Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

Watada is a fool. As a former service member myself ( honorable discharge at end of service contract ) there are easier ways to get out of the military and sluff off your swore duty.

You are right about there being easier ways to get out of being deployed in a war you do not believe in,.... which gives validation to the fact that Watada was opposed to the war out of principle and not cowardice. You call that being foolish. I would characterize that as being courageous.

Fake being gay and you get a "other then honorible discharge" ( worse than general but better than the bad conduct discharge).

Not true. Servicemen and women who merely come out as homosexual and do not commit any other violation have been given the option of receiving article 15 honorable discharge. This was the case even before the DADT law was enacted in 1993.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

You just gotta love how all the BushCo lovers, whom supported the living hell out of being lied into a BS war that has taken thousands of lives, gravely wounded many more, and severly hobbled this country for decades to come, can't stand anything good that comes up from those ashes.

[Nords]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

I've been out of the loop for seven years, and Watada has pissed off a lot of people in a very special way that might earn some very special attention, but when I was sitting admin discharge boards it wasn't anywhere as bad as we might like to think:

Watada is a fool. As a former service member myself ( honorable discharge at end of service contract ) there are easier ways to get out of the military and sluff off your swore duty.

I think Watada wanted to set an example of a dedicated service member who refused to obey an illegal order. He erred, possibly through ignorance, in publicizing his position by impugning the chain of command. In fact I don't think he had good knowledge or advice until Eric Seitz parachuted in. So there's a lot for Watada to learn at law school.

Fake being gay and you get a "other then honorible discharge" ( worse than general but better than the bad conduct discharge) .

The absolute worst-case discharges I saw under en flagrante delicto, let alone any admissions of homosexuality, were general. Most were honorable, especially after the "don't ask don't tell" third clause of "don't pursue" caused the chain of command to avoid any possible basis for adverse publicity.

A few years ago the USNA Alumni Association received a request to establish a new alumni chapter called "USNA Out". The rationale was that the USNAAA already had chapters in every state & major city, plus a "recreational vehicle" chapter for those with no fixed address. The USNA Out group wanted to base their chapter on homosexual alumni. The exec board spent a very long time in legal reviews and evaluating the chapter charter & customs before feeling confident that they could "get away" with denying the charter. But shortly afterward they revised the charter rules to restrict them to geographic designations and avoid any "activity" or "affinity" charters.

Less informed sailors think getting busted for drugs is a good way out. That is if you want to go to NJP, get rank taken from you, perhaps spend a little time in confinement, and then get a Bad Conduct Discharge to brag about to future employers.

Failing urinalysis was a good way to lose special pay/programs (like the submarine force, SEALs, divers, or a security clearance) but even correctional custody was rare. Maybe an E-3 would get CC in hopes of getting the most out of a six-year enlistment, while an E-5 would get restriction barracks. I even knew an officer who failed urinalysis for cocaine. It cost him his submarine designation but only resulted in 60 days' restriction, which was served in his BOQ room. Then he was declared rehabilitated and not promoted while his obligated service was completed before being honorably discharged.

But after the user's NJP, the admin discharge board would rarely award anything worse than a general. An OTHD was just too hard to justify to the chain of command, let alone a Congressional inquiry. It was perceived to be "double jeopardy" and "piling on". OTHDs would be handed out to those who resisted arrest or who also had firearms violations or who were dealing. That was much less controversial.

And then there's Watada. Going for the court martial, going for the dishonorible. Makes the druggie way out look like a smart idea compared to Watada's plan.

For an officer it'd be a dismissal. But again I think it was never about getting out of the service as much as it was about serving on his own terms.

My nephew's on his third Middle East tour-- Afghanistan right after 9/11, Iraq for the Ranger pregame activities, and now Iraq again as a commissioned officer. He doesn't have much sympathy for Watada's approach.

[TuNnL]

Re: He's not a 'movement'...

As far as the media are concerned, they've failed miserably for at least a decade in their duties towards the public they should be bending over backwards to serve. So how they respond to this or any other matter is pointless.

Be that as it may, Honolulu Star-Bulletin columnist Cynthia Oi tells us how she really feels:

UNDER THE SUN
If Watada goes to jail, so should Bush lawyers

By Cynthia Oi

POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, May 10, 2009

...If Watada is to be held responsible for not obeying orders, so, too, should the men who, in a contortion of law, did bow to their bosses.

As secret memos and investigative reports are disclosed, it has become clear that the former president's lawyers — eager to please the White House and the Central Intelligence Agency — concocted spurious legal justification for the use of brutal interrogation techniques.

The harsh methods were necessary, in part, to come up with evidence linking Saddam Hussein to al-Qaida as grounds for attacking Iraq. None was ever found.

[Ron Whitfield]

I'm likin' it!

I'll bet she's cute too.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: I'm likin' it!

I'll bet she's cute too.

Click the link below for Cynthia's pic.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/200...torial/oi.html

[Ron Whitfield]

Here's another cutie pie...

Opinion piece that sums it up well - www.thenation.com/doc/20090601/brecher_smith?rel=hp_currently

[Leo Lakio]

End of story?

The Army is allowing the first commissioned officer to be court-martialed for refusing to go to Iraq to resign from the service, his attorney said Friday.
First Lt. Ehren Watada will be granted a discharge Friday "under other than honorable conditions," attorney Kenneth Kagan said.

source

Wish I had taken up Mike (nachodaddy) on his bet a couple years ago! (Nah, not really --- I had the pleasure of meeting him irl and we have broken bread together; I hope to see him again someday, as we've lost touch.)

[Ron Whitfield]

1st. Lt. Watada gets his freedom

The US Army has finally given up on castigating the Lt. for doing his duty as a soldier and good American. They've decided to give him some kind of "less than desirable conduct" release since being unable to find some harsher manner to punish and make an example of him in court.
Long overdue.

[Nords]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

I was surprised at the way the article described an officer's separation in terms of enlisted service. Maybe the rules have changed since I retired.

Officers generally resign, retire, administratively separate, or are dismissed. Watada probably submitted a "resignation for the good of the service" (I think he's done that more than once) or offered a resignation timed to the end of his obligated service. He's been in long enough that he could be administratively separated for failure to promote to O-3, and he probably offered the resignation to avoid the months of bureaucratic administrivia that would be required to separate him.

Unlike enlisted discharges, officer service is considered honorable unless they're dismissed. OTHD is a term applied to enlistment contracts, not officer commissions. He's never been convicted of any offenses (non-judicial punishment is protected by the Privacy Act) so there's no public record of anything other than honorable service. His DD214 is probably filled with administrative codes indicating that he shouldn't be considered eligible to join any other U.S. military service or National Guard, and certainly not the Army Reserve, but otherwise there won't be anything to indicate any issues. Heck, he could probably join the federal civil service if he chose to.

Even if he had been convicted and separated through Leavenworth, I doubt it would have made a difference in the civilian world. Hardly any civilians understand, let alone pay attention to, the characterization of military service discharges anymore.

[TuNnL]

Re: Iraq War Called Illegal by Lt. Watada - Chapter 2

I figured after all of this, Lt. Ehren Watada would pursue a law degree. Good for him. He’s already been personally involved in one of the greatest legal questions of our time. Unfortunately for anti-war activists, the case did not proceed all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, where Lt. Watada’s attorneys would have almost certainly tried to subpoena former President George W. Bush, and numerous other officials involved in the as-of-yet undeclared and ongoing war in Iraq.

P.S. Anyone know why this thread was moved to the “Melting Pot” section?