ''

More " moments of USraeli opportunities " for "broader 'change' " ;

'Missiles destroyed three buildings in the village of Kfar Jouz near the market town of Nabatiyeh, apparently targeting the apartment of a Hezbollah activist. A Jordanian was killed in a nearby house, and the blasts collapsed a shelter, killing a Lebanese husband and wife.

Three women were killed in strikes on their homes in other southern villages, security officials said. A wounded woman was rushed to the hospital in the village of Ain Arab, and more people were believed trapped in the debris of a destroyed building there.

An explosion, believed to be from Israeli artillery, hit a convoy evacuating villagers from Rmeish, lightly wounding a driver and a Lebanese cameraman for German TV news. Another strike hit a potato truck and a nearby car, wounding three ..." ^ttp://famulus.msnbc.com/famulusintl/ap07-28-150715.asp?reg=mideast&vts=72820061737

".... U.N. observers are evacuating..."from USraeli-kill-zones, exhorts Zionazirael Occupation Forces' General Amir Peretz, and so it is:

'On Israel's border with Lebanon, the United Nations decided to move 50 unarmed observers from their posts to the better-protected positions of 2,000 lightly armed U.N. peacekeepers after an Israeli bomb killed four observers this week.'

The most oft repeated zionUSt and Zionizt refrains concerning the previous (26JulyO6) day's USraeli annihilation of the Khayim U.N. outpost and its four U.N.personnel/observers/witnesses were:

zionUSt$ -- "Izreal would never do something like that deliberately. Izreal is beyond suspicion. We are one with IsrealHell!!"

Zionazi$ -- "Why would we do something like that? Give US a break!" Help US kill militant and non-militant anti-Zionizts, they must all die when they cannot be forced to accept US!!"

"The Israeli offensive began after Hezbollah guerrillas killed three soldiers and captured two others in a cross-border raid into Israel. The war with Hezbollah opened a second front for Israel, which was already battling Palestinians in Gaza after Hamas militants seized a soldier in a cross-border raid June 25."

Again, ad zionauseum , that Zionazi think-tank timetable, calendar of events that originates with captures of Zionazi Occupation Force soldiers along a Zionazi-determined "border". As if Zionauseous pronouncements of what is "Truth", what is "History", what is "Good", what is "Evil" are divine revelations, actionable intelligence sanctifying every Zionazi action and inaction.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Additional information about the Seattle shootings.

Note to Mel & Scrivener: this was the shooting happening about four blocks from my office Friday - the one I referred to in my postings on "that other board" as it was playing out.

[kamuelakea]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

Waioli Kai? You Hawaiian owah wat? You went public school owah wat?

I kanna follow da way U write bruddah. Kalamai. No wondah you suppot da terrorists. You get same kine edjumakation, eh?

Allah Akbar!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War

This may be the most heated thread I've ever read on HT.

Jesus would have loved the Palestinians.
Mohammed would have loved the Israelis.

Something has gone terribly wrong since they walked the earth.