The "Real" Middle Eastern War

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

re: the holy books and what they say about this/that, here is a great reference site:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.html

heheheheh. Mahalos for the links, Pua'i. Now somebody is gonna count up the number of citations about violence and cruelty in both the Bible and the Quran and come up with some bogus exhortation, like: "The ________is better than the _________ because the ________ has fewer references to cruelty and violence than _________". Eesh.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

It's really truly hard to believe that the Zionists in Israel are willing to risk a regional war in the Middle East to save 3 soldiers. Why is the UN Security Council not stepping in and telling Israel to stop the bombing? The Israeli air force is now dropping bombs very close to the Syria-Lebanon border ostensibly to prevent Hezbolla from transporting the captured soldiers to Iran and to keep Iran from shipping in supplies to rearm Hezbollah. Next, Israel will start dropping bombs on Syria, which will then force Iran to get involved. And then Egypt will have to do something. If we think our occupation of Iraq is bad, just wait until Israel decides to use nuclear warheads (which we have supplied to them) against countries which don't have that capability...and then see what Iran does. Israel is painting itself into a corner...it's fighting against both Hamas in the Palestine and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

The European Union is finally chiming in now on the conflict, saying that Israel's response to the capture of its soldiers is disproportionate in response to Hezbollah attacks on Israel.

"...“The European Union is greatly concerned about the disproportionate use of force by Israel in Lebanon in response to attacks by Hezbollah on Israel,” according to a statement issued by Finland, which holds the EU’s rotating presidency. “The presidency deplores the loss of civilian lives and the destruction of civilian infrastructure. The imposition of an air and sea blockade on Lebanon cannot be justified.”

"...In the EU’s strongest comment on the escalating violence, the statement said “actions, which are contrary to international humanitarian law, can only aggravate the vicious circle of violence and retribution, and cannot serve anyone’s legitimate security interests.”

It called for the immediate release of the Israeli soldiers, and urged “all countries in the region to work for the restoration of calm in order to avoid the further escalation of the situation into war.”...


In the meantime, while on his way to the G-8 conference in Germany, all our own President could say was that Israel had a right to defend itself. DUH. Every other leader has urged caution and talks to prevent further escalation, and all our President could say was that it was OK for Israel to defend itself??????

Miulang

[waioli kai]

Zionaziizm, in "defense" of Zionaziizm , Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

'

'--It's really truly hard to believe that the Zionists in Israel are willing to risk a regional war in the Middle East to save 3 soldiers.--m '

More realistically it is that there are all kinds of Zionists in Israel, just as there are all kinds of Zionists in the world. Surely there are Zionists in the world who are not militant, and, some of those non-militant Zionists/ non- as well as anti-Zionizt/anti-Zionazi, are not all that conviced that their God did indeed say that Palestine is His choice for Judaism's Zion. The father of Zionism himself harbored no dogma of absolutism that required Zion to be in Palestine either!

It is zionazi, radicalized Zionism, Zionizm's zealots like Sharon's successor Daniel Halutz who "are willing to risk a regional war in the Middle East (allegedly, wk) to save 3 soldiers " instead of releasing from extra-judicial, interminable imprisonment thousands of Palestinian civilians who bear only the blood of their own Zionizt-murdered family and community members on their hands.

--'Why is the UN Security Council not stepping in and telling Israel to stop the bombing?--'

American Zionazi, never confirmed by the U.S. Senate, John Bolton manages Security Concil paralysis like the Zionazi professional he is (though among some Israeli Zionazi Bolton is regarded to be lacking in zeal and initiative) : " ... Arab states presented a golden opportunity to --following the Bolton poisoning of the Arab initiative, have Bolton 'propose a resolution condemning Palestinian aggression and affirming Israel's right to self-defense'-- on Friday last week, when they instigated an emergency session of the Security Council, hoping for a resolution ordering Israel to end its Gaza operation. US Ambassador John Bolton blocked the council from acting..."

--'The Israeli air force is now dropping bombs very close to the Syria-Lebanon border ostensibly to prevent Hezbolla from transporting the captured soldiers to Iran and to keep Iran from shipping in supplies to rearm Hezbollah.'--

The twist CNN currently, and probaly FOX as well, has on "the captured soldiers" is 'the abducted", 'the kidnapped" soldiers. Remember when FOX, Krauthammer and US neocons atand at times others, latched onto zioniztcentric concept "homicide bombers" when refering to what all the rest of humanity was calling 'suicide bombers' ? And John McCain, a former true to life homicide-bomber, was running for President of the greatest homicide-bombing nation in history?

-- 'Next, Israel will start dropping bombs on Syria, which will then force Iran to get involved.-- '

Well, if the captured soldiers, whose lives Halutz's and Olmert's Israel is basically forfeiting by Israeli blockades, aggressions and war crimes, end up in Iran, or are even alleged to be there the restless CheneyBush Air Force is armed and ready for more Shock'nAwe in "defense" of Zionaziizm.

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

Here's an analysis of the real reasons for the violence between Israel and the Palestine.

"...Since ending the occupation is the one thing Israel is not willing to consider, the option promoted by the army is breaking the Palestinians by devastating brutal force. They should be starved, bombarded, terrorized with sonic booms for months, until they understand that rebelling is futile, and accepting prison life is their only hope for staying alive. Their elected political system, institutions and police should be destroyed. In Israel's vision, Gaza should be ruled by gangs collaborating with the prison wards.

The Israeli army is hungry for war. It would not let concerns for captive soldiers stand in its way. Since 2002 the army has argued that an “operation” along the lines of “Defensive Shield” in Jenin was also necessary in Gaza. Exactly a year ago, on 15 July (before the Disengagement), the army concentrated forces on the border of the Strip for an offensive of this scale on Gaza. But then the USA imposed a veto. Rice arrived for an emergency visit that was described as acrimonious and stormy, and the army was forced to back down (3). Now, the time has finally came. With the Islamophobia of the American Administration at a high point, it appears that the USA is prepared to authorize such an operation, on condition that it not provoke a global outcry with excessively-reported attacks on civilians.(4)

With the green light for the offensive given, the army's only concern is public image. Fishman reported this Tuesday that the army is worried that "what threatens to burry this huge military and diplomatic effort" is reports of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Hence, the army would take care to let some food into Gaza. (5) From this perspective, it is necessary to feed the Palestinians in Gaza so that it would be possible to continue to kill them undisturbed...."

Could the abduction of the Israeli soldiers just be an excuse for Israel's continued occupation of Palestine?

Miulang

[timkona]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

Puai Manao

That's the funniest web site of all time. Shows how crazy religion really is. What's really crazy is the way that people, over time, will switch religions, especially on the cultural level.

Hawaiians switched to Christianity. British switched cuz of King Henry. Many nations in far Europe are switching from Christianity to Islam. It's like a game of make-believe in a round.

I noted there were far more "violence-upon-others" themes in the Koran than in the Bible. I also tried to find a "convert or kill" reference in the Bible, and couldn't. The Koran is rife with "convert or kill", which imho, is the root of strife in the Islam-Terror connection.

The Koran clearly states that to be a good Muslim, you must kill the non-believers. I see a lot of Muslims who prefer peace, and therefore are NOT good practicing Muslims.

Mythology/Religion is so funny. And me, a secular conservative. Is that an oxymoron?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

Hawaiians switched to Christianity. British switched cuz of King Henry. Many nations in far Europe are switching from Christianity to Islam. It's like a game of make-believe in a round.

I stay one Atheist.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

That's the funniest web site of all time. Shows how crazy religion really is.

I enjoy the SAB and have it d/led on my palm. The indexed features, from the junk stuff to the good stuff, is worth its weight in gold, because one can get whatever they want out of those books--good and bad.

[waioli kai]

US blocks UN, Gaza resolution v Zionaziizm , Re: The Real Middle East

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-- " Why is the UN Security Council not stepping in and telling Israel to stop the bombing? " --

U.S. vetoes U.N. resolution on Gaza incursion
Opposition vote is first Security Council veto by U.S. in nearly 2 years

MSNBC News Services www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13165159/
Updated: 2 hours, 20 minutes ago
UNITED NATIONS - The United States cast the first U.N. Security Council veto in nearly two years Thursday, blocking an Arab-backed resolution that would have demanded Israel halt its military offensive in the Gaza Strip.

The draft, sponsored by Qatar, accused Israel of a "disproportionate use of force" that endangered Palestinian civilians, and demanded Israel withdraw its troops from Gaza.

The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, and four abstained.

. ...

The draft had been reworked repeatedly to address concerns that it was too biased against Israel. Language was added calling for the release of an abducted soldier and urging the Palestinians to stop firing rockets at Israel.

Nonetheless, U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said it was still unacceptable because it had been overtaken by events in the region — including the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah militants on Wednesday — and was "unbalanced."

_

[Miulang]

Some good and bad facts about Hezbollah

Even though our Administration paints Hezbollah as being all bad, it is doing some good for the people of Lebanon. Here are some basic FAQs on what Hezbollah is and what it's doing.

Miulang

[glossyp]

Re: Some good and bad facts about Hezbollah

Even though our Administration paints Hezbollah as being all bad, it is doing some good for the people of Lebanon. Here are some basic FAQs on what Hezbollah is and what it's doing.

Miulang

That makes me feel so much better. Out of 18 points including the elimination of Israel, numerous terrorist attacks, free run of Southern Lebanon and advocating fundamental Islamic rule, there is one positive.

[Miulang]

Re: Some good and bad facts about Hezbollah

That makes me feel so much better. Out of 18 points including the elimination of Israel, numerous terrorist attacks, free run of Southern Lebanon and advocating fundamental Islamic rule, there is one positive.

We don't live in Lebanon, and the people of Lebanon elected Hezbollah representatives to be in their government in a free election, so what does that tell you about the people? I'm more pissed at our President for siding with Israel and not trying to stop the violence while every other nation and the EU and UN are trying to calm both sides down. Also remember that the people of the Palestine freely elected their Hamas-led government.

"...White House spokesman Tony Snow said Bush made no promises to Siniora that he would try to persuade the staunch U.S. ally to scale back the military assault on Lebanon that has destroyed infrastructure and left dozens of civilians dead.

"The president is not going to make military decisions for Israel," Snow said.

News of the conversation came as the Pentagon was trying to figure out how to evacuate about 25,000 American citizens from Lebanon, military sources said. ..."


My main concern is for the safety and lives of about 25,000 Americans who are living in and around Beirut. Now that Israel has effectively put the Beirut airport out of commission by bombing all 3 airstrips and has wiped out many of the roads leading out of the country, our citizens will have big problems trying to leave Lebanon. The only way out may be by car to Cypress.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Next up for Israel...SYRIA!

Unless someone can calm Israel down, some analysts are predicting the next airstrikes will be directed at Syria.

"...The Israel Defense Forces is preparing for a major, sustained assault into southern Lebanon to eliminate the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah. The assault will extend at least to the Litani River -- the first natural barrier, roughly 20 miles into Lebanon -- and possibly all the way to areas south of Beirut. The advance might have been intended for July 16, when the reservists of the Israeli Northern Command who were just activated will have had 72 hours to spin up. However, since rockets fired from Lebanon hit Israel's port city of Haifa on July 13, Israel's 7th Armored, Golani and Barak Brigades -- some of the elite and most decorated units of the regular Israeli army -- might push ahead as far as the Litani and let the reservists catch up later.

If the IDF makes this push into Lebanon, the Golani Brigade likely will advance in the east, along the Syrian border to the Bekaa Valley. Its advance probably will be accompanied by air assaults delivering infantry units to the villages at the valley's base. Penetrating the more populated areas further up the valley will involve difficult, urban fighting...."


Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

The evacuation plans that have been announced for Americans in Beirut bring back the words of a friend of mine who was close friends with Charles Horman, the American citizen who was captured, tortured and murdered by Augosto Pinochet's regime in Chile in 1973. Charlie's family begged and pleaded with the US Embassy in Santiago to help find him, and the embassy refused. Later it was discovered that the Christians in Action may have had a hand in his disappearance. Several books and movies have since been made about Charlie's life and death.

Anyway, my friend Walter said that the American Embassies really don't do much to protect ordinary American citizens abroad; their main function is to serve as a conduit for business deals between the host country and the US. He said the last place you want to run to if you're in trouble abroad is the US embassy.

The first Americans out of Lebanon will be the embassy workers and their families. Everybody else has to figure out how to get out of Dodge on their own, or remain where they are and risk being injured by errant bombs or taken as hostages.

"...The U.S. State Department warned Americans from traveling to Lebanon and authorized embassy personnel in the country and their families to evacuate in the wake of ongoing Israeli attacks.
"The Department of State is concerned for the personal safety of American citizens due to the current security situation in Lebanon," it said in a statement....

"...The State Department warned that U.S. citizens inside Lebanon should "keep a low profile, varying times and routes for all required travel.

"Americans should also pay close attention to their personal security at locations where Westerners are generally known to congregate, and should avoid demonstrations and large gatherings."..

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: The "Real" Middle Eastern War...

Mahatma Ghandi said something very profound about retribution:

"An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind."

Archbishop Desmond Tutu also spoke of forgiveness when he wrote of his sorrow at the loss of life from the attacks on the World Trade Center in NYC. I think these words might also apply to the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East.

"...Is forgiveness possible at a national level? And if so, how can political leaders support that process?
A nation is made up of individual persons but it also has an ethos, a culture, a tradition, a corporate memory and identity, distinct from those individuals. A nation can do good, can triumph, can fail. A nation can be held accountable for a holocaust, and so a nation must remember national achievements of which it is proud. It must recall the things that make it hang its head in shame and perhaps be a little less arrogant as it recalls its own anguish, bewilderment, and impotence after September 11. It might then perhaps be led to think how others might have felt in Nagasaki and Hiroshima; how little girls running naked from napalm bombs were feeling; how those whose lands were devastated by smart bombs in Iraq felt. Or those in Nicaragua and the contras; or Chile after their President Allende was assassinated through the machinations of the CIA; or Angola and its civil war with a U.S.-backed Savimbi and Congo still reeling from the U.S.-sponsored assassination of its first Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba. And when it contemplates all of this, it will want to cry out to be forgiven and, in its turn, to want to forgive...."

Miulang